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mikew262
Guest
Yes, he will, and that’s the bottom line.
BTW, most Protestants think we are all heretics. And the ball continues to bounce back and forth. Sad.
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BTW, most Protestants think we are all heretics. And the ball continues to bounce back and forth. Sad.
A person raised in the faith should know the truth.
Assuming the parents did their job.
And to that, I can add that I have known many people that left the church for other faiths. In every incident, without exception, they claim that their search for God led them to another church, but when questioned further always seem to have some kind of axe to grind. A priest not treating them right, a prayer unanswered, the nuns were mean, take your pick. No legitimate search for truth, just objections, denials, and self-justification.
And no, I am not condemning another faith, I condemn the choice of another once the truth is known. There is a big difference.
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rkberlin
Guest
Hi,
I don’t see how that would be a mortal sin, though. If you don’t reject God- or the Trinity for that matter, does it really matter all that much which religion you practice? ( I’m a believing Catholic here, so don#t get me wrong, I couldn’t imagine practicing anything else, and I DID look into other religions when i was having my issues as a young grown up…). Aren#t all religions really just manmade? I know the Church was the first one there, instated by Jesus Christ, so I honor that. What if that was just the beginning, though? Maybe Jesus intented for Christianity to snowball…? Please don’t get me wrong, I don’t know the higher plan here, I’m just guessing. Why else are there such movements for ecumenical services? Why does the Church recognize baptisms that were administered in the name of the Trinity? Don’t we kind of all believe the same thing? Father, Son and Holy Spirit? In different ways and interpretations, yes, but the foundation stands firm and solid. Maybe I’m just having a liberal moment, but I don’t want to be like so many of our evangelical brothers and sisters who are unfortunately very selfrighteous. I think the real message Jesus was trying to give us was to be more tolerant and love even those who believe in different things. I’ll be praying for all of us…
I don’t see how that would be a mortal sin, though. If you don’t reject God- or the Trinity for that matter, does it really matter all that much which religion you practice? ( I’m a believing Catholic here, so don#t get me wrong, I couldn’t imagine practicing anything else, and I DID look into other religions when i was having my issues as a young grown up…). Aren#t all religions really just manmade? I know the Church was the first one there, instated by Jesus Christ, so I honor that. What if that was just the beginning, though? Maybe Jesus intented for Christianity to snowball…? Please don’t get me wrong, I don’t know the higher plan here, I’m just guessing. Why else are there such movements for ecumenical services? Why does the Church recognize baptisms that were administered in the name of the Trinity? Don’t we kind of all believe the same thing? Father, Son and Holy Spirit? In different ways and interpretations, yes, but the foundation stands firm and solid. Maybe I’m just having a liberal moment, but I don’t want to be like so many of our evangelical brothers and sisters who are unfortunately very selfrighteous. I think the real message Jesus was trying to give us was to be more tolerant and love even those who believe in different things. I’ll be praying for all of us…
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thistle
Guest
Sorry but that is not correct. If a Catholic rejects the Church established by Christ and its teachings then they will be condemned.
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Jeanette_L
Guest
I have to say one thing on this topic. Just from the short time I have been exposed to Catholic teaching, and from the many years I have been around Catholics, I will venture to say that most Catholics themselves have no clue what the Catholic Church teaches about just about everything. So if they wander off to another denomination, more than likely, they have no clue what the Church teaches about it or any other part of their faith. And many, many of them are finding clearer teaching about faith in Christ somewhere else. And from what I have seen also, it’s only a matter of time before many of them find their way back to the Catholic Church.
Now, IMHO, it is the Church’s lack of catechesis and orthodoxy within it’s ranks that has caused this crisis, and it may take another generation or two to get it all straightened out. But it will happen. In the meantime, if the only way the Lord can get his message through is to send them somewhere else first, then bring them back, who are we to say that He’s not accomplishing His will? From what I have seen on this forum, it seems to be the converts and the reverts who are bringing some of that much needed fire back into the Church. Again, who are we to say ultimately what is being accomplished and how it is to happen?
Just a thought.
Now, IMHO, it is the Church’s lack of catechesis and orthodoxy within it’s ranks that has caused this crisis, and it may take another generation or two to get it all straightened out. But it will happen. In the meantime, if the only way the Lord can get his message through is to send them somewhere else first, then bring them back, who are we to say that He’s not accomplishing His will? From what I have seen on this forum, it seems to be the converts and the reverts who are bringing some of that much needed fire back into the Church. Again, who are we to say ultimately what is being accomplished and how it is to happen?
Just a thought.
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mikew262
Guest
You’re not having a liberal moment. Rather you are having a “think outside the box” moment. I totally agree with your post, however most here, won’t.Hi,
I don’t see how that would be a mortal sin, though. If you don’t reject God- or the Trinity for that matter, does it really matter all that much which religion you practice? ( I’m a believing Catholic here, so don#t get me wrong, I couldn’t imagine practicing anything else, and I DID look into other religions when i was having my issues as a young grown up…). Aren#t all religions really just manmade? I know the Church was the first one there, instated by Jesus Christ, so I honor that. What if that was just the beginning, though? Maybe Jesus intented for Christianity to snowball…? Please don’t get me wrong, I don’t know the higher plan here, I’m just guessing. Why else are there such movements for ecumenical services? Why does the Church recognize baptisms that were administered in the name of the Trinity? Don’t we kind of all believe the same thing? Father, Son and Holy Spirit? In different ways and interpretations, yes, but the foundation stands firm and solid. Maybe I’m just having a liberal moment, but I don’t want to be like so many of our evangelical brothers and sisters who are unfortunately very selfrighteous. I think the real message Jesus was trying to give us was to be more tolerant and love even those who believe in different things. I’ll be praying for all of us…
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1ke
Guest
Yes, according to Christ and the Church he founded-- it does matter. What you propose above is actually heresy condemned by the Church.
No, the Jewish religion and the Catholic religion are God-made.
No, the teaching of the Bible and the Church clearly demonstrate this is not so.
Ecumenism’s goal is the reunification of Christianity into the one, true church.
We recognize them because baptism may be performed by those who are not ordained, the same for marriage. Their validity comes from the Catholic Church, not despite it.
We do not recognize other rituals as valid sacraments including: communion, confirmation, ordination, confession, precisely because valid Holy Orders are required to confer these sacraments.
No, that is not the message. He prayed that we all may be one body, not many.In different ways and interpretations, yes, but the foundation stands firm and solid. Maybe I’m just having a liberal moment, but I don’t want to be like so many of our evangelical brothers and sisters who are unfortunately very selfrighteous. I think the real message Jesus was trying to give us was to be more tolerant and love even those who believe in different things. I’ll be praying for all of us…
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Do you think only Catholics commit mortal sins?
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Rand_Al_Thor
Guest
Peace be with you!
Mike, how can you say it’s not a sin if they reject the Church? Sin is not whatever someone chooses it to be. Say I wanted to live with my girlfriend and have sex with her outside of marriage. Well, the Catholic Church says that’s a sin, right? So does the Bible. But what if I choose to leave the Catholic Church and join the Episcopal Church, where that is OK? Do you mean to tell me that it is no longer a sin? You don’t have to be Catholic to commit venial or mortal sins, you know. If you leave the Church and join another that teaches that a certain behavior is not sinful, that doesn’t make it not sinful. God’s Word and His Church are UNCHANGING. You are talking about relativism and subjectivism here.
In Christ,
Rand
Mike, how can you say it’s not a sin if they reject the Church? Sin is not whatever someone chooses it to be. Say I wanted to live with my girlfriend and have sex with her outside of marriage. Well, the Catholic Church says that’s a sin, right? So does the Bible. But what if I choose to leave the Catholic Church and join the Episcopal Church, where that is OK? Do you mean to tell me that it is no longer a sin? You don’t have to be Catholic to commit venial or mortal sins, you know. If you leave the Church and join another that teaches that a certain behavior is not sinful, that doesn’t make it not sinful. God’s Word and His Church are UNCHANGING. You are talking about relativism and subjectivism here.
In Christ,
Rand
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m134e5
Guest
pig boy:
Yes. It is a mortal sin.
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Viki59
Guest
Jeanette L:
I found out just in time, before the only person who remembered passed away.
God brought me back to his church, just as you say.
A good thought, too. That’s exactly what happened to me. Baptized Catholic, but no one ever bothered to tell me I was Catholic! When I found out years and years later, after going through several non-denominational churches, I couldn’t believe it.Now, IMHO, it is the Church’s lack of catechesis and orthodoxy within it’s ranks that has caused this crisis, and it may take another generation or two to get it all straightened out. But it will happen. In the meantime, if the only way the Lord can get his message through is to send them somewhere else first, then bring them back, who are we to say that He’s not accomplishing His will? Just a thought.
I found out just in time, before the only person who remembered passed away.
God brought me back to his church, just as you say.
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
I’m just curious, did you have reservations about looking into Catholicism or did it just feel like something you needed to do after finding out about your baptism, or were you drawn in some other way after finding out?
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Ghosty
Guest
Hebrews 6:
Peace and God bless!
That’s some heavy stuff, to say the least. Apostacy is not just a mortal sin, but it is the worst mortal sin. Not something to be triffled with.
Peace and God bless!
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melbourne_guy
Guest
I sort of understand what mike is trying to say
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Jeanette_L
Guest
Do you agree that some Catholics who leave the faith and then return to it, didn’t have personal faith to begin with when they left? I see a lot of people who were born into Catholicism and go through the motions and have no interior connection whatsoever. They go through the motions because of habit, but nothing has clicked on the inside.
They tend to leave when a spiritual awakening has happened to them outside of their Catholic faith and follow it for a time, most to return to the Catholic Church later, but having a deeper committment to Christ than what they had previously while still in Catholicism.
Do you consider this genuine apostasy? I can’t see it being apostasy if their faith wasn’t genuine to begin with, but just an outward adherance to something they didn’t understand or connect with spiritually until coming back to it later.
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TOP
Guest
What about confirmed catholics leaving the Church?
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Ghosty
Guest
Jeanette L:
Due to the extreme nature of the sin, though, I would never, ever council anyone that it was in any way “ok” to leave the Catholic Church, even if they weren’t grounded in the Faith. It’s better, IMO, to point out the severity of the issue and the need for the individual to pursue proper understanding of the Faith. After all, we’re talking about a sin that is objectively worse than murder, so the personal discernment involved should be at least as intense as with the act of taking another person’s life.
Peace and God bless!
No, I definately think there’s a difference based on personal culpability, just as with any sin. I’m just pointing out that leaving is indeed a major, major sin, objectively speaking. Subjectively there are always factors to consider, it’s not us who do the considering however, but God.
Due to the extreme nature of the sin, though, I would never, ever council anyone that it was in any way “ok” to leave the Catholic Church, even if they weren’t grounded in the Faith. It’s better, IMO, to point out the severity of the issue and the need for the individual to pursue proper understanding of the Faith. After all, we’re talking about a sin that is objectively worse than murder, so the personal discernment involved should be at least as intense as with the act of taking another person’s life.
Peace and God bless!
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
I agree with you wholeheartedly, it would be key if there were someone who could give good counsel before the person made the move. Unfortunately, most of the time, when this situation occurs, the person has already not been practicing their faith for quite some time or have just been going through the motions, and they really don’t have someone around them that they respect who could council them effectively. They usually have pressure from family not to make the move to another church body, but very few have good spiritual counsel during this time from the RC camp.
I only point this out because I saw a lot of Evangelical conversions from RC when I was Evangelical, and this was usually the circumstance. They never felt they heard the message that Christ wanted to know them in a real relationship. They never heard it from their own pastors. It was always just about going through the motions without and interior conversion of the heart. And when this conversion happens for them through the influence of another Christian denomination, their first response is that if RC was the true church, they would have had this conversion already. This is a very sad situation that is all too frequent right now within RC. If you are in a parish that teaches about having a more intimate relationship with Christ, you are blessed.
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Katie1723
Guest
I don’t think you can use the Catholic faith to define what is and isn’t right or wrong with another religion. In essence, we are all sinners at times. The Catholic church just happens to “define” degrees of sin.
As an example,You can no more define the Catholic Church with 7th Day Adventist beliefs, than you can define them with what the Catholic church teaches.
Mikew262…
…i’ll join you in the paradigm !!
Kathy
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Margaret_G
Guest
The reason I have been given by Priests for accepting the baptisms done in the name of the Trinity is because they are done properly and that other “Christians” (Protestants) are viewed as Catholics that have separated from the Catholic Church.Why does the Church recognize baptisms that were administered in the name of the Trinity? Don’t we kind of all believe the same thing? Father, Son and Holy Spirit? In different ways and interpretations, yes, but the foundation stands firm and solid. Maybe I’m just having a liberal moment, but I don’t want to be like so many of our evangelical brothers and sisters who are unfortunately very selfrighteous. I think the real message Jesus was trying to give us was to be more tolerant and love even those who believe in different things. I’ll be praying for all of us…
“Tolerance” is a very liberal term that usually means intolerance. Yes we should love others that believe in other things but we need to take it a step further and pray for them to return to the Catholic Church. Not saying that no one else can make it to heaven, but the Catholic Church that GOD founded does offer us Catholics everything we need to achieve our salvation.
God Bless.
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