Sweden Moves to Ban Homeschooling for Religious or Philosophical Reasons

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Home schoolers harp on how bad the schools are, then want any product or drop out of those schools to teach.
First off, I serioulsy doubt you can back that statement up. Second, based on my experience with teachers, if someone has enough drive to homeschool there children they more often than not have the intelligence and education to do it.
 
Mandatory education laws aren’t just about a “right” to an education–they are about forcibly removing children from their homes to allow someone besides the parents to educate (or indoctinate) children for the most of childhood.Mandatory education laws (and your posts) seem to assume that all parents would neglect their children’s education. What happened to “innocent until proven guilty”? If parents neglect or abuse their children, society may step in to protect the children. The majority of parents–especially homeschooling parents— care more about their individual children and their children’s education than any government or educational institution ever will.

By the way, not all children “prosper and thrive” in a school environment. Even this proposed Swedish law recognizes that fact as it allows homeschooling if “extraordinary circumstances” exist. For some children, “the right to an education” might be better achieved by protecting parental rights to homeschool.
  1. I said nothing about all parents neglecting kids’ education.
  2. I don’t know what happened to “innocent until proven guilty”. What?
  3. I agree if parents neglect or abuse kids society may step in.
  4. A majority is 51%.
  5. I agree not all children prosper and thrive in a school environment.
  6. I agree some kids might do better in a home school environment. However, that is for the benefit of the kid. the parent doesn’t matter.
  7. Since the kid has a legal right to an education, and since society has a right to step in if there is abuse or neglect, then society has the right to pass on the competence of parents to home school.
  8. Since the kid has a legal right to an education, society also has a right to determine if the competent parent is teaching the kid the basic skills necessary to thive in society.
  9. If parent or educational content mentined in #7 and #8 fail, then the kid has a right to be educated in a school. This trumps the parents wishes.
 
First off, I serioulsy doubt you can back that statement up. Second, based on my experience with teachers, if someone has enough drive to homeschool there children they more often than not have the intelligence and education to do it.
Do you disagree that many home schoolers consider the public schools to be incompetent and unable to provide a quality education?

Do you disagree that many home schoolers think all parents have a right to educate their kids at home?

Drive has nothing to do with competence. Nor is there any reason to presume all people who choose home school will actually engage in the activity. To presume they are all both competent and willing is to neglect the welfare of the kids.
 
Do you disagree that many home schoolers consider the public schools to be incompetent and unable to provide a quality education?

Do you disagree that many home schoolers think all parents have a right to educate their kids at home?

Drive has nothing to do with competence. Nor is there any reason to presume all people who choose home school will actually engage in the activity. To presume they are all both competent and willing is to neglect the welfare of the kids.
Can you prove that homeschooled children fare worse than those educated in public?
 
  1. I said nothing about all parents neglecting kids’ education.
  2. I don’t know what happened to “innocent until proven guilty”. What?
By “innocent until proven guilty” I mean that laws which ban homeschooling seem based on the assumption that most parents who want to homeschool cannot or will not educate their children properly. Until individual parents are proven incompetant or neglectful of their child/children 's education, government should assume parents are qualified to teach their children or qualified to direct their children’s education through other means. (Many "home"schoolers use tutors, co-ops, outside classes, etc. for part of the instruction.)
  1. I agree some kids might do better in a home school environment. However, that is for the benefit of the kid. the parent doesn’t matter…
Good, we agree that some children may do better in a home school environment. When government prohibits parents from homeschooling their children for “religious or philosophical reasons”, many children who might benefit from homeschooling are much less likely to be homeshooled.
…7. Since the kid has a legal right to an education, and since society has a right to step in if there is abuse or neglect, then society has the right to pass on the competence of parents to home school.
  1. Since the kid has a legal right to an education, society also has a right to determine if the competent parent is teaching the kid the basic skills necessary to thive in society.
  2. If parent or educational content mentined in #7 and #8 fail, then the kid has a right to be educated in a school. This trumps the parents wishes.
But none of your points here relate to the original article that reported about Swenden looking to ban homeschooling. That proposed law wasn’t about determining if the parents were competant or if the homeschooled children received an adequate education at home–it was about prohibiting homeschooling.
 
Homeschooling is also illegal in Germany.
Homeschooling in Germany is illegal with rare exceptions. The requirement to attend school has been upheld, on challenge from parents, by the Federal Constitutional Court of Germany. Parents violating the law have most prominently included fundamentalist Christians who want to give their children a more Christian education than what is offered by the schools. Penalties against these parents have included fines (around €5,000), successful legal actions to take away the parents’ custody of their children, and jail time for the parents
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_in_Germany
 
Interestingly, in the UK the government is very tolerant of home schooling, as this article outlines.
The UK homeschool situation, often referred to as home education, is a bit different than it is in the United States. Keep reading to find out more about how the UK homeschool and the US homeschool situations compare.
How the Law Differs
One of the fundamental differences in the US and UK homeschool situations has to do with the law concerning schooling. According to Infoplease.com, 49 of the 50 United States have compulsory school attendance laws. Colorado, the standout state, according to this information has revised its school attendance law to reflect that a child being “instructed at home” is not held to the public school attendance requirement.
In the UK, on the other hand, according to the Elective Home Education Guidelines for Local Authorities, “The responsibility for a child’s education rests with their parents. In England, Education is compulsory, but school is not.” This difference in where education rests - with the state or with the parents - gives the UK homeschool situation a very different feel than the US homeschool movement.
educationbug.org/a/uk-homeschool.html
 
I’ve noticed two interesting claims from many home schoolers.
  1. The public schools are terrible and don’t teach the kids well.
  2. The illiterate graduates of these terrible schools are qualified to teach their own kids.
Amazing isn’t it? It seems illogical, and yet it happens that parents get better results than teachers with master degrees and years of experience. Even the dumb parents! 👍

It gives you new respect for the Church teaching on the necessity and irreplaceableness of the family. Just another one of those things about the Church that humanly didn’t seem to make sense, but really works. 😃
 
I agree about history. For most of history they grubbed around looking for their next meal, Now, however, they don’t have to do that and have a wealth of opportunity. We have decided the kid has a legal right to an education that will allow him to prosper and thrive in that environment.

The rest of us owe that to the kid, regardless of the fact that he may have an illiterate zealot, drunk, doper, or rapist for a parent.
WillieWonka, look up the graduation rate or literacy rate in you local school. The graduation rate might be tricky, you need to look at how they define it and find the term that means the percent of kids who enter 9th grade and actually receive a diploma four years later. Graduation rate often means those seniors who say they’re going to graduate that year and actually do, a pretty worthless statistic. The literacy rate is pretty meaningless until the jr hi or high school ages. Before that, they rate it on a child’s ability to read the words from their word list.

My point is that a public school education guarantees nothing. It just relieves the parents of feeling responsible for their child’s education. Which it really doesn’t. If your child can’t read after 13 years of public school, it’s the child and the parents who will suffer, not the school. What good is a legal right to something that doesn’t work for about half the kids? Who lays awake at night wondering if the adult kid can pay his mortgage? Not the state, it’s mom and dad.

As a human living in the US, who pays taxes for those unemployed or on welfare or in prison, I would think you would support anything that pressures the system to educate children. Or creates another system that does work.
 
Why are the Scandinavian countries so atheistic? Why is atheism/agnosticism so high there? It’s like that in no other place in the world
Wasn’t Scandinavia one of the last places in Europe to become Christian?
I don’t think the pagan culture ever really went away entirely.They still believe in trolls…😉
 
Parts of Finland weren’t Christianized until the 19th century I believe. :eek:
 
I agree about history. For most of history they grubbed around looking for their next meal, Now, however, they don’t have to do that and have a wealth of opportunity. We have decided the kid has a legal right to an education that will allow him to prosper and thrive in that environment.

The rest of us owe that to the kid, regardless of the fact that he may have an illiterate zealot, drunk, doper, or rapist for a parent.
My experience has been that most folks are grateful not to have to educate their kids & to let the state do it for free.The few that homeschool are very dedicated & try to do their best for their child’s education.
Homeschooling requires hard work,time & energy.Not an easy job.And not attractive to most folks who are drunks or "dopers.’
Public schools here in our area have almost a 50% drop out rate.Fifty percent of our young people are not thriving nor flourishing under the present conditions.
 
By “innocent until proven guilty” I mean that laws which ban homeschooling seem based on the assumption that most parents who want to homeschool cannot or will not educate their children properly. Until individual parents are proven incompetant or neglectful of their child/children 's education, government should assume parents are qualified to teach their children or qualified to direct their children’s education through other means. (Many "home"schoolers use tutors, co-ops, outside classes, etc. for part of the instruction.)

Good, we agree that some children may do better in a home school environment. When government prohibits parents from homeschooling their children for “religious or philosophical reasons”, many children who might benefit from homeschooling are much less likely to be homeshooled.
But none of your points here relate to the original article that reported about Swenden looking to ban homeschooling. That proposed law wasn’t about determining if the parents were competant or if the homeschooled children received an adequate education at home–it was about prohibiting homeschooling.
I agree my points don’t directly relate to the article. They relate to the idea that kids have a legal right to an education, illiterate and incompetent parents can’t teach, and the state has a responsibility to enforce the kids’ right…
 
Amazing isn’t it? It seems illogical, and yet it happens that parents get better results than teachers with master degrees and years of experience. Even the dumb parents! 👍

It gives you new respect for the Church teaching on the necessity and irreplaceableness of the family. Just another one of those things about the Church that humanly didn’t seem to make sense, but really works. 😃
I agree some parents get better results, and some get worse. I doubt illiterate parents do very well.
 
WillieWonka, look up the graduation rate or literacy rate in you local school. The graduation rate might be tricky, you need to look at how they define it and find the term that means the percent of kids who enter 9th grade and actually receive a diploma four years later. Graduation rate often means those seniors who say they’re going to graduate that year and actually do, a pretty worthless statistic. The literacy rate is pretty meaningless until the jr hi or high school ages. Before that, they rate it on a child’s ability to read the words from their word list.

My point is that a public school education guarantees nothing. It just relieves the parents of feeling responsible for their child’s education. Which it really doesn’t. If your child can’t read after 13 years of public school, it’s the child and the parents who will suffer, not the school. What good is a legal right to something that doesn’t work for about half the kids? Who lays awake at night wondering if the adult kid can pay his mortgage? Not the state, it’s mom and dad.

As a human living in the US, who pays taxes for those unemployed or on welfare or in prison, I would think you would support anything that pressures the system to educate children. Or creates another system that does work.
Good points.

However, if a public school education guarantees nothing, we have no reason to presume parents educated by the public school are competent to teach their kids.

I do support presures that work. I do not support allowing illiterate and incompetent parents to teach. That is not an effective pressure and contributes to the problem.
 
So in other words, you have no basis for your arguement.
I haven’t argued home schooled kids fare worse than public school kids.

I have argued illiterate and incompetent parents cannot teach, and allowing them to do so would violate the kids legal right to an education.
 
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