Suspected gunman dead after Colorado shooting spree

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Yes. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Do you even know what was in the Brady Bill?

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The 5 day waiting period and background checks required by the Brady bill has kept guns out of the wrong hands.

Heres one article about it.

smartgunlaws.org/effectiveness-brady-actbackground-checks/
An excerpt from the article…

Statistics reported by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence confirm that background checks work and have had a significant positive impact on national crime rates. Before the Brady law was enacted, America’s gun homicide rate was on a dramatic rise, increasing by 55 percent from 1984 to 1993 even as non-gun homicides were falling over this period.4 After Brady background checks were required, however, gun murders began to steadily decline and ultimately fell by 32 percent from 1993 to 2006.5 The rate of robberies and aggravated assaults committed with firearms also decreased by 42 percent over this period.6

nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html

From MSNBC… msnbc.com/msnbc/anniversaryas-anni-brady-bill-looms…This month marks the 20th anniversary of the bill’s signing, and while there is much to applaud about the bill’s impact—more than 2 million gun purchases, many of them by felons and fugitives, have been blocked, gun-safety advocates say —another important piece of gun legislation is set to disappear.

And the bill expired…
 
Do you think the temple moneychangers viewed Jesus as a pacifist? He may not have carried a gun, them not having been invented yet, but he did swing a mean whip. And Jesus wasn’t even defending himself in that instance, he started it.
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I didn’t say He was a pacifist someone else did but Jesus didn’t hurt any people and He certainly didn’t shoot anyone…
 
“What gun control?” Really? Try this:

atf.gov/file/11241/download

2014 Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide

237 pages of regulations for starters. In addition, each state has their own firearm laws you can look up. To say there is no gun control is ludicrous, because clearly there are. What there are not, are laws to your liking. From what I’ve heard from you on this so far, is that all guns are too “big and bad” to be trusted to law abiding citizens. We have a difference of opinion, and the difference is that you would prefer to hold law abiding citizens in suspicion, while I prefer not to.
I asked what gun control and mentioned what a person needs to obtain a FOID. That manual is for gun dealers and for people who want special guns, etc. Basically all one needs for a gun is a drivers license and a background check and money. Your suggesting to take all the suspicion off of a person coming in to buy a gun and there’s a problem with that. Sellers should always be wary of putting guns in the wrong hands if they’re concerned for the common good, but they’re not, they are in it for the money.
 
**
Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?

After a decision by the Supreme Court affirming the right of individuals to own guns, then-Chicago Mayor Richard Daley sarcastically said, “Then why don’t we do away with the court system and go back to the Old West, you have a gun and I have a gun and we’ll settle it in the streets?” This is a common refrain heard in the gun debate. Gun control advocates fear – and gun rights proponents sometimes hope – the Second Amendment will transform our cities into modern-day versions of Dodge.

Yet this is all based on a widely shared misunderstanding of the Wild West. Frontier towns – places like Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge – actually had the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation.

In fact, many of those same cities have far less burdensome gun control today then they did back in the 1800s.

Guns were obviously widespread on the frontier. Out in the untamed wilderness, you needed a gun to be safe from bandits, natives, and wildlife. In the cities and towns of the West, however, the law often prohibited people from toting their guns around. A visitor arriving in Wichita, Kansas in 1873, the heart of the Wild West era, would have seen signs declaring, “Leave Your Revolvers At Police Headquarters, and Get a Check.”

A check? That’s right. When you entered a frontier town, you were legally required to leave your guns at the stables on the outskirts of town or drop them off with the sheriff, who would give you a token in exchange. You checked your guns then like you’d check your overcoat today at a Boston restaurant in winter. Visitors were welcome, but their guns were not.

In my new book, Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America, there’s a photograph taken in Dodge City in 1879. Everything looks exactly as you’d imagine: wide, dusty road; clapboard and brick buildings; horse ties in front of the saloon. Yet right in the middle of the street is something you’d never expect. There’s a huge wooden billboard announcing, “The Carrying of Firearms Strictly Prohibited.”

While people were allowed to have guns at home for self-protection, frontier towns usually barred anyone but law enforcement from carrying guns in public.

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. They declared that “any person or persons found carrying concealed weapons in the city of Dodge or violating the laws of the State shall be dealt with according to law.” Many frontier towns, including Tombstone, Arizona–the site of the infamous “Shootout at the OK Corral”–also barred the carrying of guns openly.

Today in Tombstone, you don’t even need a permit to carry around a firearm. Gun rights advocates are pushing lawmakers in state after state to do away with nearly all limits on the ability of people to have guns in public.

Like any law regulating things that are small and easy to conceal, the gun control of the Wild West wasn’t always perfectly enforced. But statistics show that, next to drunk and disorderly conduct, the most common cause of arrest was illegally carrying a firearm. Sheriffs and marshals took gun control seriously.

Although some in the gun community insist that more guns equals less crime, in the Wild West they discovered that gun control can work. Gun violence in these towns was far more rare than we commonly imagine. Historians who’ve studied the numbers have determined that frontier towns averaged less than two murders a year. Granted, the population of these towns was small. Nevertheless, these were not places where duels at high noon were commonplace. In fact, they almost never occurred.

Why is our image of the Wild West so wrong? Largely for the same reason these towns adopted gun control laws in the first place: economic development. Residents wanted limits on guns in public because they wanted to attract businesspeople and civilized folk. What prospective storeowner was going to move to Deadwood if he was likely to be robbed when he brought his daily earnings to the bank?

Once the frontier was closed, those same towns glorified a supposedly violent past in order to attract tourists and the businesses to serve them. Gunfights were extremely rare in frontier towns, but these days you can see a reenactment of the one at the OK Corral several times a day. Don’t forget to buy a souvenir!

The story of guns in America is far more complex and surprising than we’ve often been led to believe. We’ve always had a right to bear arms, but we’ve also always had gun control. Even in the Wild West, Americans balanced these two and enacted laws restricting guns in order to promote public safety. Why should it be so hard to do the same today?**

Back then they used common sense and weren’t brainwashed by no NRA
:clapping:
 
Gun violence is rare now, even with the majority of the US states having liberal gun laws. In fact, some of the places with the worst gun violence have some of the strictest gun laws.
Rare? If its so rare why is it mentioned every day in the paper. In fact why is the CDC being banned from studying gun violence? Here’s an article on that.

businessinsider.com/congressional-ban-on-gun-violence-research-rewnewed-2015-7

From the article: CDC data has indicated that guns will kill more Americans under 25 than cars in 2015, The Atlantic reported. More than 25% of teenagers ages 15 and older who die of injuries in the US are killed in gun-related incidents.

Somethings very fishy…Well it’s not surprising when the NRA speaks, people listen. Money talks.
 
It’s possible to greatly reduce them, but it would involve unpopular tactics, such as fixing irresponsible US gun regulations to be on par with, say, central Europe (Britain’s phobic extremism is unnecessary, and central Europe is safer than Britain). Censor their identity to get depressed mass murderers out of the digital coliseum of fame & glory in their bloodbath… That’s possibly even more unpopular than the first one. Improve the mental health system. Those three could go a long way.

The first one limits their access.
The second one limits their incentive.
The third one limits their brutality.
The problem with gun regulations like Europe is that America is nothing like Europe, Central or otherwise. The amount of guns out there already are well past the point of no return, and the attitudes of Americans toward guns is unique to America.

Treating the shootings like non-events is likely to start happening soon enough. The logic of one murder is a tragedy and a million is a statistic is going to start applying soon, as these mass shootings are starting to get reported at an exponential rate. Tragedies are interesting, but statistics are boring. After awhile there is nothing left to be said about them.

Improving the mental health system might be worthwhile in its own right, but it is not as if the majority of these mass murderers have any contact with the mental health care system in the first place. Utter contempt for one’s fellow human beings is not a category on the DSM
 
America is filled with gun-toting violence-prone idiots, and it’s also filled with people who want to protect themselves from said idiots.

And to do so they need guns.

There’s no way to end or resolve this problem, it’s a completely circular argument.
 
The 5 day waiting period and background checks required by the Brady bill has kept guns out of the wrong hands.

Heres one article about it.

smartgunlaws.org/effectiveness-brady-actbackground-checks/
An excerpt from the article…

Statistics reported by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence confirm that background checks work and have had a significant positive impact on national crime rates. Before the Brady law was enacted, America’s gun homicide rate was on a dramatic rise, increasing by 55 percent from 1984 to 1993 even as non-gun homicides were falling over this period.4 After Brady background checks were required, however, gun murders began to steadily decline and ultimately fell by 32 percent from 1993 to 2006.5 The rate of robberies and aggravated assaults committed with firearms also decreased by 42 percent over this period.6

nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html

From MSNBC… msnbc.com/msnbc/anniversaryas-anni-brady-bill-looms…This month marks the 20th anniversary of the bill’s signing, and while there is much to applaud about the bill’s impact—more than 2 million gun purchases, many of them by felons and fugitives, have been blocked, gun-safety advocates say —another important piece of gun legislation is set to disappear.

And the bill expired…
Nobody has been able to demonstrate a correlation, positive or negative, between restrictive gun laws and homicide rates.

washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/06/zero-correlation-between-state-homicide-rate-and-state-gun-laws/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_bhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/06/zero-correlation-between-state-homicide-rate-and-state-gun-laws/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b

Even gun control advocates are starting to figure it out.

huffingtonpost.com/paul-heroux/the-correlation-of-gun-la_b_4528290.html
I didn’t say He was a pacifist someone else did but Jesus didn’t hurt any people and He certainly didn’t shoot anyone…
Not surprising, since guns wouldn’t be invented for more than a thousand years after his death and resurrection. I suspect the temple moneychangers would disagree with you about Jesus not hurting anybody.
Rare? If its so rare why is it mentioned every day in the paper. In fact why is the CDC being banned from studying gun violence? Here’s an article on that.

businessinsider.com/congressional-ban-on-gun-violence-research-rewnewed-2015-7

From the article: CDC data has indicated that guns will kill more Americans under 25 than cars in 2015, The Atlantic reported. More than 25% of teenagers ages 15 and older who die of injuries in the US are killed in gun-related incidents.

Somethings very fishy…Well it’s not surprising when the NRA speaks, people listen. Money talks.
Media doesn’t report on common everyday events. They report on rare, uncommon events. It’s why a dog biting a man isn’t a news story, but a man biting a dog is.
 
I’d rather be protected by a policeman who has the authority to defend me than some doopa on the street who thinks he knows all there is about guns, and how and when to use them.
stereotyping
 
Gun violence is rare now, even with the majority of the US states having liberal gun laws. In fact, some of the places with the worst gun violence have some of the strictest gun laws.
This report happens to disagree with your statement. It also doesn’t take into consideration importing guns from no permit to buy states.

States With the Most Gun Violence

As mass shootings continue to appear in the news, many Americans and state leaders are asking how to address the problem without restricting constitutional rights.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) tracks the number of gun-related fatalities — including homicides, suicides, and accidents — in each state. The frequency of firearm-related deaths varies widely across the U.S. Firearms were associated with just 3.0 deaths per 100,000 residents in Rhode Island in 2011, the lowest gun-related fatality rate of any state. Louisiana, on the other hand, reported 18.8 firearm-related deaths per 100,000 residents, the most of any state. 24/7 Wall St. examined the 10 states with the highest gun-related death rates.

Interesting most of the states with the most gun violence are no permit to buy Red states.

Amazon reviews hijacked by causes, conspiracies, rage

When I posted this link, there was some confusion on the relationship to right wing conspiracies.

Scarlett Lewis was a mother of six year old son gun downed at Sandy Hook. She wrote a book titled: “Nurturing Healing Love: A Mother’s Journey of Hope and Forgiveness” to describe her journey after the massacre and help others choose love and forgiveness instead of anger and resentment in their darkest moments."

There was an orchestrated attempt by the far right to attack an already grieving mother
Several were posted after a YouTube user who goes by the handle “RadMc02” uploaded a video on Oct. 18 encouraging viewers to “Truth Bomb the **** Out of Amazon Reviews!” But the venom that runs through more than three dozen reviews on Amazon.com of Scarlett Lewis’ latest book are particularly scathing.

There are only 4 million members of the NRA that have so much political clout over the rest of the population.

My main concern is that ever since Columbine, this is becoming so normal that people are becoming desensitized to it and accepted as the times we live in. The mores of society are declining to such a degree both in and out of the church, will society become the utopian society of Ayn Rand “survival of the fitest”?
 
I asked what gun control and mentioned what a person needs to obtain a FOID. That manual is for gun dealers and for people who want special guns, etc. Basically all one needs for a gun is a drivers license and a background check and money. Your suggesting to take all the suspicion off of a person coming in to buy a gun and there’s a problem with that. Sellers should always be wary of putting guns in the wrong hands if they’re concerned for the common good, but they’re not, they are in it for the money.
Please. Your comment “What gun control?” on post #62 prompted that reply. The laws are not to your liking, and from where I stand, that must mean they are about right. Peddle your outrage some more.
 
This report happens to disagree with your statement. It also doesn’t take into consideration importing guns from no permit to buy states.

States With the Most Gun Violence

As mass shootings continue to appear in the news, many Americans and state leaders are asking how to address the problem without restricting constitutional rights.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) tracks the number of gun-related fatalities — including homicides, suicides, and accidents — in each state. The frequency of firearm-related deaths varies widely across the U.S. Firearms were associated with just 3.0 deaths per 100,000 residents in Rhode Island in 2011, the lowest gun-related fatality rate of any state. Louisiana, on the other hand, reported 18.8 firearm-related deaths per 100,000 residents, the most of any state. 24/7 Wall St. examined the 10 states with the highest gun-related death rates.
The author draws no distinction between deaths caused by criminal activity and suicide so his analysis is of little value if in a discussion about mass shootings.
Interesting most of the states with the most gun violence are no permit to buy Red states.

Amazon reviews hijacked by causes, conspiracies, rage

When I posted this link, there was some confusion on the relationship to right wing conspiracies.
Suicide and murder are two very different things. If you want to draw a correlation between gun laws and murder rates, you need to remove suicides from the equation.
Scarlett Lewis was a mother of six year old son gun downed at Sandy Hook. She wrote a book titled: “Nurturing Healing Love: A Mother’s Journey of Hope and Forgiveness” to describe her journey after the massacre and help others choose love and forgiveness instead of anger and resentment in their darkest moments."

There was an orchestrated attempt by the far right to attack an already grieving mother
Several were posted after a YouTube user who goes by the handle “RadMc02” uploaded a video on Oct. 18 encouraging viewers to “Truth Bomb the **** Out of Amazon Reviews!” But the venom that runs through more than three dozen reviews on Amazon.com of Scarlett Lewis’ latest book are particularly scathing.
I’m not sure how this is relevant to the discussion.
There are only 4 million members of the NRA that have so much political clout over the rest of the population.
Or, perhaps people just agree with the NRA’s stance on gun control. Opinion polls, even in the wake of things like Sandy Hook, tend to significant majorities that oppose enacting stricter gun laws.
My main concern is that ever since Columbine, this is becoming so normal that people are becoming desensitized to it and accepted as the times we live in. The mores of society are declining to such a degree both in and out of the church, will society become the utopian society of Ayn Rand “survival of the fitest”?
It’s not that normal. A mass shooting like Columbine, Sandy Hook, or Aurora happens once every couple of years. In a nation of 350M with over 300M legally owned firearms, that doesn’t really qualify as a normal occurrence.
 
This report happens to disagree with your statement. It also doesn’t take into consideration importing guns from no permit to buy states.

States With the Most Gun Violence


Amazon reviews hijacked by causes, conspiracies, rage

When I posted this link, there was some confusion on the relationship to right wing conspiracies.
Both of your links are opinion pieces, not sources of facts. Mr 24/7 provided no citations for his claims, or methods and analysis to back them up. As far as Amazon reviews goes, you better have a thick skin. Those reviews are typically abusive, hyperbolic and useless.
 
State laws don’t go far enough to show a decline in homicide rates and the lobbyists and far rights are doing their best to make sure no real in depth studies are being done. We know that the brady bill and work that Clinton did with bringing more law enforcement into the big cities helped, but that didn’t go far enough and the brady bill is expired. So what is to be expected is there aren’t any gun laws which make sense in place. I don’t subscribe to columnists version of this, it’s scratching the surface of the problem at best. It doesn’t even talk about accidental shootings.
 
Not surprising, since guns wouldn’t be invented for more than a thousand years after his death and resurrection. I suspect the temple moneychangers would disagree with you about Jesus not hurting anybody.
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Killing a person with a gun is serious business. It’s taking a life. Jesus would not take someones life because they were not behaving as they should in a temple. The analogy used here is way off base. You suspect the temple money changers would disagree, and I’ve heard other people say that Jesus whipped the money changers, but the scriptures do not say that. This is what the scriptures say.

Matthew 21: Jesus Cleanses the Temple
12 Then Jesus entered the temple[c] and drove out all who were selling and buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. 13 He said to them, “It is written,

‘My house shall be called a house of prayer’;
but you are making it a den of robbers.”

Nowhere did it say that Jesus hurt the money changers. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. No need to interpret any further than that in order to prove that Jesus hurt someone and so it’s okay to hurt others. IT may surprise you but there happens to be people who live in this country who live without guns just fine and like it that way.
 
It’s not that normal. A mass shooting like Columbine, Sandy Hook, or Aurora happens once every couple of years. In a nation of 350M with over 300M legally owned firearms, that doesn’t really qualify as a normal occurrence.
If shootings are so rare like it’s being proposed here why in the world do so many people feel the need to protect themselves and have the risk of a firearm in their homes of themselves and their neighbors?? I personally know people who have guns and shouldn’t in their home…
 
Media doesn’t report on common everyday events. They report on rare, uncommon events. It’s why a dog biting a man isn’t a news story, but a man biting a dog is.
This is going back and forth, the ones who want guns say there’s not a lot of gun violence and say that all the articles and evidence suggest that gun laws do nothing. Then we find out that the NRA fights to keep studies on gun violence from being done and any news to the contrary is just exaggerated. I believe there is a big lie going on just to keep more guns being sold and pushed into our homes. I know that gun violence gets underreported by the media. Yes I agree Media doesn’t report on common everyday events like shootings, accidental or otherwise and the problem is much worse than it’s being portrayed here because people want to have their guns.
 
stereotyping
I said some doopa, and I could tell you stories of people with guns who shouldn’t have them. Those are the people who I am referring to. If you think it applied to you I would use the same analogy when someone brought up what progressives do and say, as if I was a progressive because I feel we need smarter gun laws… That’s stereotyped me and the comment didn’t even need to be put in here as far as I’m concerned. Want to keep putting me down because I don’t like guns around, than really the discussion is over as far as I’m concerned. I don’t need guns in my life, all they are is bad news. Way too many children and innocent people are killed and no one seems to address that problem is a problem, it gets shoved under the rug… I applaud the Pope for speaking out on this problem. Good night all!
 
If shootings are so rare like it’s being proposed here why in the world do so many people feel the need to protect themselves and have the risk of a firearm in their homes of themselves and their neighbors?? I personally know people who have guns and shouldn’t in their home…
Mass shootings like those at Columbine, Aurora, and Sandy Hook are rare, in large cities like Chicago, Baltimore, and Detroit though, shootings are distressingly common. Coincidentally, those cities have very restrictive gun laws, laws which seem to do a very good job of keeping weapons out of the hands of law abiding citizens, but not so well at keeping them out of the hands of criminals. Perhaps this explains why people are choosing to take self defense into their own hands rather than rely on police, of whom it is said, “when seconds count, the police are just minutes away”.

BTW - If you know people who have weapons in their home who shouldn’t, why haven’t you reported them to the police? Illegally possessing a firearm is a crime.
 
ucfe:
BTW - If you know people who have weapons in their home who shouldn’t, why haven’t you reported them to the police? Illegally possessing a firearm is a crime.
. They have them legally that’s the point!
 
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