Ten Arguments against Harry Potter

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TPJCatholic:
All good points. Yet for every soul that might turn to Christianity as a result of being involved with magic, etc., how many will be lost?
I’m afraid I’ve failed to make either myself or Chesterton clear.

I view Harry Potter as a fairy tale, as a story which upholds virtue and good against evil. I don’t think it’s as good as those in Brother’s Grimm (as neither J.K. Rowling’s moral perception or literary skill is up to the same standard) but I think it works in the same way as a fairly tale.

In other words, I don’t buy any of Ms. Kuby’s arguments, for reasons that other posters have already set out.

Chesterton never (that I’m aware of) practiced magic in any way. If he had, that would show that he missed the point of the fairy tales he finds so valuable.

Rather, Chesterton finds that the element of magic that Ms. Kuby objects to (and thinks should always be painted as an evil) adds to the good of fairy tales.

This does not mean that he thinks the specific practices (waving wands, saying spells) are good in themselves or add to the story in themselves. They are beside the point (as they are in Harry Potter.)

Chesterton’s point is that the element of magic in fairy tales teaches us to look on the world with wonder, because it forces us to acknowledge that we don’t (and in fact, can’t) understand everything thing in the world, just as we can’t understand how Cinderella’s godmother conjures the dress out of rags and the carriage out of a pumpkin.

“The only words that ever satisfied me as describing Nature are the terms used in fairy books, “charm”, “spell”, “enchantment.” They express the arbitrariness of the fact and its mystery. A tree grows fruit because it is a magic tree. Water runs down hill because it is bewitched.”… " (from The Ethics of Elfland in Orthodoxy)

In other words, Chesterton believes that fairy tales encourage a habit of mind that can lead one closer to believing in an infinite God whom we also cannot fully understand.

(And an attitude of wonder toward the created world is a needed antidote to the modern world which believes it understands so well as to dare to experiment with human cloning.)

I don’t think Ms. Kuby would understand or agree with Chesterton’s viewpoint, but I find his arguments for the value of magic in literature quite convincing.
 
Other Eric:
Hi DaveBj!

I have not read anything by J.K. Rowling insisting that because her books take place in some alternate universe, that our own moral code cannot be applied to them. It would be a stupid argument to make, because while the story may indeed take place in another universe, the books themselves exist in this one and so must conform to our moral standards.
She may or may not have said anything like that; I wasn’t quoting her in any case. I was referring to something that some other afficionado of fantasy fiction had said. Unfortunately, I am unable to lay my hand on the exact quote right now.

In any case, it certainly appears as if there is no God in the Rowling books. The only time the word appears is as a verbal punctuation mark in speech.
The comparison of fantasy literature to pornography is also, I think, a mistake. Pornographic media exists for no other reason than to showcase that which is sinful and present it as an objective good. The typical movie from the genre cannot tolerate even a coherent plot to get in the way of the sexual activity. It is meant to arouse feelings of lust. Fantasy literature, in the Harry Potter vein, only uses magic as a literary device. Indeed, in the Potter books, it is used as a device to reinforce the cardinal virtues.
I remain unconvinced. Both genres have their characters using what is described as sin by both the Bible and the Church in order to get done what they want to get done.

Experience from my previous life leads me to agree with you about the poor writing in pornographic movie “scripts.” However, I have also read printed literature that was very well written, and at the same time explicitly pornographic. Do we draw the lines based on the quality of the writing (a subjective judgment in any case), or on the literature’s promotion of actions that are condemned as sin (an objective judgment, based on the Bible and the CCC)?

remainder snipped

DaveBj
 
Other,

Nope, wrong again. 🙂

But, hey nice try.

I have said before, and say again now, there is nothing wrong with fiction or fantasy, so long as the fiction and fantasy world created are properly ordered. HP is not properly ordered, SW is. I am not justifying at all. If there was a moral disorder about SW then I would refuse to watch it…it is merely entertainment. HP is very strongly disordered material that has nothing good to offer.
 
wabrams,

I agree about LOTR, I disagree about Star Wars. LOR has magic and sorcery elements in it, though it does have a very clear depiction of good and evil. Star Wars is crystal clear as to the dark side being a satanic like force that people must stay away from.

BTW, it would seem fairly clear that if satan exists (as I sure believe he does), then he would be using any tool he can to deceive us.

Is the fall in the garden a myth?
 
pnewton,

You make good points about mythical lands, which HP is not. However, I would add that LOTR does have some elements that should be cautiously considered, whereas Star Wars is quite Christian in tone and feel. The force is quite often spoken of as a metaphor for the Holy Spirit (if we had the faith of a mustard seed we could tell this mountain to…).

HP creates a real world earth with real world sorcerers and real world magic, and both sides (good and evil) are using the evil tools of sorcery and magic…that is occult activity in a fiction form.
 
peregrnator,

Since I am noit familar with that work of Chesterton’s, I cannot make an informed response. I would say God’s comments usurp all human opinions.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Other,

Nope, wrong again. 🙂

But, hey nice try.

I have said before, and say again now, there is nothing wrong with fiction or fantasy, so long as the fiction and fantasy world created are properly ordered. HP is not properly ordered, SW is. I am not justifying at all. If there was a moral disorder about SW then I would refuse to watch it…it is merely entertainment. HP is very strongly disordered material that has nothing good to offer.
Hi TPJCatholic!

So I guess the devil has blinded you to the evils of necromancy and gnosticism. Wow. I’ll pray for you.🙂
 
Other,

Thanks, I always welcome prayers–even misplaced prayers. Since you are so kind as to pray for me, I will do the same for you. 🙂

Have a blessed and sorcery free weekend.
 
LOTR makes a complete distinction between good and evil. Furthermore, it is written purposely and disctinctly to include Christian and Catholic symbolism and themes by a fine Catholic author. Unfortunately, not all of the symbolism came across from book to film, although much did.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Other,

Thanks, I always welcome prayers–even misplaced prayers. Since you are so kind as to pray for me, I will do the same for you. 🙂

Have a blessed and sorcery free weekend.
Hi TPJCatholic!

Great. We can both welcome each other’s misplaced prayers.
 
Other,

I have a serious prayer request. I am going for gallbladder surgery Monday morning…prayers for a successful surgery with no complications would be much appreciated. 🙂
 
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TPJCatholic:
I have a serious prayer request. I am going for gallbladder surgery Monday morning…prayers for a successful surgery with no complications would be much appreciated. 🙂
Will do. Been there 8 years ago. In and out in about 24 hours.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Other,

I have a serious prayer request. I am going for gallbladder surgery Monday morning…prayers for a successful surgery with no complications would be much appreciated. 🙂
Hi TPJCatholic!

Not a problem.
 
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