Suspected gunman dead after Colorado shooting spree

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The Catholic Church is not a pacifist denomination.
Do you view Jesus as a pacifist? I call what Jesus was very brave speaking out against injustices in our world. Jesus is my hero, and he never carried a gun…
 
Define “isn’t working.”

What would qualify as “working”? Then please provide a suitable example of something resembling “working” today. What are the qualifications, requirements of “working”? After decades of gun control, more laws and regulations than one could count, tell me how more regulation is going to fit into your idea of “working.”

You may indeed be sickened by the preference of others, but that in itself is not a reason to restrict the rights of others.
What gun control? Anyone with a drivers license and a clean criminal record can buy a gun. Well there’s a lot of people who fit that but shouldn’t have a gun. Many of them are the front people who buy guns and then turn around and sell them illegally.

The Clinton administration brought in more police into the big cities and that helped. The regulations of gun laws don’t go far enough, I’ve explained some of the problems with them, it’s not my fault that you’ don’t see that…

The guns that are being sold are way too ‘big and bad’ for their needs, when they get into the wrong hands they can do a lot of damage, such as the case of this Colorado Springs shooter. But that has a lot to do with the Bush Administration repealing gun laws. Heck, Bush himself shot someone on accident. Bush did a lot of things to set us back with regards to gun laws.

Concealed and Carry has done nothing to bring down homicide rates. In fact, it’s just made police more jittery about pulling someone over.
 
Yes! Why don’t you!
When did I stereotype? I really don’t like people stereotyping police because they put themselves in harms way every day and don’t need that on their shoulders.
 
There is clearly a break down in norms of society. Should we revert to the Old West wear everyone wears a gun? To the argument that if everyone was armed such as in mass killings in Roseburg, OR, then these mass shootings wouldn’t occur. Oh really? How many gun totting citizens wouldn’t cause greater carnage by hitting others in a cross fire situation? I can imagine a shooter in close quarter classroom the only one standing while the rest of the students are shot dead from the crossfire. It takes considerable skill, precision, accuracy and self control not to shoot innocent bystanders.

Shooting in Oregon: So far in 2015, we’ve had 274 days and 294 mass shootings
Today a shooter opened fire at a community college in Oregon. Early media reports indicate numerous fatalities and a number of additional people wounded. That brings the total of mass shootings this year – incidents where four or more people are killed or injured by gunfire – to 294.

Even as I write this, we had another campus shooting
Shooting at North Carolina’s Winston-Salem State University leaves one dead
The university said a suspected gunman was on the loose and visitors to the campus were urged to be cautious and stay away from restricted areas.


Amazon reviews hijacked by causes, conspiracies, rage

Organized groups are using the Amazon review system to push political and social agendas often only tangentially related to the products being sold.

What is really evil about all this is the fact that one of the mother’s that lost her 6 year old son at Sandy Hook Elementary when 20 students were massacre is being ‘targeted’ by right wing conspiratorialists on the theory that the Sandy Hook shootings were a hoax, perpetuated by the government to push for tougher gun-control laws. These people are very sick indeed and to know they are in possession of firearms makes one shudder for future of this country.
 
=sps49;13404781]Oh my, the all-caps again. I can see how you could see it that way, especially since you apparently don’t bother to read what I write.
In that case, it’s time to be elsewhere!

:egyptian:
The only thing that I can think of that I don’t acknowledge, are your activist claims. Guns are indeed dangerous, as are many other tools in our civilization. What I don’t believe in is subsidizing my moral responsibility via poorly thought out laws, which result in more knee jerk poorly thought out laws, ad infinitum.
:clapping:
 
There is clearly a break down in norms of society. Should we revert to the Old West wear everyone wears a gun? To the argument that if everyone was armed such as in mass killings in Roseburg, OR, then these mass shootings wouldn’t occur. Oh really? How many gun totting citizens wouldn’t cause greater carnage by hitting others in a cross fire situation? I can imagine a shooter in close quarter classroom the only one standing while the rest of the students are shot dead from the crossfire. It takes considerable skill, precision, accuracy and self control not to shoot innocent bystanders.

Shooting in Oregon: So far in 2015, we’ve had 274 days and 294 mass shootings
Today a shooter opened fire at a community college in Oregon. Early media reports indicate numerous fatalities and a number of additional people wounded. That brings the total of mass shootings this year – incidents where four or more people are killed or injured by gunfire – to 294.

Even as I write this, we had another campus shooting
Shooting at North Carolina’s Winston-Salem State University leaves one dead
The university said a suspected gunman was on the loose and visitors to the campus were urged to be cautious and stay away from restricted areas.


Amazon reviews hijacked by causes, conspiracies, rage

Organized groups are using the Amazon review system to push political and social agendas often only tangentially related to the products being sold.

What is really evil about all this is the fact that one of the mother’s that lost her 6 year old son at Sandy Hook Elementary when 20 students were massacre is being ‘targeted’ by right wing conspiratorialists on the theory that the Sandy Hook shootings were a hoax, perpetuated by the government to push for tougher gun-control laws. These people are very sick indeed and to know they are in possession of firearms makes one shudder for future of this country.
Most of those shootings have occurred in gun free zones.

So what are guns doing in gun-free zones?

Also, there’s no right wing conspiracies on here.
 
Are you saying the Brady Bill didn’t help?
Yes. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Do you even know what was in the Brady Bill?
Do you view Jesus as a pacifist? I call what Jesus was very brave speaking out against injustices in our world. Jesus is my hero, and he never carried a gun…
Do you think the temple moneychangers viewed Jesus as a pacifist? He may not have carried a gun, them not having been invented yet, but he did swing a mean whip. And Jesus wasn’t even defending himself in that instance, he started it.
There is clearly a break down in norms of society. Should we revert to the Old West wear everyone wears a gun? To the argument that if everyone was armed such as in mass killings in Roseburg, OR, then these mass shootings wouldn’t occur. Oh really? How many gun totting citizens wouldn’t cause greater carnage by hitting others in a cross fire situation? I can imagine a shooter in close quarter classroom the only one standing while the rest of the students are shot dead from the crossfire. It takes considerable skill, precision, accuracy and self control not to shoot innocent bystanders.
Typically, these mass killing occur in “gun free” zones, where the criminal is the only one likely to be armed. I’ve never heard of one happening at a gun show or an NRA convention, or even a police station. Have you? The majority of the states in the US are “shall issue” states, which means getting a carry permit means passing a background check and taking a safety class (in Florida, it is a two hour video the gun shop offers). Where’s the greater carnage? I lived in Texas and Florida when they were debating changing the gun laws. Every gun control advocate warned that the states would turn into Dodge City, where every minor traffic altercation ended in gunfire. Didn’t happen. Why should anybody listen to your side when it’s never been right?
What is really evil about all this is the fact that one of the mother’s that lost her 6 year old son at Sandy Hook Elementary when 20 students were massacre is being ‘targeted’ by right wing conspiratorialists on the theory that the Sandy Hook shootings were a hoax, perpetuated by the government to push for tougher gun-control laws. These people are very sick indeed and to know they are in possession of firearms makes one shudder for future of this country.
Who is claiming that Sandy Hook was a hoax? I remember a lot of prominent people claiming that 9/11 was an elaborate hoax, but I’m not aware of any claiming the same for Sandy Hook.
 
What gun control? Anyone with a drivers license and a clean criminal record can buy a gun. Well there’s a lot of people who fit that but shouldn’t have a gun. Many of them are the front people who buy guns and then turn around and sell them illegally.

The Clinton administration brought in more police into the big cities and that helped. The regulations of gun laws don’t go far enough, I’ve explained some of the problems with them, it’s not my fault that you’ don’t see that…

The guns that are being sold are way too ‘big and bad’ for their needs, when they get into the wrong hands they can do a lot of damage, such as the case of this Colorado Springs shooter. But that has a lot to do with the Bush Administration repealing gun laws. Heck, Bush himself shot someone on accident. Bush did a lot of things to set us back with regards to gun laws.

Concealed and Carry has done nothing to bring down homicide rates. In fact, it’s just made police more jittery about pulling someone over.
“What gun control?” Really? Try this:

atf.gov/file/11241/download

2014 Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide

237 pages of regulations for starters. In addition, each state has their own firearm laws you can look up. To say there is no gun control is ludicrous, because clearly there are. What there are not, are laws to your liking. From what I’ve heard from you on this so far, is that all guns are too “big and bad” to be trusted to law abiding citizens. We have a difference of opinion, and the difference is that you would prefer to hold law abiding citizens in suspicion, while I prefer not to.
 
Random shootings are a very difficult crime to police against, or even defend against.

There just seem to be an never ending line of individuals who consider that people are so universally malevolent that it is okay to randomly kill them.
 
Who is claiming that Sandy Hook was a hoax? I remember a lot of prominent people claiming that 9/11 was an elaborate hoax, but I’m not aware of any claiming the same for Sandy Hook.
Oh yes, there are thousands of sites devoted to this very things, just google ‘sandy hook was a hoax’ and take a look at all the sites and various information about it!!!

Virtually any major attack, there are some who think it was a hoax, you can google just about any past attack and there will be many many sites devoted to proving the hoax.

This stems from a distrust of Govt, LE and authority in general, of course, it doesnt help when Govt has actually been proven to do such things in the past, like when the CIA experimented on the unknowing public with dangerous drugs and other things. I was surprised when I read about some past conspiracies that turned out to be true!!

But I do not think sandy hook was a hoax. I tend to think if the Govt actually did something like this, there would be NO evidence of it, and I mean NOTHING.
 
It is… if there are guns guns guns… they end up in the wrong hands…It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with the ease of accessibility of firearms.
Places like Chicago have very strict firearms laws. So, it has everything to do with the laws that do not appear to be working.
 
Which area is more populated with people living in poverty Colorado Springs or Chicago? It’s like comparing apples with oranges…
So you are blaming it on poverty, well, then gun laws won’t do any good.
 
Random shootings are a very difficult crime to police against, or even defend against.

There just seem to be an never ending line of individuals who consider that people are so universally malevolent that it is okay to randomly kill them.
It’s possible to greatly reduce them, but it would involve unpopular tactics, such as fixing irresponsible US gun regulations to be on par with, say, central Europe (Britain’s phobic extremism is unnecessary, and central Europe is safer than Britain). Censor their identity to get depressed mass murderers out of the digital coliseum of fame & glory in their bloodbath… That’s possibly even more unpopular than the first one. Improve the mental health system. Those three could go a long way.

The first one limits their access.
The second one limits their incentive.
The third one limits their brutality.
 
I’d rather be protected by a policeman who has the authority to defend me than some doopa on the street who thinks he knows all there is about guns, and how and when to use them.
I am very sorry for not understanding you but what is a ‘doopa’? Is that a person who defends herself with her own firearm?
 
That isn’t an argument against gun control that’s an argument FOR gun control.
Actually that’s just a fact. You could build an argument out of it for gun control if you like, but by itself it is merely a proposition.
 
**
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

After a decision by the Supreme Court affirming the right of individuals to own guns, then-Chicago Mayor Richard Daley sarcastically said, “Then why don’t we do away with the court system and go back to the Old West, you have a gun and I have a gun and we’ll settle it in the streets?” This is a common refrain heard in the gun debate. Gun control advocates fear – and gun rights proponents sometimes hope – the Second Amendment will transform our cities into modern-day versions of Dodge.

Yet this is all based on a widely shared misunderstanding of the Wild West. Frontier towns – places like Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge – actually had the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation.

In fact, many of those same cities have far less burdensome gun control today then they did back in the 1800s.

Guns were obviously widespread on the frontier. Out in the untamed wilderness, you needed a gun to be safe from bandits, natives, and wildlife. In the cities and towns of the West, however, the law often prohibited people from toting their guns around. A visitor arriving in Wichita, Kansas in 1873, the heart of the Wild West era, would have seen signs declaring, “Leave Your Revolvers At Police Headquarters, and Get a Check.”

A check? That’s right. When you entered a frontier town, you were legally required to leave your guns at the stables on the outskirts of town or drop them off with the sheriff, who would give you a token in exchange. You checked your guns then like you’d check your overcoat today at a Boston restaurant in winter. Visitors were welcome, but their guns were not.

In my new book, Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America, there’s a photograph taken in Dodge City in 1879. Everything looks exactly as you’d imagine: wide, dusty road; clapboard and brick buildings; horse ties in front of the saloon. Yet right in the middle of the street is something you’d never expect. There’s a huge wooden billboard announcing, “The Carrying of Firearms Strictly Prohibited.”

While people were allowed to have guns at home for self-protection, frontier towns usually barred anyone but law enforcement from carrying guns in public.

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. They declared that “any person or persons found carrying concealed weapons in the city of Dodge or violating the laws of the State shall be dealt with according to law.” Many frontier towns, including Tombstone, Arizona–the site of the infamous “Shootout at the OK Corral”–also barred the carrying of guns openly.

Today in Tombstone, you don’t even need a permit to carry around a firearm. Gun rights advocates are pushing lawmakers in state after state to do away with nearly all limits on the ability of people to have guns in public.

Like any law regulating things that are small and easy to conceal, the gun control of the Wild West wasn’t always perfectly enforced. But statistics show that, next to drunk and disorderly conduct, the most common cause of arrest was illegally carrying a firearm. Sheriffs and marshals took gun control seriously.

Although some in the gun community insist that more guns equals less crime, in the Wild West they discovered that gun control can work. Gun violence in these towns was far more rare than we commonly imagine. Historians who’ve studied the numbers have determined that frontier towns averaged less than two murders a year. Granted, the population of these towns was small. Nevertheless, these were not places where duels at high noon were commonplace. In fact, they almost never occurred.

Why is our image of the Wild West so wrong? Largely for the same reason these towns adopted gun control laws in the first place: economic development. Residents wanted limits on guns in public because they wanted to attract businesspeople and civilized folk. What prospective storeowner was going to move to Deadwood if he was likely to be robbed when he brought his daily earnings to the bank?

Once the frontier was closed, those same towns glorified a supposedly violent past in order to attract tourists and the businesses to serve them. Gunfights were extremely rare in frontier towns, but these days you can see a reenactment of the one at the OK Corral several times a day. Don’t forget to buy a souvenir!

The story of guns in America is far more complex and surprising than we’ve often been led to believe. We’ve always had a right to bear arms, but we’ve also always had gun control. Even in the Wild West, Americans balanced these two and enacted laws restricting guns in order to promote public safety. Why should it be so hard to do the same today?**

Back then they used common sense and weren’t brainwashed by no NRA
 
Oh yes, there are thousands of sites devoted to this very things, just google ‘sandy hook was a hoax’ and take a look at all the sites and various information about it!!!

Virtually any major attack, there are some who think it was a hoax, you can google just about any past attack and there will be many many sites devoted to proving the hoax.

This stems from a distrust of Govt, LE and authority in general, of course, it doesnt help when Govt has actually been proven to do such things in the past, like when the CIA experimented on the unknowing public with dangerous drugs and other things. I was surprised when I read about some past conspiracies that turned out to be true!!

But I do not think sandy hook was a hoax. I tend to think if the Govt actually did something like this, there would be NO evidence of it, and I mean NOTHING.
But who are the prominent people, not the denizens of the webs deepest fever swamps? I remember Rosie O’Donnell, Charlie Sheen, and a prominent Japanese politician (washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/07/AR2010030702354.html) entertaining the “9/11 is a hoax” conspiracy theories. Who are the equivalent people claiming Sandy Hook is a hoax?
 
**
Although some in the gun community insist that more guns equals less crime, in the Wild West they discovered that gun control can work. Gun violence in these towns was far more rare than we commonly imagine. Historians who’ve studied the numbers have determined that frontier towns averaged less than two murders a year. Granted, the population of these towns was small. Nevertheless, these were not places where duels at high noon were commonplace. In fact, they almost never occurred.

**

Gun violence is rare now, even with the majority of the US states having liberal gun laws. In fact, some of the places with the worst gun violence have some of the strictest gun laws.
 
If an editorial is posted, we need to be careful to fully attribute the article to a website and possibly the author. At least a link.

huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/did-the-wild-west-have-mo_b_956035.html
**
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

After a decision by the Supreme Court affirming the right of individuals to own guns, then-Chicago Mayor Richard Daley sarcastically said, “Then why don’t we do away with the court system and go back to the Old West, you have a gun and I have a gun and we’ll settle it in the streets?” This is a common refrain heard in the gun debate. Gun control advocates fear – and gun rights proponents sometimes hope – the Second Amendment will transform our cities into modern-day versions of Dodge.

Yet this is all based on a widely shared misunderstanding of the Wild West. Frontier towns – places like Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge – actually had the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation.

In fact, many of those same cities have far less burdensome gun control today then they did back in the 1800s.

Guns were obviously widespread on the frontier. Out in the untamed wilderness, you needed a gun to be safe from bandits, natives, and wildlife. In the cities and towns of the West, however, the law often prohibited people from toting their guns around. A visitor arriving in Wichita, Kansas in 1873, the heart of the Wild West era, would have seen signs declaring, “Leave Your Revolvers At Police Headquarters, and Get a Check.”

A check? That’s right. When you entered a frontier town, you were legally required to leave your guns at the stables on the outskirts of town or drop them off with the sheriff, who would give you a token in exchange. You checked your guns then like you’d check your overcoat today at a Boston restaurant in winter. Visitors were welcome, but their guns were not.

In my new book, Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America, there’s a photograph taken in Dodge City in 1879. Everything looks exactly as you’d imagine: wide, dusty road; clapboard and brick buildings; horse ties in front of the saloon. Yet right in the middle of the street is something you’d never expect. There’s a huge wooden billboard announcing, “The Carrying of Firearms Strictly Prohibited.”

While people were allowed to have guns at home for self-protection, frontier towns usually barred anyone but law enforcement from carrying guns in public.

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. They declared that “any person or persons found carrying concealed weapons in the city of Dodge or violating the laws of the State shall be dealt with according to law.” Many frontier towns, including Tombstone, Arizona–the site of the infamous “Shootout at the OK Corral”–also barred the carrying of guns openly.

Today in Tombstone, you don’t even need a permit to carry around a firearm. Gun rights advocates are pushing lawmakers in state after state to do away with nearly all limits on the ability of people to have guns in public.

Like any law regulating things that are small and easy to conceal, the gun control of the Wild West wasn’t always perfectly enforced. But statistics show that, next to drunk and disorderly conduct, the most common cause of arrest was illegally carrying a firearm. Sheriffs and marshals took gun control seriously.

Although some in the gun community insist that more guns equals less crime, in the Wild West they discovered that gun control can work. Gun violence in these towns was far more rare than we commonly imagine. Historians who’ve studied the numbers have determined that frontier towns averaged less than two murders a year. Granted, the population of these towns was small. Nevertheless, these were not places where duels at high noon were commonplace. In fact, they almost never occurred.

Why is our image of the Wild West so wrong? Largely for the same reason these towns adopted gun control laws in the first place: economic development. Residents wanted limits on guns in public because they wanted to attract businesspeople and civilized folk. What prospective storeowner was going to move to Deadwood if he was likely to be robbed when he brought his daily earnings to the bank?

Once the frontier was closed, those same towns glorified a supposedly violent past in order to attract tourists and the businesses to serve them. Gunfights were extremely rare in frontier towns, but these days you can see a reenactment of the one at the OK Corral several times a day. Don’t forget to buy a souvenir!

The story of guns in America is far more complex and surprising than we’ve often been led to believe. We’ve always had a right to bear arms, but we’ve also always had gun control. Even in the Wild West, Americans balanced these two and enacted laws restricting guns in order to promote public safety. Why should it be so hard to do the same today?**

Back then they used common sense and weren’t brainwashed by no NRA
 
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