Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns

[whatevergirl]

This article represents an interesting juxtaposition. Herein lies a metaphor for the very nature of mankind. We are made in God’s image and aspire to the higher things such as education. We are also fallen and often take the low road to the extent that deadly weapons are necessary sometimes when we interact.

So much for the perfectibility of man in this world. As necessary as this policy may be, it is not a cause for celebration but rather an acknowledgment of the stenchy side of man. It shines a light on an abject failure.

Oh wow, you put that so well. I couldn’t come up with the right words for how I am feeling about this. It might be necessary, but this is sooo not a call to rejoice. It is truly a sad commentary on how fearful we have become of one another.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

.

I have noticed you have not answered my questions to provide links or sources?

Why?

 

[TravisandJill]

I guess the moral of the story is if ya dont like the rules that Texas makes…dont move here

I was thrilled to hear the this news, its about time teachers are allowed to protect their students. Hoping more cities allow this as well

PS both dh and I have our conceil carry, we also have 4 guns…one being an assault rifle. We are not dangerous, we just like collecting guns:thumbsup:

 

[melensdad]

one being an assault rifle.

I prefer the term “sport utility rifle” It sound more like something a soccer mom would own

 

[The_Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
It happens. But if you think that’s the norm, you aren’t living in this universe.

That’s reassuring. After reading so many of your posts, Barb, I’m quite certain that I don’t want to live in your universe.

Reality can be kinda demanding, yes.

Barbarian observes:
“Crackhead”, um? Did you know that there’s no detectable behavior differences between crack use and snorting coke?

And if the indvidual in question is waving a pistol at you, what difference does it make?

Just doesn’t sound very professional on your part. Seems like a LEO ought to know better.

Barbarian observes:
Unless you do ER duty, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Sort of like you with police work.

You do know that the FBI and other agencies keep stats on this kind of thing?

Barbarian observes:
However, if you have some checkable numbers showing that most people on which police draw a gun are “Charging Crackheads”, I’d be pleased to see them.

I never said that, and you know it.

My statement was about what most people do in that circumstance. You responded about them being “crackheads.” Backpedalling noted.

Barbarian observes:
You’re arguing with yourself again. The issue is whether or not police generally shoot at someone after they draw a gun. Mostly, they don’t.

Well, you’d certainly know more about it than I would.

I would, of course, be willing to look at your numbers, and where you got them.

Oh, wait…

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Civilians are not trained regarding force and restraint? That’s odd. I guess I’ve just imagined participating in restraint techniques training related to my civilian employment as a teacher.

How odd.

In education, it means “restraining the student”, not “restraining yourself.” But it might be different for you.

 

[The_Barbarian]

(Barbarian observes that police tend to be better at ending a confrontation without resorting to violence)

I agree with this difference, except that I do not see that as a problem. An assailant is more likely to be killed, instead of disarmed, this way.

Problem is, with bullets flying in the classroom, it’s not just the assailant who is likely to die. But it’s not really about the safety of the students, is it?

 

[mlchance]

In education, it means “restraining the student”, not “restraining yourself.” But it might be different for you.

So, IOW, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The training very much involves exercising restraint even when applying restraint. And it’s not just me. There are literally hundreds of teachers in my school district alone who regularly go through such training.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[The_Barbarian]

The social problem with kids today, stems largely from their households, and from being bullied at school. I think that schools around the country, should implement strong anti-bullying laws, and enforce them.

This was the lesson driven home by the Colombine massacre. The students who killed all those people were repeatedly bullied and mocked by many other students. They were the rare ones who hit back.

A lot of this can be stopped by simply not tolerating bullying. And schools are doing a pretty good job of that.

 

[melensdad]

This was the lesson driven home by the Colombine massacre. The students who killed all those people were repeatedly bullied and mocked by many other students. They were the rare ones who hit back.

A lot of this can be stopped by simply not tolerating bullying. And schools are doing a pretty good job of that.

But that does not address anything ONCE THE SHOOTING STARTS.

Yes, every effort should be made to stop it long before the idea germinates in the mind. But if it starts then everyone in the building is simply a sitting duck. That is the reality of what the school in Texas was dealing with.

Problem is, with bullets flying in the classroom, it’s not just the assailant who is likely to die. But it’s not really about the safety of the students, is it?

It is my understanding that the teachers/faculty would ONLY draw a weapon in defense. By default that means that bullets are already flying before the faculty member draws a weapon. If it is not about the safety of the students then what is it about?

Oh wait, you’re going to bring up politics again

So tell me please, in the school districts where teachers and faculty have already been allowed to carry arms for many years, exactly how many students (or others) have been accidently shot?

…

I hear crickets chirping.

…

Still no answer?

…

The answer is ZERO.

None.

Nada.

Zilch.

…

Funny because you have claimed that it is more dangerous to the student for faculty to have arms. But that is not the case.

I guess maybe that you think repeating yourself over and over again will make it true?

NOPE. Your claim is still untrue.

 

[melensdad]

Actually the Columbine incident…those kids were ‘rich’ and ‘white,’ I believe.

Yes, I was referring to the fact that not all school districts can afford to hire the police officers that have been suggested be stationed in each school.

When I was little…around 6 y.o., my BIL was over my mom and dad’s house, and he was a cop. He hid his gun in a spot where he thought I wouldn’t find it, most likely. Well, it was in our basement…and I played a lot down there–and lo and behold…I found it. My parents hadn’t seen me for a few minutes…and went looking for me, shocked to see me with the cabinet open to our bar downstairs…looking at a gun. I just think that when we create a society that increases its need for guns, the society actually will become more fearful…not fearless.

Funny but it seems your parents missed a huge opportunity.

My daughter is a pretty good shot, she has 2 rifles of her own. Both are PINK

She knew we had guns in the house and we took the mystery out of them when she was young. She learned not to harbor any irrational fear of inanimate objects. We taught her respect for our property, and when she was older she learned how to shoot. She learned a lot, not the least of which is that there is a huge responsibility that comes with shooting. Its a great lesson for a parent to teach a child and an excellent lesson for a child to learn.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[wabrams]

Barbarian observes:
“Crackhead”, um? Did you know that there’s no detectable behavior differences between crack use and snorting coke?

Just doesn’t sound very professional on your part. Seems like a LEO ought to know better.

Barbarian observes:
Unless you do ER duty, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I think from all your statements you don’t have a clue about law enforcement/firearms training or healthcare, and this is coming from someone with some experience in both.

 

[rlg94086]

Yes, I was referring to the fact that not all school districts can afford to hire the police officers that have been suggested be stationed in each school.

Funny but it seems your parents missed a huge opportunity.

My daughter is a pretty good shot, she has 2 rifles of her own. Both are PINK

She knew we had guns in the house and we took the mystery out of them when she was young. She learned not to harbor any irrational fear of inanimate objects. We taught her respect for our property, and when she was older she learned how to shoot. She learned a lot, not the least of which is that there is a huge responsibility that comes with shooting. Its a great lesson for a parent to teach a child and an excellent lesson for a child to learn.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/melensdad/guns/1-5.jpg

I like the Pikachu target.

Don’t let Ribozyme see that!

 

[The_Barbarian]

I think from all your statements you don’t have a clue about law enforcement/firearms training or healthcare, and this is coming from someone with some experience in both.

You’ve given us considerable reason to doubt that. Of course, anyone can pose as anything on the net, but you should at least do a little research.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Barbarian points out that a far more effective way of avoiding violence is to stop bullying.

But that does not address anything ONCE THE SHOOTING STARTS.

That argument could be used to refute driver’s training because that does not address anything ONCE TWO CARS COLLIDE.

But if it starts then everyone in the building is simply a sitting duck. That is the reality of what the school in Texas was dealing with.

Really? Since we’re talking reality, how many shootings have they had at the school?

Barbarian observes:
Problem is, with bullets flying in the classroom, it’s not just the assailant who is likely to die. But it’s not really about the safety of the students, is it?

It is my understanding that the teachers/faculty would ONLY draw a weapon in defense. By default that means that bullets are already flying before the faculty member draws a weapon.

Turns out that there are a considerable number of CHL holders who have been arrested for threatening people with a gun. Not many in context of the quarter-million who have them, but infinitely more than the number of shootings at that school.

If it is not about the safety of the students then what is it about?

It’s just politics.

So tell me please, in the school districts where teachers and faculty have already been allowed to carry arms for many years, exactly how many students (or others) have been accidently shot?

So tell me please, in this school district, how many students have been shot in school?

The answer is Zero.

Nada.

Zilch.

Exactly. You are proposing a known hazard to correct something that has never happened there, and is, based on all the school shootings in the United States, likely to happen there about once every 12,000 years.

Funny because you have claimed that it is more dangerous to the student for faculty to have arms. But that is not the case.

One guy I know calls the lottery a “tax on stupidity.” People like you are the ones who spend large sums of money on something stupendously unlikely to happen.

But it’s not about the kids, is it?

 

[madam_ladybug]

Funny but it seems your parents missed a huge opportunity.

My daughter is a pretty good shot, she has 2 rifles of her own. Both are PINK

She knew we had guns in the house and we took the mystery out of them when she was young. She learned not to harbor any irrational fear of inanimate objects. We taught her respect for our property, and when she was older she learned how to shoot. She learned a lot, not the least of which is that there is a huge responsibility that comes with shooting. Its a great lesson for a parent to teach a child and an excellent lesson for a child to learn.

This education is not generally given in dysfunctional families and it is not possible to learn about gun safety without assistance from an adult. I have always felt that an education of this type should be a part of adolescent development, but the people who fear guns prevent it.

Whatevergirl, Guns don’t cause accidents, the ignorance of gun safety causes accidents. You didn’t say if the gun was loaded, but a gun to be stored in my house is unloaded, cleaned, and put in a safe place. Parents must assume that children will find them, and there should be more parents like melensdad.

 

[whatevergirl]

This education is not generally given in dysfunctional families and it is not possible to learn about gun safety without assistance from an adult. I have always felt that an education of this type should be a part of adolescent development, but the people who fear guns prevent it.

Whatevergirl, Guns don’t cause accidents, the ignorance of gun safety causes accidents. You didn’t say if the gun was loaded, but a gun to be stored in my house is unloaded, cleaned, and put in a safe place. Parents must assume that children will find them, and there should be more parents like melensdad.

I’m aware of that ladybug (love your username!) but, I can’t help but think violent incidences have grown worse when more and more civilians started buying guns for ‘safety.’

 

[melensdad]

That argument could be used to refute driver’s training because that does not address anything ONCE TWO CARS COLLIDE.

Nice sidestep to avoid dealing with the issue. Why won’t you actually deal with it?

Really? Since we’re talking reality, how many shootings have they had at the school?

Thank you for asking, ZERO. But the school is charged with keeping the children as safe as possible. It is interesting because they have a sprinkler system for fires, and fire alarms to alert for fires. Guess how many fires they have had. ZERO. Would you suggest that fire alarms, fire prevention, and sprinkler systems are also unnecessary?

Barbarian observes:
Problem is, with bullets flying in the classroom, it’s not just the assailant who is likely to die. But it’s not really about the safety of the students, is it?
…
Turns out that there are a considerable number of CHL holders who have been arrested for threatening people with a gun. Not many in context of the quarter-million who have them, but infinitely more than the number of shootings at that school.

Explain to me how this matters within the discussion. The fact that SOME people get arrested is a fact, won’t dispute it. But CCW holders get arrested at a far lower rate than the general public, consequently they are MORE trustworthy. Seems to me that the real people you need to worry about are the people who do NOT submit to the CCW testing because nationally they are TWICE AS LIKELY to commit crimes (often with guns).

You are proposing a known hazard to correct something that has never happened there

No. I am proposing nothing of the sort. **In fact you are the one who keeps tossing out the false statement that the teachers are a ‘known hazard’ when that is simply FALSE. ** You keep stating it. It was wrong when you first stated it. It is still wrong. Faculty members WITH GUNS have proved to be effective and have proved to be ZERO threat. It has been shown to be true when armed faculty members have SAVED LIVES in the USA and in ISRAEL.

But it’s not about the kids, is it?

Yes, no matter how you try to politicize it, it is about the kids.

One more time, here are the facts, faculty would ONLY draw a weapon in defense. By default that means that bullets are already flying before the faculty member draws a weapon. If it is not about the safety of the students then what is it about?

In the school districts where teachers and faculty have already been allowed to carry arms for many years, exactly how many students (or others) have been accidently shot?

…

chirp - chirp - chirp

…

I hear crickets, but still no answer!

…

The answer is ZERO. The answer has been ZERO.
…

Funny because you claim it is more dangerous to the student for faculty to have arms. But that is not the case. In fact there are cases where faculty has saved lives. No cases of faculty injuring students.

…

Your statement is wrong.

I guess maybe that you think repeating yourself over and over again will make it true?

NOPE. Your claim is still untrue.

 

[bilop]

Whatevergirl, Guns don’t cause accidents, the ignorance of gun safety causes accidents. You didn’t say if the gun was loaded, but a gun to be stored in my house is unloaded, cleaned, and put in a safe place. Parents must assume that children will find them, and there should be more parents like melensdad.

Unfortunately, an unloaded locked up gun won’t do you much good if you need it.

My two sisters and I grew up with guns in my house. There were two shotguns and a rifle in plain sight in my parents closet, and the ammo was on the shelf.

None of us ever thought of playing with them.

Half the households in the U.S. have guns, and the number of accidental firearms deaths among children is less the 100 per year.

With proper education and a little common sense, guns are just not dangerous.

A swimming pool is FAR more likely to lead to a child’s death (about 1000 per year in the U.S.).

God Bless

 

[whatevergirl]

Unfortunately, an unloaded locked up gun won’t do you much good if you need it.

My two sisters and I grew up with guns in my house. There were two shotguns and a rifle in plain sight in my parents closet, and the ammo was on the shelf.

None of us ever thought of playing with them.

Half the households in the U.S. have guns, and the number of accidental firearms deaths among children is less the 100 per year.

With proper education and a little common sense, guns are just not dangerous.

A swimming pool is FAR more likely to lead to a child’s death (about 1000 per year in the U.S.).

God Bless

you make an interesting point…I also wonder if there are stats (I’m sure there are) showing how many violent incidents in the home, have gone up, because families keep guns in the house for protection. It seems that every other day – I’m hearing about a husband who shot his wife and kids, and then himself. The gun is usually talked about as being already in the house for protection.