H
Hoosier-Daddy
Guest
All over. I think she starts in Melbourne and then Sydney and some other areas.
Where in the world do you live! I live in an area that’s relatively hostile to religion by American standards, and gun violence at Mass really isn’t something I’m too concerned about. Then again, we also don’t have a lot of guns in the area to be worried about.This is why I carry at Mass. It’s only a matter of time and place when this happens to us.
How many bad guys are there where you live!I hope bad guys listen to your bishop.
The last time I checked, the Pope is more a global figure than a local one.You were the one that said it was a very sad state when a country has to have people carry weapons while worshipping God. I was just stating a fact that the Vatican has had people carry weapons while worshipping God for 512 years.
I think when you have to use Mexico as an example of why your country needs people carrying guns, you’ve already admitted that your country has a very, very serious problem. People shouldn’t have to look at Mexico as a warning of what they may face in their own country.Tell that to the pastors and people who have had this happen in their places of worship. Tell that to the priests in Mexico that are disappeared and/or killed.
What about the people in Charleston or Texas? They were in a church and killed in a mass murder. It isn’t just terrorist threats that are an issue. People can have personal threats that are just as dangerous.
At this point, you’re just admitting that what @Roseeurekacross said earlier is right.I used to think so as well. But that just doesn’t seem to the the case anymore. Between school shootings (I am a teacher) and church/place of worship shootings, it sure seems that the common people are at greater risk than you are admitting.
Hitting your comments in order:
- Is there any reason to ignore the suicides? It seems they are every bit as important as firearms accidents.
- Would this include robberies? It seems the more relevant statistic would be how many innocent lives were saved. Can you be sure 310 innocent lives were saved by the use of firearms?
- Those statistics are difficult to collect. So without them any assumptions about them would be pure speculation.
- Good intentions alone do not make up for lack of professional training. I will take your bet.
It need not be sad. Prudence is a cardinal virtue. Furthermore, a parent has an affirmative duty to protect the family. Protection against violence is just one area where each individual must assess for himself what is best.It is sad when we believe we have to assess our individual risk and protect ourselves as we see fit, when going about our daily lives.
I was watching my son play Fortnight. It is a game where the play jumps out with a parachute and starts collecting guns and ammo from attics, bedrooms, basements, kitchens, etc. of houses. The first time I saw it, I said, “It looks like Texas.”1 a western state in America. I’d say about 1/3 of people in our midsized city carry in church.
That is true, but suicides and accidents both are incidents of things enabled by guns. So it is valid to be concerned about suicides.LeafByNiggle:![]()
Hitting your comments in order:
- Is there any reason to ignore the suicides? It seems they are every bit as important as firearms accidents.
- Would this include robberies? It seems the more relevant statistic would be how many innocent lives were saved. Can you be sure 310 innocent lives were saved by the use of firearms?
- Those statistics are difficult to collect. So without them any assumptions about them would be pure speculation.
- Good intentions alone do not make up for lack of professional training. I will take your bet.
- Yes you ignore suicide deaths by firearms in accidental firearms deaths, which was littlelady’s concern, because they are not, by definition, accidents…
It is important to recognize that “violent crime” may include a wide range of crimes besides murder.
- I don’t know if that number includes robberies or not, it was a number provided by littlelady. If you feel so inclined check it out. I don’t know what relevance that has though. But I am sure that in at least 310 cases that year a violent crime was stopped by the legal use of a firearm, because that is what the statistic is. 310 instances of the legal use of a firearm to stop a violent crime, per the gov.
Sorry, I misunderstood your bet. I thought you were betting that 99% of Americans were as good at gun safety as the vast majority of police departments, so as to devalue professional training.
- I’m not sure what you are saying here. You will take what bet, that I don’t have professional firearms training and familiarity more so than probably 99% of Americans? I can virtually guarantee you that is the case, but if you know me better than I do, ok…
No it’s not valid to any discussion about mass shootings, violent crime, and their deterrence by firearms balanced against the civilian user’s expertise or lack their of in their use. It is no more valid or useful than rating a suicide by carbon monoxide asphyxiation in the carport as a car accident. Suicide is a mental health issue for which method has almost zero bearing. Using suicide as a meaningful statistic of gun violence is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the issue and inflate the numbers for political reasons.That is true, but suicides and accidents both are incidents of things enabled by guns. So it is valid to be concerned about suicides.
Violent crime does include crimes other than murder. This still has no relevance on whether legal firearm use prevented violent crime. You seem fixated only on murder, as though a we can only talk in terms of eye for an eye. I am fine with a firearm stopping a murder, armed robbery, rape, etc.It is important to recognize that “violent crime” may include a wide range of crimes besides murder.
I was merely saying that I have some authority in speaking on firearm use and safety and not just speaking in theory. I doubt anywhere close to 99% of Americans are trained as well as law enforcement in using a firearm, especially a pistol in a crowded space. I would say however that those who conceal carry are most likely more familiar and more well trained than your average American firearm owner, especially in the realm of close quarter urban engagement. Those who conceal carry are not just some group of hotheads itching for a shootout, as some would have us believe. The fear of citizens carrying concealed is IMO demonstrably irrational.Sorry, I misunderstood your bet. I thought you were betting that 99% of Americans were as good at gun safety as the vast majority of police departments, so as to devalue professional training.
But there is more to talk about than just the civilian user’s expertise. You are focusing only on LittleLady’s second citation, but have not addressed the first one - the Scientific American article. And here is where suicides become relevant. The studies show that when guns are kept in the home, the suicide rate goes up by a factor of 3.44. And the real surprise is that if guns are kept in the home, the odds of a homicide in that home go up by a factor of 1.41.That is true, but suicides and accidents both are incidents of things enabled by guns. So it is valid to be concerned about suicides.
If we adopt the policy that mass shootings are going to be addressed by having a larger civilian population carrying guns, when those people go home, their guns become part of the statistic of guns in the home. And the Scientific American citation shows what happens from that. Even people with a concealed carry permit are subject to depression and suicide. Please look that the methodology of the article and see if you can find any faults in it.
Are you in the heart of some violent ghetto? That’s the only place where I can see this maybe making sense.Lots of bad guys.
I think when prudence includes planning for a shooter, you should probably ask yourself why that’s a concern in the first place and what you can do to change that. I can understand someone in Mexico or Syria planning for one, but why are we doing that in the United States? The last time I checked, the U.S. wasn’t a war zone.Prudence is a cardinal virtue.
Mexico is often referred to one, though. At the very least, certain parts practically are.Neither is Mexico
Death squads. Military. They killed him for "subversive and communist " .By a hostile, antiCatholic government of Latin America.
I get that a lot of major cities have at least one “bad area”. But again, a lot of people preparing for shootings don’t live in them, and we shouldn’t just accept them as they are anyways. With that said, if people all over your country are being shot, to the point where preparing for the worst is reasonable anywhere, then your country has a very serious problem.It’s not just Chicago and Detroit. Louisville, KY, Pittsburg, high school in North Carolina just within the last few days.