Ten Arguments against Harry Potter

[TPJCatholic]

From:

catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=36&art_id=29398

Ten Arguments Against Harry Potter

Catholic Exchange

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1. Harry Potter is a global long-term project to change the culture. In this generation of youths, inhibitions against magic and the occult are being destroyed. Thus, forces re-enter society which Christianity had overcome.
2. Hogwarts, the school of magic and witchcraft, is a closed world of violence and horror, of cursing and bewitching, of racist ideology, of blood sacrifice, disgust, and obsession. There is an atmosphere of continuous threat, which the young reader cannot escape.
3. While Harry Potter appears in the beginning to fight against evil, in fact the similarities between him and Voldemort, the arch-evil adversary in the tale, become more and more obvious. In volume five, Harry is being obsessed by Voldemort, which leads to symptoms of personality disintegration.
4. The human world becomes degraded; the world of witches and sorcerers becomes glorified.
5. There is no positive transcendent dimension. The supernatural is entirely demonic. Divine symbols are perverted.
6. Harry Potter is no modern fairy tale. In fairy tales, sorcerers and witches are unambiguous figures of evil and the hero escapes their power through the exercise of virtue. In the Harry Potter universe there is no character that endeavors consistently to achieve good. For seemingly good ends evil means are being used.
7. A (young!) reader’s power of discernment of good and evil is blocked out through emotional manipulation and intellectual confusion.
8. It is an assault upon this generation of youth, seducing it playfully into a world of witchcraft and sorcery, filling the imagination of the young with images of a world in which evil reigns, from which there is no escape, on the contrary, it is portrayed as highly desirable.
9. Those who value plurality of opinion should resist the nearly overwhelming power of this peer pressure, which is being accomplished through a gigantic corporate and multimedia blitz — one which displays elements of totalitarian brainwashing.
10. Since through the Potter books faith in a loving God is systematically undermined, even destroyed in many young people, through false “values” and mockery of Judeo-Christian truth, the introduction of these books in schools is intolerant. Parents should refuse permission for their children to take part in Potter indoctrination for reasons of faith and conscience.

 

[buffalo]

1. The Pope says it’s bad.

 

[TPJCatholic]

buffalo,

Very good numer 11. That one is enough on its own.

 

[threej_lc]

11. The Pope says it’s bad.

So the mass media has said… but as was clearly put out on the Ask an Apologist forum yesterday… isn’t the case.

Josh

 

[TPJCatholic]

The Pope, as Cardinal Ratzinger, did not speak favorably of the novels. That is enough for me.

 

[The_Angelus]

I just think they’re creepy. I liked “Lord of the Rings.” There was a definite GOod and a definite Bad, and in the movie, they certainly made the Bad repellent (I nearly lost my lunch watching those orcs!). But in Harry Potter, not only is the hero of… dubious virtue… but also, magic isn’t treated as anything dangerous or forbidden. “Do what you like and hang the consequences” is an attitude I find very dangerous.

 

[TPJCatholic]

Here is number 12:

Catechism 2116
All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

Catechism 2117
All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they
have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

 

[yochumjy]

TPJCatholic:

The Pope, as Cardinal Ratzinger, did not speak favorably of the novels. That is enough for me.

He didn’t really speak at all about the novels. His response was to an unknown letter that we shouldn’t assume about. It is doubtful, as cardinal or Pope, that he has even read the novels. The letters that were given do not give any kind of clear picture and are just text without context, which doesn’t really tell us anything.

You don’t have to like the novels, but putting words in the Pope’s mouth does not make your argument believable. Stick to real arguments, you will come accross much better to those that might be on the fence and looking for a good reason to fall one side or the other.

 

[TPJCatholic]

yo,

Thanks for the advice, yet I do disagree.

As Cardinal Ratzinger he did speak disfavorably about the novels, unless of course you think the signed letters are some grand hoax (not impossible, but very unlikely).

If you take note, I made it clear that he did not say anything about the novels as Pope, but rather he did speak unfavorably about the novels when he was head of the CDF–no small job either.

I would recommend that you read all of my messages before you make such sweeping statements and suggestions about my statements. If you do that, you will come accross much better to those that you might have confused with your imcorrect interpretation of my words…which simply demonstrates that you did not read what I wrote…never a postive thing. Please take these comments positively, for they are not meant as an insult in anyway.

Beyond those points, there are eleven other points and you have not bothered to comment on any of those.

 

[TPJCatholic]

yo,

Btw,

Considering the rate at which the novels are selling, there are likely very few people on the fence. I posted this thread more as a point of interest…I doubt that anyone is going to listen to anyone about the novels–when they go on sale, they represent some of the most incredible publishing events in history.

There is little to be done about it.

 

[mlchance]

Catechism 2116:

All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

Not a single mention of reading novels.
Catechism 2117:

All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they
have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

And, again, not a single mention of reading novels.

“Reads a novel” does not equal “attempts to tame occult powers.” “Reads a novel” does not equal failing to reject “[a]ll forms of divination.”

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[TPJCatholic]

mlchance,

I completely agree. Yet, does a good Catholic want to read stuff that God and His Church has so completely condemned? That is really the question.

 

[mlchance]

TPJCatholic:

I completely agree. Yet, does a good Catholic want to read stuff that God and His Church has so completely condemned? That is really the question.

I would say not.

But, since neither God nor the Church has condemned Harry Potter…

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Shiann]

The_Angelus:

I just think they’re creepy. I liked “Lord of the Rings.” There was a definite GOod and a definite Bad, and in the movie, they certainly made the Bad repellent (I nearly lost my lunch watching those orcs!). But in Harry Potter, not only is the hero of… dubious virtue… but also, magic isn’t treated as anything dangerous or forbidden. “Do what you like and hang the consequences” is an attitude I find very dangerous.

There is a specific format that JK Rowling is using to demonstrate many of these life lessons. This format is often attributed to the Inklings (British authors such as CS Lewis and Tolkien). It’s called alchemical allegory or symbolism. There are a huge number of Christian references when viewing the books with this in mind.

Is Rowling as good at weaving an alchemical allegory as Tolkien or Lewis? I would have to say no. But her stories are not anti-Christian.

 

[trth_skr]

11. The Pope says it’s bad.

I wish more Vatican officials, Cardinals, Bishops and Priests would speak out like this. It used to be that Catholics were supposed to feel like “strangers in a strange land” (especially in US and other predominately non-Catholic countries). Now most Catholics feel it is ok to embrace every gimmick Lucifer throws to the world.

I wish there would be more talk about rock & roll (Lucifer’s music). I remember over 10 years ago, before I became Catholic talking to a Catholic about rock music and satanic influences (I have since heard this same respoonse from other Catholics). The response was, “It{s only a gimmick they use to sell their albums”.

ONLY a gimmick. What corrupted idiocy has entered into a Catholic’s mind to say that using satan to market a product is ok because it is only a gimmick. I know there are many Catholics who do not think this way, but I see this mentalilty on many issues with Catholics, from accepting Harry Potter novels, to rushing to read the Da Vinci code, etc.

The diabolical disorientation Martin Malachi talked about has truly overwhelmed the average Catholic. Silence out of fear of loss of church goers (or other factors) on the part of the Vatican and clergy adds to the disorientation. Leadership is needed NOW.

I hope that Pope Benedict XVI can turn this around, but I am still waiting for something big to happen. So far I only hear a few rumors, a couple of subtle statrements, etc. I truly hope and pray he stands up for Christ and speaks directly to Catholics with clarity and authority. It is much needed, and as far as I can tell has not yet occured. It appears to be coming (hopefully).

Mark
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[TPJCatholic]

Shiann,

I would say that the ten point list above contains many issues that are not at all Christian in nature. God condemns the practice of sorcery, magic, divination…should we encourage reading novels that glorify such things?

 

[TPJCatholic]

mlchance,

No, the Vatican has not condemned Harry Potter…do you need to have an official condemnation for everything you might read? Or, is it possible that we are supposed to have a properly formed conscience and know that we should stay away from such garbage?

 

[yochumjy]

TPJCatholic:

Thanks for the advice, yet I do disagree.

as is your perogative.

TPJCatholic:

As Cardinal Ratzinger he did speak disfavorably about the novels, unless of course you think the signed letters are some grand hoax (not impossible, but very unlikely).

The notes do not have to be a grand hoax, as they don’t really say anything that you can definitively use to say he actually read and does not like the novels. You can say that he agrees with the original letter’s point (whatever that is) in the light that it is presented. So, if the original unknown letter says that the Harry Potter novels are bad because they promote witchcraft. The cardinal could say that that is valid and should be put out to the masses. That does not mean that he agrees that the books actually do that, but given the original letters assumption that the books do that, they are bad. Very different, yes?

TPJCatholic:

If you take note, I made it clear that he did not say anything about the novels as Pope, but rather he did speak unfavorably about the novels when he was head of the CDF–no small job either.

Read the above, I don’t believe he stated anything definitive as Cardinal either. And I am not belittling the man in anything that he has done, so adding that in your sentace is unneccesary.

TPJCatholic:

I would recommend that you read all of my messages before you make such sweeping statements and suggestions about my statements. If you do that, you will come accross much better to those that you might have confused with your imcorrect interpretation of my words…which simply demonstrates that you did not read what I wrote…never a postive thing. Please take these comments positively, for they are not meant as an insult in anyway.

I said and I quote:

yochumjy:

You don’t have to like the novels, but putting words in the Pope’s mouth does not make your argument believable. Stick to real arguments, you will come accross much better to those that might be on the fence and looking for a good reason to fall one side or the other.

Show me where I said you had no points. I didn’t, but you are using this point which has been proven false by multiple people. Your continued use of “Cardinal Ratzinger doesn’t like it” doesn’t work. He might not like the novels, but we really don’t know. All I said is to stick with your real points. I NEVER said you didn’t have any points, or that your other points were bad…which simply demonstrates that you did not read what I wrote…never a postive thing. Please take these comments positively, for they are not meant as an insult in anyway.

TPJCatholic:

Beyond those points, there are eleven other points and you have not bothered to comment on any of those.

No, but then mlchance did a nice job at:

Pope Opposes Harry Potter thread

and I wouldn’t begin to assume I could say it better.

 

[TPJCatholic]

It is a sad modern day truth that the Da Vinci Code and Harry Potter have such incredibly wide audiences. Both works are against the faith and both works have been received by huge numbers of Catholics.

 

[mlchance]

TPJCatholic:

I would say that the ten point list above contains many issues that are not at all Christian in nature.

Not a single one of which is supported by any evidence.

TPJCatholic:

God condemns the practice of sorcery, magic, divination…should we encourage reading novels that glorify such things?

And there is nothing, based on my admittedly limited reading of Harry Potter, that resembles actual sorcery, magic, or divination.

I feel compelled to post this link one more time: Spellcasting 101: Don’t Try This at Home.



– Mark L. Chance.