The Catholic Church is WRONG about same sex marriage

[GayCatholic]

jESUS LOVES ME JUST THE WAY I AM. I AM CREATED IN GOD’S IMAGE AND I AM NOT ASHAMED.

 

[chevytruck]

GayCatholic:

I am a gay man, and I am Catholic, and YES a person can be BOTH and still find favor in God’s eyes. I am OPEN about my sexual orientation (God created me this way, I did not CHOOSE to be gay) and I am VERY ACTIVE in my church and I am part of the paid staff. There are many things I want to say on this topic. First off, God is LOVE and whenever 2 people enter into a loving relationship, God is present with them. I do not belive God intends for me to go through my life ALONE without the love and support of a spouse. And for me, my spouse would be another gay man. We have the same exact love any man and woman share, and love is never wrong. Love is a beautiful HUMAN expereince and it should not be denied to anyone.

1. You may not CHOOSE to be gay, but you CHOOSE to perform sodomy, which is sinful.
2. God intends for many people to go through life without a marital partner. This does not mean that you are “alone”.
3. Nobody should be denied love, but a sodomite relationship IS NOT LOVE.

I constantly have the same Bible versers quoted to me over and over… namely the story of Soddom and Gomorrah and a few other quotes. It always strikes me that when it comes to homosexuality, it seems it’s ok to take things out of context and to attach extraordinary moral value to a few lines of Biblical text. This is not done for any other issue except for homosexuality.

1. Most of the quotes ARE NOT OUT OF CONTEXT.

The Bible is full of laws and moral teachings on sex, dietary laws, agriculture, and marriage. What about the teaching that if a woman becomes a widow, she is to marry her husband’s brother. Why don’t we uphold that teaching from the Bible? In some of my religious education classes in high school and college, I remember teachers saying how many of the laws (like not planting two different crops in the same field) were part of an older system of moral teaching that is no longer applicable to God’s people today. We no longer put adulterous women to death, for example. But, we cling to the quotes about homosexuality in the Bible and say they still apply. Why is that? And why is that fair?
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There are teachings and prohibition found in the New Testament regarding sodomy.

The Catholic Church is not perfect. Over the last 2000 years mistakes were made, laws were changed, new interpertations of the Bible came to light. I believe it’s only a matter of time before the Catholic Church wakes up and changes it’s stand on homosexuality and same sex marriage.
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Do you mean abandon Her infallible teachings and “walk the liberal line?” Or do you mean cowtow to your own personal perceptions?

For right now, the gay community isn’t fighting for sacramental rights. We know the difference between equality and protection under the law and equality at the altar. We want LEGAL recognition of our life-long commitments as two people, fully in love, who want to share their lives completely with each other. We want the same legal rights and priviledges a man and woman get when they marry: things like filing joint taxes, inclusion in the family medical leave act, insurance coverage, and the hundreds of other rights and privieldges that comes with marriage. That is a start.
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What about incestuous (sp?) relationships? Or polygamy?

 

[chevytruck]

Once we become equal under the law, we’ll deal with making same sex marriage an equal sacrament in the Church. It will happen someday. I believe it is God’s will. It might take a while for the Church to recognize it as such, but it will happen.

I certainly hope not.

Afterall, the Church finally figured out the earth isn’t flat and that it actually revolves around the sun. People died for believing such things before the Church figured out where it went wrong. Ooops! Like I said, the Catholic Church is not perfect.

List one person who was killed for saying either a) the earth isn’t flat or b)the earth revolves around the sun.

And neither is marriage. If marriage is such a sacred institution, a sacramental covenant between God, a woman and a man, why is the divorce rate so high? Why are so many couples unfaithful to each other? Why is there so much domestic violence? Is this what you are protecting? Is this the sacred bliss you want to deny to same sex couples? I heard one comedian on tv say, “I’m for gay marriage, I think they should be just as miserable as the rest of us!” And then there are the Britney Spears and the Liza Menelli’s, the Liz Taylors and the Jennifer Lopez’s of the world who treat marriage like a joke. Why doesn’t the Catholic Church speak out about these things?
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So, because there are some people that do not follow the teaching of the Church on Marriage (most of whom ARE NOT CATHOLIC) we should abandon a Holy Sacrament instituted by our Lord and Savior?

The Catholic Church has lost it’s hold on the bedroom. Many Catholics disregard Church teachings about contraception, sex outside of marriage, adulty and divorce. Yet there is no outcry about these issues either. The outcry only comes when two men or women who love each other want to share thier lives together and be treated equally with the same rights and priviledges as everyone else.
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One man’s sin is not an excuse for another’s.

It’s enough to make me ashamed to be Catholic or even a Christian. And people ask me why don’t I just leave the Catholic Church and join one that is more accepting. Well, my honest answer is this: God has made it clear to me that He wants me to stay in the Catholic Church, to speak out and to help correct what is wrong, and I say to Him “Thy will be done…”
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There is nothing wrong with the Church’s teaching on Marriage. His Will is spoken in the Bible and Sacred Tradition, and there is nothing in either allowing sodomy, or a homosexual marriage.

Are you sure you wouldn’t be happier in the Episcipalian Church?

I still here the saying “What would Jesus do?” I know, when I get married to the the MAN that I love, and when we make our vows before God, Jesus will be with us, celebrating with us just as He did at the wedding in Cana. Because God is love, and love is never wrong.

SODOMY is wrong, therefore, it CANNOT be love.

 

[GayCatholic]

Pope John Paul II (June 4, 2004):

“Rights are at times reduced to self-centered demands: the growth of prostitution and pornography in the name of adult choice, the acceptance of abortion in the name of women’s rights, the approval of same sex unions in the name of homosexual rights…”

"In the face of such erroneous yet pervasive thinking, U.S. Bishops should stress to congregations their special responsibility for evangelizing culture and promoting Christian values in society and public life."

… the approval of racial equality in the name of African American rights…

… the abolition of slavery in the name of freedom…

… the denounciation of apartheid in the name of equality…

…the approval of handicap parking spaces in the name of rights for the disabled…

YES, injustice must be confronted in all of it forms wherever it is found. Same sex marriage is a RIGHT, not a demand.

 

[kellie]

GayCatholic:

And I am normal. Homosexuality is not a mental disease or defect. Check the DSMIII if you don’t believe me.

You are normal, your act of homosexuality isn’t.

To be abnormal does not mean to be mentally impaired or defective. It means not typical, usual, or regular; not normal; deviant.

Love Kellie

 

[agname]

Approved by Pope John Paul II…

**“Marriage exists solely between a man and woman … Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law.”

“Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behavior … but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity.” **

(“Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons,” Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, July 31, 2003).

The document, which was two years in the making, called on Roman Catholic lawmakers to vote against bills legalizing gay marriage, and where they already exist, work towards repealing them.

In regards to adoption…

“Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such (homosexual) unions would actually mean doing violence to these children … (placing) them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development.”

 

[GayCatholic]

lena:

I respect your honesty and courage. Personally, I see all human-beings, gay, non-gay, white, black, brown , the same. All human beings are created by God and are equally loved by God.

We as human-beings are fallible. Jesus by His holy example has shown us that despite all the wrongs which have done to Him on earth, He forgave and returned with love. Hence, I do not hate Muslims nor Saddem. After all, as Jesus had said to those that threw stones at Mary Magdalene, he who has not sinned can cast the first stone.

I frimly believe in peace and prefer to resolve issues with love and patience rather than war and hatred.

Anyway, my point is, gay or non-gay, as God’s children, He will always loves us.

I hope you will live happily and be embraced in God’s graces.
Lena

AMEN sister…and right back at you

 

[BK80734]

I PROPHET IS NEVER WELCOME IN HIS HOME TOWN. I DON’T EXPECT THE TRUTH TO BE MADE EVIDENT TO EVERYONE IMMEDIATELY. HUMAN BEINGS ARE STUBBORN. AND A PROPHET’S WORK IS NEVER EASY.

“False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect.” Matt. 24:24.

 

[agname]

The comparison between racial rights and homosexual rights (a moral issue)…is fallacious.

At no point in history were homosexuals considered 3/5 a person. At no point in history have homosexuals been denied that right to vote. At no point in history have homosexuals been sent to different schools. At no point in history have homosexuals been forced to use separate water fountains…restaurants…public bathrooms, etc. At no point in history have homosexuals been forced to sit in the back of a bus.

Homosexuality is deviant…abnormal behavior. If one recognizes a homosexual marriage…then one must recognize other abnormal relationships…polygamy…beastality…etc.

 

[BK80734]

Charles Manson (or insert anyone you can think of who has committed some sort of undeniably soul-endangering sin) was created in God’s image. Jesus still loves him. But trust me: Jesus despises the sin.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere.

As a Catholic, you know that without benefit of marriage, you are called to live a chaste life. The same goes for heterosexual unmarried people. Marriage is not an option for same-sex couples in the Church because it is against the natural law. I believe that you were created with your orientation, but it is up to you to use it as a gift (remaining celibate - concentrating on eternal life), or to squander it (remain sexually active in a disordered relationship.

If you really are serious about your faith, this requires much soul-searching and sacrifice. Every single one of us are called to embrace our cross, and every single person on these forums have suffered. There is much grace in suffering (but of course you have probably heard that). Just because of the nature of your sexual orientation, you are not allowed to do what you want. You need to do what is right.

I’m certain you have probably heard of COURAGE. It is a wonderful ministry. Please check out their website: couragerc.net/

If you come here looking for help and prayer, you will most certainly receive it. If you come here looking for a fight and change, this may not be the place for you. God bless you. This is not an easy burden you bear.

 

[GayCatholic]

chevytruck:

I certainly hope not.

List one person who was killed for saying either a) the earth isn’t flat or b)the earth revolves around the sun.

In 1633, the Roman Catholic Inquisition sentenced Galileo to life in prison for teaching the Copernican theory that the earth revolves around the sun.

Unrepentant men found guilty of heresy were handed over to the State for punishment, even though Church authorities did not always agree with the State’s punishments. We must realize that in handing over the condemned heretic to the secular power, the Church knowingly was handing over the condemned for punishments ranging from imprisonment to burning at the stake.
(Inquisition in the Catholic Church BENJAMIN D. WICKER)

This is only the tip of the iceberg…

 

[GayCatholic]

SODOMY is wrong, therefore, it CANNOT be love.

is that all you think of about homosexuals? I am gay and have never participated in sodomy… if you mean anal sex. besides, that something heterosexuals do just as much as homosexuals. this is NOT about SEX. it’s about rights, and about treating others as you want to be treated…and it’s about LOVE. who are you to tell me that the love i have for my boyfreind is not true love or not right? LOVE IS NEVER WRONG. LOVE IS BEAUTIFUL. GOD IS LOVE!

 

[Deacon2006]

There are many types of love. Unfortunately you are speaking of a disordered sort of love like the way a junkie speaks about the love they have for the needle. Some say they never get over the rush no matter how long they go cold turkey. Similarly some say they can never forget the illict sex they have had. For this is the deadly path of vice that corrupts your soul little by little, step by step.

You don’t need theology to know that what you are talking about is disordered, science tells us that gay lifestyles cause premature death for both men and women by decades. It would be like saying smoking is as natural as breathing clean mountian air.

Absolutley no homosexual sexual friendship can ever rise to what is intended by God in fruitful matrimony. The evidence is before your eyes when you look in a mirror you were meant for another. The fulfillment of your sexual being as designed by God can only be achieved through the nuptial act between a man and a woman. Homosexual unions are are always destructive to health, masturbative and sterile.

These are not the words of milk and honey but the stakes are too high for you not to hear the truth. I also understand that what I have said does not help reduce the pain right now and we all know you may never alter your homosexual orienation even if you could curb your behavior. No post from a board such as this can alleviate the damage that has been placed at your door. I will pray for you so you may find the strength to deal with your burden. I also encourage you to seek out the Catholic support group called Courage to help with the healing. Your diocese will have a local contact for to call.

May God Bless You and Heal you from all that assails you. Your Church loves you as God loves you. Place yourself in your loving mother’s arms and ask Mary to keep you safe until you are ready to confront the more painful issues you will have to face in the years to come.

 

[GayCatholic]

BK80734:

Charles Manson (or insert anyone you can think of who has committed some sort of undeniably soul-endangering sin) was created in God’s image. Jesus still loves him. But trust me: Jesus despises the sin.

and let he who is without sin cast the first stone… bigotry, discrimination, homophobia… these are sins!

 

[GayCatholic]

Detroit Sue:

As a Catholic, you know that without benefit of marriage, you are called to live a chaste life. The same goes for heterosexual unmarried people…

some one better remind out priests about this.

 

[GayCatholic]

Deacon2006:

There are many types of love.

yes… and love is a good thing.

i have started a group for gay and lesbians in my hometown and we have support groups and bible study, and we even go to MASS and take communion. our faith is strong.

 

[Deacon_Dan]

GayCatholic:

The Catholic Church is not perfect. Over the last 2000 years mistakes were made, laws were changed, new interpertations of the Bible came to light

So many issues here, I do not know where to start, but let’s start with what I have quoted here.

The Catholic Church IS perfect. The church is built on God’s Word and it indeed is perfect. So if God’s Word is perfect then the church built on it has to be too. Have there been mistakes made by some of the men and leadership in the church? Yup, but that does not negate God’s Word at all. Have laws of discipline such as meat on Fridays or how long a fast before communion changed? You bet. These man made laws are changed to help us to better understand and serve God. Has the church’s interpertations of the Bible changed? NOPE, never. What the RCC teaches today about the Bible is the same thing that it was teaching in the year 33 C.E.

We have to seperate the laws of discipline from our understanding of the Bible as it is not the same thing. Throughout the years the church has explained things differently in regards to parts of the Bible, but not changed the meaning, but simply explained differently to help us to understand better or to clarify previous teachings that may have been foggy. For example, sometimes my wife will not understand something that I am trying to explain to her. I may try to show it to her in different ways. I may go deeper in my explanation and sometimes, I even come from a totally differnent direction, but my point is still the same. I am just trying to explain it differently so she understands what I am trying to say.

Now as far as homosexuality… You have already heard it, but it is not being a homosexual that is the sin, but it is the act itself that makes it a sin. Sex outside of marriage period, whether it is homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual or Bill Clinton’s definition of sex it is still sinful. Any sex outside of marriage is against God’s will. That was the same in the year 34 C.E. and the same in the year 2004 C.E. and will still be the same if there is a year 3004 C.E.

So now you say ok you will get married to the same sex. Well despite what San Francisco does or Massachucess says, it may be legal but it is not moral. It is not of God. Any sexual act should result in the possibility of procreation. Homosexual activity does not, will not and can not result in procreation. If a married man and woman engages in sex and creates barriors to procreation then that sexual act would be sinful also.

The whole purpose of sex in marriage is to procreate so engaging in homosexual sex immediately creates that barrior and would not be lecit.

God is Love and He loves the homosexual as we all should also. Just as some heterosexuals become celebant either because of a Religious vow or a personal decision, so must the homosexual. The sin of a homosexual act is no greater than adultry or masterbation or any other sin, but it is still sin. This is not a condemnation but just a statement of fact. You can not deny God’s Word on this no matter how you try to shape it.

I really do not believe that God creates people to be homosexual, but I do believe that most homosexual do not choose to be homo either. It is through situations, experiences that causes one to not want to seek the opposite sex. That does not make you bad in any way, but you, just as the single hetero can not engage in sex outside of marriage nor can the homosexual.

So whether you are homo or hetero, seek God’s strength to resist the temptation to fall info sin because of a fleshly desire. It is not easy, but with God, we can move mountains. But then you knew that already.

 

[GayCatholic]

agname:

Approved by Pope John Paul II…

**“Marriage exists solely between a man and woman … Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law.” **

**“Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behavior … but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity.” **

(“Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons,” Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, July 31, 2003).

i have just as much right to marry and adopt and raise children as anyone else. the time is coming when the Church will recognise this too. God has not forgotten his gay and lesbian sheep.

The document, which was two years in the making, called on Roman Catholic lawmakers to vote against bills legalizing gay marriage, and where they already exist, work towards repealing them.

In regards to adoption…

“Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such (homosexual) unions would actually mean doing violence to these children … (placing) them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development.”

 

[GayCatholic]

“False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect.” Matt. 24:24.

judge not…lest ye be judged!

isn’t it cool how quotes from the bible can be used on both sides of the issue???