THE CAFETERIA IS CLOSED at St. John the Baptist School, Cost Mesa CA

[AuntMartha]

Penny Plain:

A Catholic school is for the children, not the parents.

I disagree with this.

The parents are absolutely a part of Catholic school - the kids don’t sign up, pay tuition, arrange for uniforms. The parents are an integral part of a Catholic schoolchild’s experience. It is a collaboration of students, teachers, and parents. Therefore it is imperitive that the parents of the children accepted into a Catholic school have morals that reflect the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[StJeanneDArc]

AuntMartha:

I disagree with this.

The parents are absolutely a part of Catholic school - the kids don’t sign up, pay tuition, arrange for uniforms. The parents are an integral part of a Catholic schoolchild’s experience. It is a collaboration of students, teachers, and parents. Therefore it is imperitive that the parents of the children accepted into a Catholic school have morals that reflect the teachings of the Catholic Church.

You put that very well–this has been my experience having my children at our parish school. It really is a community made up of families with the same goals for their children. We may differ some in the depth of faith, disciplinary style, and family makeup (there are children of divorced parents, at least one who lives with grandparents); but the goal is to raise children in the faith. How is this possible if you’re actively and publicly undermining moral law and natural law?

There was a very good article on this topic a few months ago (sorry, I don’t have the link handy) in which the author proposed designating some Catholic schools as “mission schools”. This would be to indicate that many or most of the children in these schools would be non-Catholic and/or from families the Church was trying to evangelize. In this way, parents who wanted to educate their children in a mostly Catholic environment could make an educated decision about these schools.

 

[GloriaPatri4]

StJeanneDArc:

There was a very good article on this topic a few months ago (sorry, I don’t have the link handy) in which the author proposed designating some Catholic schools as “mission schools”. This would be to indicate that many or most of the children in these schools would be non-Catholic and/or from families the Church was trying to evangelize. In this way, parents who wanted to educate their children in a mostly Catholic environment could make an educated decision about these schools.

Here is the article I believe you’re referring to:

From Mark Brumley’s comments

insightscoop.typepad.com/2004/2005/01/admitting_child.htmlhave

I have a hard time seeing any rationale for admitting children of homosexual couples, at least given the circumstances that obtain in most Catholic schools.
Personally, only in relatively rare instances would I admit non-Catholics to a Catholic school—even non-Catholic Christians. I would certainly not admit Catholics who deliberately, publicly and blatantly live contrary to the teaching of the Church, and teach their children it’s okay to do so, even if only by their bad parental example, whether the parents are fornicating, committing adultery, or engaging in homosexual acts. It’s simply not fair to the students, their families, the faculty, or to the children to be admitted.

I recognize there may be more room for discussion when it comes to people who aren’t publicly opposing Catholic belief and practice. That doesn’t seem to be the situation with same-sex people seeking to have their children admitted to Catholic schools.

Catholic schools have to decide whether they are (1) schools of Catholics committed to catechizing children in the Catholic faith and educating children in the Catholic liberal arts tradition (recognizing that there is an evangelization element in all catechesis and that any community of Catholics will have people who fall short of their ideal); (2) missionary endeavors where children (and indirectly their parents) are primarily being evangelized, not catechized, and hence may not believe at all or may hold and routinely practice any number of things gravely sinful; or (3) private schools that have only some vague association with the Catholic tradition and where all bets are off, except, perhaps, when it comes to “academic excellence,” whatever that is supposed to be.

If they are #3, I say shut them down. Let somebody else be in the private school business.

If they are #2, then they aren’t really “Catholic” schools, they’re “mission schools”. They are schools for pagans or semi-Christians who, one hopes, may become Catholic or fully Catholic. Catholic parents can’t responsibly send their children there, all other things being equal, because their children are as likely to be corrupted as catechized. Of course Catholic parents don’t always have a lot of choices and some parents may judge the mission school better than their other options. Fair enough. But we shouldn’t let those parents make a choice thinking that they’re choosing a fully Catholic school when they’re really in mission territory.

If they are #1, then they must be made up of children of parents who are intentionally Catholic and who, while they may from time to time succumb to sin, are nevertheless committed to repenting of their sin and striving, with the help of grace, to sin no more. In certain circumstances and with due regard for the good of others in the school, there may be a place for a certain number of children whose parents aren’t repentant for their sins but whose sins remain private or unknown to the school community. That’s very different from a person who either deliberately and publicly undertakes a sinful way of living or who denies (whether culpably or not) the Church’s teaching regarding marriage and family life.

Since homosexual parents are people who have chosen to live in a way that is contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church, it seems that they should not want to send their children to a school that, if it is true to its purpose and mission, must consider them to be living gravely sinful lives and at least by example if not by their instruction, corrupting the moral sensibility of their children. But in any case it certainly seems wrong for those in charge of the school to admit children whose parents so obviously oppose Catholic teaching.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

fix:

Credible allegations have been made that the bishop of Orange as well as three of his predecessors have turned a blind eye to at least one priest living in a notorious and open homosexual relationship.

Just a minor nit-pick. Bishop Brown is the third bishop of the diocese. He only has two predecessors.

 

[HumbleSinner]

Article:

planetout.com/news/article.html?2005/06/14/2

The Los Angeles Time published the memo obtained by a parent at St. John the Baptist School in Costa Mesa. The memo, dated May 6, states: “The children adopted by a same-sex couple” may enroll “on the condition that the same-sex couple agree not to present themselves as a couple at school functions.”

Cathy Jo Liebel, the president of the parent’s auxiliary for St. John the Baptist for 2003-2005, confirmed the existence of the memo to the PlanetOut Network.

“Father Martin Benzoni drafted the policy for the new school year starting in September,” she said. “He says it is ‘just discrimination.’ I don’t know how he can justify that. I can’t imagine not being allowed to watch my child participate in school.”

“He says we can’t have inappropriate behavior at the school, but I don’t walk without sin,” Liebel said. “Who does?”

 

[HagiaSophia]

Joe Kelley:

Just a minor nit-pick. Bishop Brown is the third bishop of the diocese. He only has two predecessors.

I can’t remember the one who preceded Stormin’Norman – do you?

 

[Promotor_Fidei]

Bishop William Johnson was the first bishop of Orange. Saintly man, but often ill.

rcbo.org/history/highlights.htm

 

[Marialis_Cultus]

Principal receives new contract offer

http://www.dailypilot.com/images/list_button.gifParents’ suspicions about Catholic school leader’s future are allayed.

By Michael Miller, Daily Pilot

Sister Mary Vianney, the principal of St. John the Baptist School for 31 years, has been offered a contract to return in the fall, quelling parents’ fears that church officials were planning to displace her.

Father Joe Fenton, a spokesman for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange, confirmed that Vianney had been offered a contract for the next school year. Father Martin Benzoni, the pastor of St. John who has authority over personnel, was not available for comment.

The announcement came after two days of protest by parents and students, who held a prayer vigil at the private Catholic school on Monday evening and who had planned to picket the diocese office in Orange on Wednesday. Many suspected that the church wanted to dismiss Vianney due to her alleged opposition to a proposal, made last month, to bar same-sex couples from visiting the campus together.

Parents close to Vianney said she objected to the proposal, which appeared in a May 6 memo distributed to teachers. Suzi Brown, the school’s parent auxiliary president, said that Vianney and church officials would meet privately with parents today to discuss the same-sex-couples policy, which the school has not officially adopted.

Word of Vianney’s retention first spread among parents on Tuesday night, as several reported speaking with her about the news. Joanne Krikorian, a mother of four whose youngest child graduated from St. John two weeks ago, called the church’s decision “the best news ever.”

“I called her and said, ‘Is it true?’” Krikorian said. “She said, ‘It’s true.’ She was elated as well. You could hear the happiness in her voice. It hadn’t been there in a month.”

Mary Neiger, the mother of a sixth-grader at the school, said she believed that the parents’ demonstrations had influenced the church in rehiring Vianney.

“She’s a very well respected and loved individual, so I’d hope that the voice of the parents would be heard,” Neiger stated.

In addition to the prayer vigil and the planned picketing at the diocese, members of the St. John community had started a campaign, called Save Sister, to fight for the principal’s retention. Brown and others created a website early this week inviting parents to post comments about Vianney and to donate money to her order of nuns.

With Vianney’s employment secure for next year, the school still faces the issue of the same-sex parents. In December, 18 parents signed a petition asking the school to remove two kindergarteners who had been adopted by a male Costa Mesa couple.

While Benzoni defended the boys’ right to attend the school, he noted at the time that the Catholic church did not condone homosexual unions or adoptions. The May 6 memo, which Fenton said the diocese is still reviewing, suggested a new rule that would allow same-sex parents to visit the campus but not as a couple.

• MICHAEL MILLER covers education and may be reached at (714) 966-4617 or by e-mail at michael.miller@latimes.com.

dailypilot.com/education/story/16183p-22562c.html

 

[Marialis_Cultus]

June 15, 2005

St. John parents stand by principal

http://www.dailypilot.com/images/list_button.gifSome allege Sister Mary Vianney wasn’t offered a contract due to flak over same-sex couple.

By Michael Miller, Daily Pilot

Parents are speculating that St. John the Baptist School has not rehired Sister Mary Vianney, its principal for 31 years, because of her opposition to a proposal about same-sex couples.

An official said that the diocese had still not made a decision regarding Vianney’s contract for next year. Father Martin Benzoni, the church’s pastor, has authority to make the final ruling; he did not return calls.

According to a May 6 memo sent to teachers at the private Catholic school, same-sex couples may enroll children at St. John on the condition that they not visit the campus together. A number of parents, who held a prayer vigil by the school Monday night for the retention of Vianney, claimed that she had fallen out of favor with church authorities over the proposal.

While Vianney was not available for comment, parents close to her said that she objected to the notion of barring individuals from the campus, and that this dispute was a possible factor in the church not offering her a contract for next year.

“As parents, we’re surmising this is the reason,” said Suzi Brown, the school’s parent auxiliary president. "We can’t say that it is.

“Sister, when presented with this policy, felt that it was discriminatory. She personally couldn’t enforce it. It’s our understanding that the policy would be enforced by the pastor.”

Father Joe Fenton, a spokesman for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange, said the memo was something the diocese was still reviewing. He added that he had not heard of Vianney being opposed to the item, although he had not spoken with her about it.

“The policy was never implemented,” Fenton said. “It was always a draft. It was interpreted by some people as a definite statement for some reason or another.”

The issue of homosexuality has troubled St. John recently. In December, 18 parents at St. John signed a petition to protest the school’s decision to enroll two kindergarteners who had been adopted by a male Costa Mesa couple. At the time, Benzoni said he disapproved of gay marriage, but he defended the boys’ right to attend the school.

The May 6 memo, which was obtained by the Pilot, does not directly refer to the Costa Mesa couple but proposes to add a passage to St. John’s 2005-06 parent-student handbook barring gay parents from visiting the campus together.

“The children adopted by a same-sex couple may enroll/will continue as students at St. John the Baptist School on the condition that the same-sex couple agree not to present themselves as a couple at school functions; in other words, they agree not [to] come together to school functions or events,” the memo reads, adding that the school will educate children while disapproving of the parents’ lifestyles.

Norbertines priests, a conservative Catholic order, took over administration of St. John the Baptist Church three years ago. All the church’s current priests, including Benzoni, are Norbertine. Fenton said that while Norbertines are traditional on issues such as homosexuality and birth control, he knew of no conflicts between Vianney and the church officials.

Many parents, however, remain apprehensive about the principal’s status. Today, members of a “Save Sister” campaign plan to hold another prayer vigil at the offices of the Diocese of Orange.

dailypilot.com/education/v-headlines_include/story/16089p-22401c.html

 

[Marialis_Cultus]

Published June 17, 2005

Catholic school announces no ban on couples

http://www.dailypilot.com/images/list_button.gifOfficials say they only considered not allowing same-sex partners to visit campus together.

By Michael Miller, Daily Pilot

St. John the Baptist School announced Thursday that it will not implement a policy this fall banning same-sex couples from visiting the campus together, ending weeks of speculation by parents and others in the community who opposed the idea.

At a parents’ meeting at the private Catholic school Thursday night, officials released the text of a new clause to be included in the school’s 2005-06 handbook. The clause features a shortened version of a controversial May 6 memo, which suggested barring same-sex couples from the campus unless they agreed to not visit together.

The policy for this fall, approved by Bishop Tod Brown of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange, reads: "No one in the context of the St. John the Baptist School community is to give witness to a lifestyle that is in conflict with the morality of the Gospel. A coherent witness to Catholic moral teaching is expected at the school, especially in behavior which is evident and public.

“Any other kind of behavior needs to be addressed and may need to be corrected. The Pastor is the final judge in applying this principle.”

The May 6 memo, which was distributed to teachers, contained the same language, but added a paragraph saying that the rule meant that same-sex couples could not set foot on campus together. Although the memo raised the ire of many in the community, a spokesman for the church said the proposal was merely under consideration and had never been approved by the diocese.

Father Norbert Wood, who was appointed as St. John’s new rector at the Thursday meeting, said the official rule meant that controversial issues at the school, such as same-sex parents, would be handled on a case-by-case basis.

“It refers to general situations where there’s a clash between parents’ lifestyles and Catholic tradition,” Wood said. “We’re committed to addressing those issues with charity but also fidelity to the Catholic faith.”

The announcement ended a week of confusion and tension in the St. John community. Many parents at the school believed that church officials wouldn’t rehire Sister Mary Vianney, the St. John principal for 31 years, because of her opposition to the same-sex-couples ban. On Wednesday, however, the diocese announced that Vianney had been offered a contract for the coming year.

After the Thursday meeting, Vianney said she never felt that her job was threatened, and that her opinion on the May 6 memo had no bearing on the church’s decision.

“I was fearful because [the contract] was later than usual, and that’s how the rumor got out,” Vianney said. “I was never told I was not going to have a contract.”

Vianney added that she and Wood, who is a member of the conservative Norbertine order, would work together as administrators at the school.

Parents expressed relief at the church’s decision not to implement a direct policy forbidding same-sex couples. The debate over homosexuality at the school began when 18 parents signed a petition seeking the removal of two kindergarteners who had been adopted by a male Costa Mesa couple.

“I welcome anyone who wants to bring their children to this school because I believe they’re going to be exposed to a great Catholic education,” said Tami McClary, whose daughter attends St. John. “I don’t believe any child or family should be discriminated against.”

dailypilot.com/news/story/16277p-22715c.html

 

[Marialis_Cultus]

Published June 14, 2005

Campaign: 'Save Sister’

http://www.dailypilot.com/images/list_button.gifParents contend that a Catholic school principal hasn’t been offered a new contract.

By Michael Miller, Daily Pilot

More than 100 parents and children crowded St. John the Baptist School Monday evening, praying out loud for the retention of a principal whose job they believe is in jeopardy.

The demonstrators contended that Sister Mary Vianney, the principal at St. John for 31 years, has not been offered a contract for the 2005-06 school year and that the church’s parish priests have been vague about her status. In response to the rumors, a group of parents has started a campaign called “Save Sister” to implore the church to keep Vianney in office.

On Monday, the crowd gathered between the school and the convent, where Vianney lives, reciting prayers and Hail Marys and reading passages from the Bible. Vianney, who taught at the school before becoming its principal, did not come outside to speak to the crowd.

Parents at the prayer vigil said Vianney has been a beloved figure in their community and expressed puzzlement over why the church, owned by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Orange, would want to let her go.

“I’m here because I cannot believe the amount of disrespect they’re showing to someone who’s dedicated 43 years of her life to the community,” said John Stephens, a member of the St. John church, with three children at the school. “We all love Sister. My kids have collectively had 17 school years here, and every year has been a good year.”

Father Martin Benzoni, the pastor of the Costa Mesa church, declined comment, and Father Gerry Horan, superintendent of schools for the diocese, did not return repeated calls. However, Father Joe Fenton, a spokesman for the diocese, said no official steps had been taken to discontinue Vianney’s employment.

“We have received no official notification,” Fenton said. “Every year, contracts come up for renewal. It’s up to the local pastor to determine what to do.”

Parents close to Vianney said she was unwilling to comment, but added that she had voiced concerns to them about her status in the fall.

“At this point, she has not been offered a contract,” said Cathy Jo Liebel, the president of St. John’s parent auxiliary for the last year. “We’re not quite sure why. They’re not telling us. She has asked why, and they don’t answer.”

Hoping to encourage the school to rehire Vianney for next year, the campaigners have started a website for St. John families to post comments and also invited the public to send donations to Sisters of Mercy in Santa Ana, the order to which Vianney belongs.

Suzi Brown, the school’s parent auxiliary president for next year, said the fund was for “anyone who’s sympathetic to Sister Mary’s situation and wants to make a donation in her name to the Sisters of Mercy.” She and Liebel said the funds had not been earmarked toward anything specific, although some parents had floated the idea of establishing a new school.

“We want to save our Sister,” Liebel said. “She means the world to us.”

dailypilot.com/education/story/16094p-22217c.html

 

[CARose]

What I don’t understand is that Sr. Vianney stated she was going to quit, and the next thing I hear is she’s complaining she didn’t get a contract renewal. I’m surprised she’s been offered the renewal.

CARose

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Marialis Cultus:

Published June 17, 2005

. . .
“Any other kind of behavior needs to be addressed and may need to be corrected. The Pastor is the final judge in applying this principle.”

. . .
Vianney added that she and Wood, who is a member of the conservative Norbertine order, would work together as administrators at the school.

. . .

dailypilot.com/news/story/16277p-22715c.html

Which leaves some ambiguity as to who is in charge - The pastor or Sister. I fear Father Norbert has a can of worms.

 

[CARose]

It also appears that he’s not getting the support one might expect from the diocese.

CARose

 

[InnocentIII]

Penny Plain:

I “condone” nothing. I got into this silly “debate” because of Fix’s suggestion that Catholic schools forbid the enrollment of all children whose parents live in public sin, or some such thing. (I forget the exact phrase, and I’m too lazy to go look it up, but I know a “decree of nullity” was in there someplace.) I think our Church and our schools should be open to all children, whether their parents are saints or sinners.

What then are Catholic schools for??? If Catholic scjhools are not to teach the faith then they are no longer Catholic schools (as indeed many aren’t - here in Australia as much as in the US)
If we are to accept ALL children, regardless of the beliefs and practices of the parents, then we are simply public schools paid for by parents rather than the state and might as well drop the Catholic, especially as that would mislead Catholic parents who were expecting their children to receive a Catholic education.

And if we do accept ALL children how long will it be (if not already) before we are told we cannot teach Catholic doctrine because it will disrespect the lifestyle and religious choices of the child’s family.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh but 8 years of teaching in a “Catholic” school have made me a tad cynical about the inclusive bit - it generally ends up being inclusive of everyone and everything except faithful Cahtolics.

On the original poll - I would make a further point. Here in Ozland there is this wonderful system for employing ex-brothers and ex-nuns as teachers and principals of schools. I feel that if one has abondened ones vocation one can’t just turn around and claim a compensation prize especially as many left their orders because they had issues with the teachings of the Church. The final irony in all this is the only requirement for teaching RE these days is a certificate of RE - anyone can get it and we actually have non-catholics and non-christians teaching Catholic RE.

No it is time that Catholic schools should be just that. As the documents of Vatican II state, Catholic schools are part of the Church’s mission not a sideline we run to raise money. Catholic schools for Catholic children with a clear understanding they will be taught the teachings of the Church including on homesexuality, marriage and abstinence.

 

[fix]

Here is the article I believe you’re referring to:

That is a great piece and raises some interesting ideas.

 

[SusanL]

InnocentIII:

What then are Catholic schools for??? If Catholic scjhools are not to teach the faith then they are no longer Catholic schools (as indeed many aren’t - here in Australia as much as in the US)
If we are to accept ALL children, regardless of the beliefs and practices of the parents, then we are simply public schools paid for by parents rather than the state and might as well drop the Catholic, especially as that would mislead Catholic parents who were expecting their children to receive a Catholic education.

And if we do accept ALL children how long will it be (if not already) before we are told we cannot teach Catholic doctrine because it will disrespect the lifestyle and religious choices of the child’s family.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh but 8 years of teaching in a “Catholic” school have made me a tad cynical about the inclusive bit - it generally ends up being inclusive of everyone and everything except faithful Cahtolics.

On the original poll - I would make a further point. Here in Ozland there is this wonderful system for employing ex-brothers and ex-nuns as teachers and principals of schools. I feel that if one has abondened ones vocation one can’t just turn around and claim a compensation prize especially as many left their orders because they had issues with the teachings of the Church. The final irony in all this is the only requirement for teaching RE these days is a certificate of RE - anyone can get it and we actually have non-catholics and non-christians teaching Catholic RE.

No it is time that Catholic schools should be just that. As the documents of Vatican II state, Catholic schools are part of the Church’s mission not a sideline we run to raise money. Catholic schools for Catholic children with a clear understanding they will be taught the teachings of the Church including on homesexuality, marriage and abstinence.

Amen, brother!!

 

[GloriaPatri4]

InnocentIII:

What then are Catholic schools for??? If Catholic scjhools are not to teach the faith then they are no longer Catholic schools (as indeed many aren’t - here in Australia as much as in the US)
If we are to accept ALL children, regardless of the beliefs and practices of the parents, then we are simply public schools paid for by parents rather than the state and might as well drop the Catholic, especially as that would mislead Catholic parents who were expecting their children to receive a Catholic education.

And if we do accept ALL children how long will it be (if not already) before we are told we cannot teach Catholic doctrine because it will disrespect the lifestyle and religious choices of the child’s family.

It would be very nice if Catholic schools could accept all children regardless of their parents beliefs or lifestyles but in our politically correct, tolerate and accept anything society it would be unfair to the parents and children who are really trying to practice and live the Catholic faith. Imagine in places like San Francisco or Los Angeles where same-sex couples with children are the norm. I’m sure some of the Catholic school in these areas have a pretty high proportion of homosexual parents. When these (same-sex) families make up the majority of a Catholic school the students/children at the school will no longer see a man and woman (mom and dad) as the normal family they will see the same sex (homosexual) couple as normal and they will see the heterosexual couple as a novelty or a relic of days gone by. How could you properly Catechize a child in this environment? It would be the "do as I say and not as I do (or what you see) teaching method.

Are Catholic schools to admit anyone simply based on their ability to pay or because they were baptized Catholic?

So many Catholic schools are just Catholic in name only and most of the good devout Catholic families wouldn’t go near a Catholic school, they home school.

 

[InnocentIII]

GloriaPatri4:

It would be very nice if Catholic schools could accept all children regardless of their parents beliefs or lifestyles but in our politically correct, tolerate and accept anything society it would be unfair to the parents and children who are really trying to practice and live the Catholic faith. Imagine in places like San Francisco or Los Angeles where same-sex couples with children are the norm. I’m sure some of the Catholic school in these areas have a pretty high proportion of homosexual parents. When these (same-sex) families make up the majority of a Catholic school the students/children at the school will no longer see a man and woman (mom and dad) as the normal family they will see the same sex (homosexual) couple as normal and they will see the heterosexual couple as a novelty or a relic of days gone by. How could you properly Catechize a child in this environment? It would be the "do as I say and not as I do (or what you see) teaching method.

Are Catholic schools to admit anyone simply based on their ability to pay or because they were baptized Catholic?

So many Catholic schools are just Catholic in name only and most of the good devout Catholic families wouldn’t go near a Catholic school, they home school.

Your have to question the motives of the parents. Does a gay couple send their child to a Catholic school to lern the FAITH? I think not. what happens when the child goes home and tells the dads or mums that he/she was told they were living in an immoral relationship? How does the child react to being taught one thing at school and being modelled another at home?

It is a sad reality that here at least many non-Catholics send their kids to Catholic schools because they are perceived to be an academically better version of public schools. They accept RE as a small price to pay especially as it is unlikely to seriously change their child’s way of thinking.

Islamic schools do not have this issue BECAUSE they teach the islamic faith and non-muslims run a mile from them. It’s time we insisted on practising Catholics for teachers (I realise that has some problems too but at least it’s a step forward) and CAtholic parents who support the MORAL teaching of the Church. After all are they not in partnership with the school in the teaching of their child.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

CARose:

It also appears that he’s not getting the support one might expect from the diocese.

CARose

I agree that he is not getting the support he should get. However, I am not sure how much support we could expect from the diocese.