The Chosen People

[Answersplease]

I am hardly an expert on Catholicism and would be happy to find out that I am wrong. However, I am basing myself on things that have been written to that effect repeatedly on this forum at various times.Now would you accuse those posters who have repeatedly stated that there is no salvation outside the Church as anti-Catholic who are slandering the Catholic Church or are such epitaphs aimed merely at someone like myself?

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I am basing myself on things that have been written to that effect repeatedly on this forum at various times

So a few poster are enough for you to indite an entire religion, nice way to think. (sarcasm)

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Now would you accuse those posters who have repeatedly stated that there is no salvation outside the Church as anti-Catholic who are slandering the Catholic Church

No I would’nt because saying that there is no salvation outside the church is very DIFFERENT than saying that
It is Catholicism which teaches that anyone who does not believe what you do cannot find “salvation”.

It is Catholicism which teaches that anyone who does not believe what you do cannot find “salvation”?

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are such epitaphs aimed merely at someone like myself?

How nice of you to play the victim when you are very quick to play the anti-semitism card anytime someone criticizes any Jews.
Are Jews above criticism?​

My orginal post still stands, cite a source or admit that you are wrong.

It is Catholicism which teaches that anyone who does not believe what you do cannot find “salvation”?

 

[DonLeon]

The meaning of “chosen people” from a Jewish perspective has nothing in any way to do with superiority toward anything or anyone else. The meaning of chosen people is that Jews have taken on the extra burden of Torah and following the commandments. Judaism even teaches that God offered the Torah to all the other nations before the nation of Israel. It is Catholicism which teaches that anyone who does not believe what you do cannot find “salvation”. Judaism teaches that it is easier for the Gentile to get into the world to come than for the Jew.

Besides your explanation above, aren’t the Jews primarily “Chosen” as the people from
whom the Messiah is to come from, for the salvation of the world?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Answersplease]

Note to Roy5:

I am not Jewish but I must state this in their defense. The Jew which you say is the trouble maker in many instances, is a Jew in name only. He is a secular Jew. I have never know a truly religious Jew, Orthodox, conservative, or reformed, to cause any
trouble or problem other than what we Christians do. Do not blame all Jews for what one
Jew does. Please learn the difference. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I did not blame all Jews, so don’t put words in my mouth.

 

[DonLeon]

I did not blame all Jews, so don’t put words in my mouth.

I did NOT say you did. The post was for Roy5. Anyway, most comments about Jews seem to do so. A clarification of your comments, or meaning, would be helpful.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Well for instance if someone - say yourself- posted something to the effect that that Jews are killing thousands of Palestinian (Arabs) everyday or if someone posted a really anti-Semitic post stating that Jews are responsible for their being hated by others and for 9/11 and then someone - say yourself- posted something like “great post” or if someone - say yourself- just wrote a post referring to “the Jews” or made statements in the post such as “Jews are not a superior race” which would imply that is what they claim to be - why I would certainly hope we could choose the kinder alternative that he is in fact simply a blatant anti-Semite.

However since you have pointed out that you are not an anti-Semite I am sure you will be open to the following:

The meaning of “chosen people” from a Jewish perspective has nothing in any way to do with superiority toward anything or anyone else. The meaning of chosen people is that Jews have taken on the extra burden of Torah and following the commandments. Judaism even teaches that God offered the Torah to all the other nations before the nation of Israel. It is Catholicism which teaches that anyone who does not believe what you do cannot find “salvation”. Judaism teaches that it is easier for the Gentile to get into the world to come than for the Jew.

Now I may be wrong but I often get the feeling that some Catholics feel that the Jews should be punished for their rejection of Catholic beliefs and that the strengths and successes of Jews is somehow in opposition to the natural and proper order of things. Is there some basis for this feeling?

But the Jews ARE killing Palestinians. Whoever said Jews were responsible for 911 is ridiculous. They were Moroccan Muslims and Saudi Arab Muslims.
8 out of 14 were Moroccan.
Anyway. I’ll also point out that Palestinians also kill Jews but the Jews live much better than they do.
Christ came to start a New Covenant. Because He came to save His people, they would not listen nor want to believe in Him. It is not a “Catholic belief” in how one may be saved, but Christ’s Word.

 

[Lev23]

But the Jews ARE killing Palestinians. Whoever said Jews were responsible for 911 is ridiculous. They were Moroccan Muslims and Saudi Arab Muslims.
8 out of 14 were Moroccan.
Anyway. I’ll also point out that Palestinians also kill Jews but the Jews live much better than they do.
Christ came to start a New Covenant. Because He came to save His people, they would not listen nor want to believe in Him. It is not a “Catholic belief” in how one may be saved, but Christ’s Word.

Your singling out the Jewish nation can be considered boasting against the branches.

St.Paul warned Christians of this 2000 years ago, but obviously you care not about this.

And Christ’s Word of the New Covenant is made with the House of Israel and Judah(Jeremiah 31:31).

 

[Lev23]

NO CHOSEN PEOPLE

 The notion that God has chosen any one race or ethnic group over all others strikes me as silly. To begin with, the Bible tells us that God is no respecter of any particular group. We also read that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, male or female, etc. Besides, Jesus often lifted up non-Jews for special praise. For example, the Good Samaritan - while the priest and Levite passed by on the other side. And who was the one leper of ten healed who returned to give thanks? The Samaritan.

  Why have the Jews faced persecution in past years? Let me suggest a few reasons.

(1) As stated already, they refused to ‘integrate’ into the larger society. (2) They often looked down on the goyim - gentiles - and Orthodox Jews would, for example, declare a son or daughter dead if he or she married a goy. (3) In the ‘old days’ some would libel Jesus as a bastard child and worse. (4) They were, as a rule, quite successful, which led to resentment and jealousy. (5) Often they got into businesses that some felt exploited others - e. g., lending, even peddling. (6) Catholicism once charged them with crucifying Jesus, quoting scriptural texts, and there even was a prayer until recent decades about the ‘perfidious Jews’. (7) The gospel of John, in particular, could be quoted against the Jews - and even now it is awkward when certain scriptural passages are read that tell of “for fear of the Jews” - etc.

   In more recent years anti-Semitism has swelled in much of the world because tens of millions of people feel that Israel has learned little from the holocaust and has been grossly unfair to the Palestinians. It was enough to drive them from their homes in 1948, but to grab considerably more land in a 'preemptive war' Israel launched in 1967 was seen as wrong, and now Israel keeps expanding settlements, even in the face of opposition for many years from the USA, which has always backed Israel financially, militarily and diplomatically. Many Americans quietly resist the temptation to embrace anti-Semitism while, at the same time, they are angered and disgusted with the control the Israel lobby exercises over our Congress and others high in our government. Many even trace the roots of 9-11 to American subservience to Israel and its expansionist policies. The USA had suffered enormously - and is still suffering - because our policy toward Israel is not fair or balanced as it should be. I hope our government will change course and bring justice and peace to the Holy Land. I have been there on four pilgrimages and my heart goes out to the suffering Palestinians, many of them Christians. More and more US Jews are beginning to understand how Israel's policies hurt both Israel and the US over the long run. 

  God bless the Jews, the Palestinians, and the whole world. May hatred cease and we all live in peace and mutual respect.

What you(and many) are forgetting is that Israel(Jews) are God’s original covenant people, and nothing replaces that.

You are forgetting the the Gentiles that come into the Church are made one new man with the Jew, and vice versa.

The middle wall of partition being taking down means nothing if Gentiles are made one new man with another Gentile. And the same goes with the Jew. The miracle is that the individuals from all the Gentile nations join with chosen Jewish nation in the Church, both equal in Jesus Christ.

My point is that outside the Church there still is Jew and Gentile.

OneCathApos has it wrong(big time) because he says the Gentiles are solely the Chosen people, when in reality the Church is comprised of Jews and Gentiles made one new man. But outside the Church, the Jews who are considered broken branches, still have prophecies concerning their restoration to God as a nation. Though it is far better for a Jew to be one new man in Christ now. The Gentile nations in prophecy only have judgement facing them from God on how they treated the Jewish nation of Israel. And like sheep and goats, they are separated by Jesus for how they treated His nation.

We, the Church, know better than to boast over Israel, wheter in dispersion or not.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

What you(and many) are forgetting is that Israel(Jews) are God’s original covenant people, and nothing replaces that.

You are forgetting the the Gentiles that come into the Church are made one new man with the Jew, and vice versa.

The middle wall of partition being taking down means nothing if Gentiles are made one new man with another Gentile. And the same goes with the Jew. The miracle is that the individuals from all the Gentile nations join with chosen Jewish nation in the Church, both equal in Jesus Christ.

My point is that outside the Church there still is Jew and Gentile.

OneCathApos has it wrong(big time) because he says the Gentiles are solely the Chosen people, when in reality the Church is comprised of Jews and Gentiles made one new man. But outside the Church, the Jews who are considered broken branches, still have prophecies concerning their restoration to God as a nation. Though it is far better for a Jew to be one new man in Christ now. The Gentile nations in prophecy only have judgement facing them from God on how they treated the Jewish nation of Israel. And like sheep and goats, they are separated by Jesus for how they treated His nation.

We, the Church, know better than to boast over Israel, wheter in dispersion or not.

You gotta be kidding me. Now you are blaming the Gentiles for your people turning their backs on God. Sounds like a victim then, 2,000 years later…still a victim. Why is it that not one Jew will admit they broke the Covenant with God and roamed the desert for forty years because they refused to listen to Him. God called you a “stiff-necked people”. In the Old Testament, the Jews would not listen to God. They made their own rules. God has so much mercy.

 

[DonLeon]

You gotta be kidding me. Now you are blaming the Gentiles for your people turning their backs on God. Sounds like a victim then, 2,000 years later…still a victim. Why is it that not one Jew will admit they broke the Covenant with God and roamed the desert for forty years because they refused to listen to Him. God called you a “stiff-necked people”. In the Old Testament, the Jews would not listen to God. They made their own rules. God has so much mercy.

Please keep in mind that God made an everlasting covenant with the Jews. Even though they turned their backs on Him many times, that covenant is still in effect. They are stilll His people, like it or not.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[KyivAndrew]

Food for thought from First Things, the religious journal edited by the late conservative Catholic priest Father Richard John Neuhaus who was quite good friends with Rabbi David Novak of U of T, who was also on First Things editorial board. This I quote from David Novak’s article to simply illustrate how Novak and Neuhaus attempted Jewish/Catholic dialogue. Rabbi Novak writes:

"No one, save a prophet, could have predicted the radical change in the relationship
between Jews and Christians since Western civilization narrowly escaped physical
and moral annihilation in the Second World War. Having narrowly escaped physical
annihilation, Jews have had to look at the world surrounding us anew. There
some of us have discovered Christians facing us on the immediate horizon in
a new and favorable way. Having narrowly escaped moral annihilation, Christians
have also had to look at the surrounding world anew. There some Christians have
discovered Jews on the immediate horizon in a new and favorable way. This mutual
discovery of each other in new ways can be located on three levels.

First, mutual discovery has occurred on the theological level. Through sound
historical scholarship, more Christians than ever before have learned how close
Christianity has always been to its Judaic roots. The current Christian retrieval
of Christianity’s true origins has looked not only to the Hebrew Bible but also
to the Second Temple Judaism out of which Judaism until this very day has been
emerging. That is why Judaism can no longer be dismissed as an historical relic,
as mere proto-Christianity. Through the very same type of scholarship, Jews
have discovered that Christianity is not a one-time deviation from Judaism.
Rather, Christianity has been developing in a trajectory continually parallel
to that of Judaism. Jews need to see how much Christianity has had to be similar
to Judaism in order to continually differ from it. From this some Jews have
learned that we can discuss the Torah with Christians in a way we cannot discuss
it with any other gentile people. Thus Jews and Christians today have found
a way to talk to and with each other that is mutually affirming and that need
no longer be either offensive or defensive, as interaction so often was in the
theological disputations of the Middle Ages and the ideological polemics of
earlier modernity.

For most Jews, election begins at birth; it thus precedes any choice on the
part of the Jew. As for those who convert to Judaism, their decision must be
conceived as a compulsion that originally comes from God alone. Their free consent
is a necessary but not sufficient condition of their being accepted as Jews.
The same is true for Christians. If baptism is indelible, and if most Christians
are baptized as infants, then most Christians become Christians like most Jews
become Jews. This is so even in the cases of Christians who are “born again”
and who are baptized as adults. Birth is, after all, the most involuntary event
possible. (Incidentally, the term “born again” appears in Greek in the New Testament
and in Hebrew in the Talmud.) It is only a modern, voluntaristic view of the
covenant as a social contract that supposes that being a Jew or being a Christian
is an individual option that is initiated or terminated by human will."

I cannot decide things for other people and can’t claim exactly where I stand on the article but opening one’s eyes and learning is always beneficial. Here is the link to the full article: firstthings.com/article/2007/06/002-jews-christians-and-civil-society-35

May God Bless us All!

 

[Roy5]

CHOSEN PEOPLE?

Let me pursue this a bit further, and I'm aware that many will not agree. So be it. I assume this is a place to present differing viewpoints.

I don't happen to believe in any Chosen People. God is just and fair, so how can he favor one race or ethnic group over another? It's like saying that God favors white people or Asians or Americans. Just isn't something I believe. Frankly, I can't believe that God ordered Joshua to kill the inhabitants of Jericho, of Ai, etc. Ot, that God commanded Saul to slaughter every last Amalekite. How could God, who gave us the Ten Commandments, give such an order? How many innocent children, many still in the womb, were killed? I could not worship such a monstrous god anymore than I could admire an Adolph Hitler or a Joseph Stalin!

 Now, I did not say (as Chosen People charges) that Israelis are killing thousands oif Palestinians every day. It is not ethical to misquote someone so falsely. I do say that the Palestinians have been cruelly treated by the Israelis, that far more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis. I oppose terrorism in any form, but terrorism can be committed by a state like Israel as much as by individuals. If Israel is genuinely interested in fairness and peace, why does it keep building more and more settlements on the West Bank, even though the USA has again and again opposed this? The reason is they want 'facts on the ground' so that it will be too difficult to remove all those people - maybe 400,000 or so already? Pure land grabbing. Sadly, the Israel Lobby is so powerful - because of money, votes and other forms of intimidation - that our Congress, as Pat Buchanan says, is 'occupied territory'. 

 Okay. What about 9/11? Here is my point. Hatred of the USA in the Muslim world can be trace initially to wholesale US support of Israel. We didn't seem to give a hoot for the rights or welfare of Palestinians. We preached justice and democracy but didn't practice what we preached. This hatred escalated for addition reasons, such as US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia. I would suggest that if the USA had used it good offices and influence they could have forced a just agreement years ago, certainly soon after the Israelis launched the 'preventive' Six Day War om 1967. So, I trace 9-11 back to the Israel-Palestine issue. The vast majority of the world's population hates Israel. Polls have shown repeatedly that it is the country most distrusted - and it has a sizeable cache of nuclear weapons, won't sign agreements limiting them, etc. It thunbs its nose at the rest of the world.

  I wrote earlier that I have been on four pilgrimages to the Holy Land. Three of our Israeli guides did everything possible to propagandize us against the Palestinians, speaking of them in the way KKK bigots might have spoken of poor Blacks in the US South years ago. It was despicable. By the way, Israel doesn't permit Christian evangelization, it gives Messianic Christians a very hard time, has basically a theocracy (no buses on the Sabbath and such), permits Jews to marry only Jews, won't admit anyone to live there who isn't Jewish, etc. Why, then, call it a democracy? Would we be a democracy if only Christians were permitted to immigrate here? 

  The good news. More and more US Jews are coming to the conclusion that Israeli security depends upon a just peace. Rabbi Lerner is one of several key rabbis who speak out for that. Not long ago 'J St." was formed by Jews to combat the prejudiced but effective propaganda of AIPAC and its Israel-above-all allies. In the interest of Israel and the USA we must treat the Palestinians fairly. Our faith requires that! But, sadly, the AIPAC mentality is strong. Many key Catholics (including the Pope) and mainline Protestants tend to understand this. Most fundamentalist 'Bible believers' have been hoodwinked by those who believe Israel can do no wrong, the apple of God' eye.

  God bless the Jews, the Palestinians, and people of every race and religion. Christians need to help solve these problems, not make them worse. True friends of Israel who also want to battle anti-Semitism must demand justice for the Palestinians.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Please keep in mind that God made an everlasting covenant with the Jews. Even though they turned their backs on Him many times, that covenant is still in effect. They are stilll His people, like it or not.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

They are no longer chosen…like it or not.

 

[DonLeon]

They are no longer chosen…like it or not.

That…is your opinion. shaw:

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

And Christ’s Word of the New Covenant is made with the House of Israel and Judah(Jeremiah 31:31).

Right. But the question is: what happened after that? One branch of Jews followed the New Covenant and founded Christianity. Another branch rejected the new Covenant and founded Rabbinical Judaism. Neither branch is following the Torah since there is no longer a Jerusalem Temple through which to carry out God’s commandments to Moses.

So which branch of Judaism inherits the “Chosen People” title?

 

[chosen_people]

CHOSEN PEOPLE?

Let me pursue this a bit further, and I'm aware that many will not agree. So be it. I assume this is a place to present differing viewpoints.

I don't happen to believe in any Chosen People. God is just and fair, so how can he favor one race or ethnic group over another? It's like saying that God favors white people or Asians or Americans. Just isn't something I believe. Frankly, I can't believe that God ordered Joshua to kill the inhabitants of Jericho, of Ai, etc. Ot, that God commanded Saul to slaughter every last Amalekite. How could God, who gave us the Ten Commandments, give such an order? How many innocent children, many still in the womb, were killed? I could not worship such a monstrous god anymore than I could admire an Adolph Hitler or a Joseph Stalin!

 Now, I did not say (as Chosen People charges) that Israelis are killing thousands oif Palestinians every day. It is not ethical to misquote someone so falsely. I do say that the Palestinians have been cruelly treated by the Israelis, that far more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis. I oppose terrorism in any form, but terrorism can be committed by a state like Israel as much as by individuals. If Israel is genuinely interested in fairness and peace, why does it keep building more and more settlements on the West Bank, even though the USA has again and again opposed this? The reason is they want 'facts on the ground' so that it will be too difficult to remove all those people - maybe 400,000 or so already? Pure land grabbing. Sadly, the Israel Lobby is so powerful - because of money, votes and other forms of intimidation - that our Congress, as Pat Buchanan says, is 'occupied territory'. 

 Okay. What about 9/11? Here is my point. Hatred of the USA in the Muslim world can be trace initially to wholesale US support of Israel. We didn't seem to give a hoot for the rights or welfare of Palestinians. We preached justice and democracy but didn't practice what we preached. This hatred escalated for addition reasons, such as US troops stationed in Saudi Arabia. I would suggest that if the USA had used it good offices and influence they could have forced a just agreement years ago, certainly soon after the Israelis launched the 'preventive' Six Day War om 1967. So, I trace 9-11 back to the Israel-Palestine issue. The vast majority of the world's population hates Israel. Polls have shown repeatedly that it is the country most distrusted - and it has a sizeable cache of nuclear weapons, won't sign agreements limiting them, etc. It thunbs its nose at the rest of the world.

  I wrote earlier that I have been on four pilgrimages to the Holy Land. Three of our Israeli guides did everything possible to propagandize us against the Palestinians, speaking of them in the way KKK bigots might have spoken of poor Blacks in the US South years ago. It was despicable. By the way, Israel doesn't permit Christian evangelization, it gives Messianic Christians a very hard time, has basically a theocracy (no buses on the Sabbath and such), permits Jews to marry only Jews, won't admit anyone to live there who isn't Jewish, etc. Why, then, call it a democracy? Would we be a democracy if only Christians were permitted to immigrate here? 

  The good news. More and more US Jews are coming to the conclusion that Israeli security depends upon a just peace. Rabbi Lerner is one of several key rabbis who speak out for that. Not long ago 'J St." was formed by Jews to combat the prejudiced but effective propaganda of AIPAC and its Israel-above-all allies. In the interest of Israel and the USA we must treat the Palestinians fairly. Our faith requires that! But, sadly, the AIPAC mentality is strong. Many key Catholics (including the Pope) and mainline Protestants tend to understand this. Most fundamentalist 'Bible believers' have been hoodwinked by those who believe Israel can do no wrong, the apple of God' eye.

  God bless the Jews, the Palestinians, and people of every race and religion. Christians need to help solve these problems, not make them worse. True friends of Israel who also want to battle anti-Semitism must demand justice for the Palestinians.

Thread number 79 quotes another poster and refers to a post that person made on another thread that Israel is killing thousands of Palestinians every day.

Your interpretation of the term “chosen people” has nothing to do with its meaning in Judaism. Anti-Semites give it their own interpretation like the one you did and then use it to attack Jews.

Anti-Semites frequently state that Jews, whom make up a whole big one quarter of one per cent of the world’s population “control the world” (see for instance the Protocols of the Elders Zion - Jew watch, stormfront etc). The claim that Jews control America or Congress is merely another manifestation of this anti-Semitic slur.

The KKK is a Protestant Christian racist organization against Black, Jews and Catholics. Anti-Semites find it amusing to compare Jews to racist groups that have made the Jews their victims for instance calling Jews Nazi’s.

 

[chosen_people]

All Christians are “Messianic Christians” by the nature of their religion. Under the Penal law of 5735-1977 it is a criminal offense to bother, prevent, interfere, insult or denigrate a person of another religion or their practicing of their religion (Sections 170 - 172).

The claim that Christian evangelizing is forbidden in Israel is another one of your anti-Jewish fabrications. Sections 174A and 174B makes it a crime to give or accept a monetary consideration or something of monetary value or a material benefit to cause someone to convert their religion. It applies to all people and to all religions in Israel and comes to prevent setting up charitable organizations that make giving their help contingent on conversion. People’s religious beliefs should be based on their convictions not on monetary necessity.

The claim that only Jews are allowed to immigrate or become citizens of Israel is another lie. What is true is that people who fall under the Law of Return are granted immediate citizenship and the right of residency in Israel. The definition of a Jew under the law of return is not the definition of a Jew under Jewish law. It is based on the definition of a Jew in Nazi Germany. It is a reaction to countries like Canada and the United States who closed their borders to Jews (see the voyage of the St.Louis or the quote “no Jews are too many Jews”) preventing them from fleeing Hitler’s final solution with the result that one in two European Jews were murdered. Thank to Israel there will always be a country where every Jew can find sanctuary and Jews will always be able to defend themselves.

The persecution and murder of Jews and Christians has been going on in the Middle East long before the Jews regained their independence. You might like to see 1860 in Lebanon for a start. The attacks and hate of the United States has to do with Islamic Fundamentalist attitudes toward the West and would exist even if there were no Israel.

The Christians being killed in Southern Lebanon in the 1970’s until Israel stepped in to help them in 1982 were being killed by Arafat’s PLO. The PLO which calls for the destruction of Israel was founded in 1964- three years before the 1967 war and before there were any settlements in Judea and Samaria. The Fedayeen terrorist raids of the 1950’s are similarly unconnected to the six day war or settlements.

The six day war began after closing of waterways to Israel by an Arab blockade. That is an act of war and is beginning and basis for the six day war which is therefore not preemptive but defensive. Egypt massed its troops in Sinai and declared that it would destroy Israel. Israel began fighting with Jordan only after begging them not to open a second front against them. The United States which had guaranteed that the waterway would remain in 1956 but did nothing. The UN troops stationed in Sharm El Shiek were immediately removed by Egyptian demand.

If you check out the Hamas charter you will discover that all Jews and Christians must live under Islamic law and their can be no compromise for peace. The Palestinian authority makes it a crime punishable by death to sell land to a Jew.

I would like to go on but I have to run to work.

 

[DonLeon]

Right. But the question is: what happened after that? One branch of Jews followed the New Covenant and founded Christianity. Another branch rejected the new Covenant and founded Rabbinical Judaism. Neither branch is following the Torah since there is no longer a Jerusalem Temple through which to carry out God’s commandments to Moses.

So which branch of Judaism inherits the “Chosen People” title?

They both do. You do not understand the proper meaning of the “Chosen People” of God.
Of all the nations of the earth, God chose the Jews as his people ( through Abraham ). They were the only nation to recognize Him as the One True God. God selected them to carry out his plan. Even though they turned their backs on Him many times, He forgave them. God does not go back on His word or renege on His promise ( the everlasting covenant). Therefore, whether or not you agree, or accept it, the Jews ( Jewish nation )
are still His “Chosen People”.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

They both do. You do not understand the proper meaning of the “Chosen People” of God. Of all the nations of the earth, God chose the Jews as his people ( through Abraham ). They were the only nation to recognize Him as the One True God. God selected them to carry out his plan. Even though they turned their backs on Him many times, He forgave them. God does not go back on His word or renege on His promise ( the everlasting covenant). Therefore, whether or not you agree, or accept it, the Jews ( Jewish nation ) are still His “Chosen People”.

You claim that I “do not understand the proper meaning of the “Chosen People” of God”" but you simply restated my earlier point.

While the Rabbnial Jews turned their back on God by rejecting the Messiah, Christianity has its own problem, namely that they are not the heirs of Abraham.

But this is not orthodox Catholicism which is currently very confused on this issue. And the root of the problem is the Jewish-Christian schism of 1C-2C AD.

And if Catholics and Eastern Orthodox (much less Catholics and Protestants) can’t heal their schism, what hope is there for Christians and Jews?

 

[Roy5]

CHOSEN PEOPLE

 Anti-Semitism is evil. I'm sure we can agree on that. What distresses many of us is that as soon as we criticize any policies of Israel an attempt is made to smear us as anti-Semitic. We can criticize the policies of our own government, the French government, the British government, and any other government in the world and that's okay. As soon as we criticize Israeli policy we become anti-Semites. Frankly, a full and honest debate on Israeli policies are not permitted in this country because of this problem. Many are intimidated, which leads to an inner anger. I presume I share in this. I would feel much better if Israeli policies could be honestly debated without this anti-Semitic canard being raised and exploited. A form ofcontemporary mccarthyism. 

  I believe that I am a wiser friend of Israel than you are. Israel is burying its own grave if it continues to pursue a policy that alienates nearly all the rest of the world. Time is on the side of its enemies. Sorry, but that's a fact. A first step is for Israel to STOP building settlements on the West Bank. How can you justify that? I even accept it if those Jews are willing to live in a Palestinian state, but that won't happen. 

  A few other tidbits, although I'm sure both of us could write a book about this.

  Many of the settlers - probably most - believe that God has given them the land they have moved on to. It's tough to argue with anyone when they think they are doing God's will. Too many Christians - like the Crusaders - have argued that way. 

  True, Muslim fundamentalism is an enemy of freedom and democracy - and the USA. Jewish fundamentalism is also an enemy of freedom and democracy. Both are a threat to peace and justice in the Middle East. 

   Israel at first encouraged Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO. They helped create that monster. One of those unexpected consequences of not-so-clever strategy,

   Arafat, by the way, was narried to a Christian. I don't defend him all the way, but I am sympathetic that the Palestinians have paid so heavily and suffered so much because of a holocaust that was carried out by Europeans. There is a basic unfairness to that. Had the Palestinians been properly compensated for all this, so many lives would have been saved, and the financial cost would have been much less. Instead, every effort has been made to demonize both victims - the Jews and the Palestinians. What an enormous sadness!

  The KKK was filled with Protestants, true. A great shame. Protestants, like Catholics and Jews, have a mixed record because there are all kinds of Protestants. After all, we just celebrated the Declaration of Independence, and 55 of the 56 signers were Protestants. Incidentally, the head of the KKK in this state has been a Catholic! Prejudice is a human phenomenon that exists worldwife, and I have never witnessed more than I did in Israel as I heard Israeli guides demean Arabs. One of my Jewish friends married a Christian and his parents disowned him, would not attend the wedding, meet his bride, etc. Fortunately, Jews as a whole are quite liberal on such matters, but less true the more seriously they take their religion.

  Much more to say, but as long as you and others try to smear as anti-Semites those of us who want justice for all people you are only inciting animosity. One of my closest friends is a Reform rabbi and he and I basically agree on Israel, even though he naturally has a stronger emotional attachment than I do. I am only an American with no hyphens, but I love all humanity regardless of race, creed, color, etc.

   God bless the whole world - no exceptions. May justice roll down like waters and righteousness as a mighty stream! A great statement by a great Hebrew prophet.

 

[Lev23]

You gotta be kidding me. Now you are blaming the Gentiles for your people turning their backs on God. Sounds like a victim then, 2,000 years later…still a victim. Why is it that not one Jew will admit they broke the Covenant with God and roamed the desert for forty years because they refused to listen to Him. God called you a “stiff-necked people”. In the Old Testament, the Jews would not listen to God. They made their own rules. God has so much mercy.

I am not blaming anyone for such a thing.

Prophecy of scripture is clear on how God will come into judgement against the nations for how they treated his nation Israel.

You seem to pass off the Church as Gentile with a small number of Jews that have to be Gentile, when in fact the Church is both Jew and Gentile, made one new man in Jesus Christ.

As for the Jews and Gentiles outside the Church, take a cue from St.Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles-
**Romans 1:16
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” **

The Jews are still chosen, all praise and thanksgiving to Jesus Christ!