The Duggars Respond to Reports That Josh Duggar Was Accused of Child Molestation

[Lou2U]

Hi Lou,
Of course I did! But I see words such as monster and predator being floated around this thread. **This happened in his youth. there are a few things I did in my youth that I am ashamed of, quite frankly.**I suspect it is true of all of us, to one degree or another. I am not defending his actions, by any stretch, but I am also not of the opinion that his actions, immoral though they were, should be considered in the same light as if they had happened last year.

Jon

In response to the bolded sentence above: This is precisely my point. What Josh did should not be compared to what other things people have done in their youth. Molestation is not normal, and this has been coupled with the fact that four of his five victims were his sisters. This is not “typical things to be ashamed of in youth”. I don’t know about “monster” or “predator”, but the fact is he molested more than one person and did not receive proper counselling, meaning he could have/will reoffend.

Lou

 

[MaryT777]

In response to the bolded sentence above: This is precisely my point. What Josh did should not be compared to what other things people have done in their youth. Molestation is not normal, and this has been coupled with the fact that four of his five victims were his sisters. This is not “typical things to be ashamed of in youth”. I don’t know about “monster” or “predator”, but the fact is he molested more than one person and did not receive proper counselling, meaning he could have/will reoffend.

Lou

Yes, exactly.

Mary.

 

[SuperLuigi]

You do realize that people are charged with crimes and are sentence to life in prison long before they hit 25? I surely knew right from wrong long before 25 and I have multiple mental health issues. Should we not have first communion and confession around 7? Should we raise this to 25?

:dts:

1. Not everyone knows right from wrong even at 25
2. The age for Communion is fine where it is.

 

[LongingSoul]

Hi Lou,
This happened in his youth. there are a few things I did in my youth that I am ashamed of, quite frankly.I suspect it is true of all of us, to one degree or another.

Would you say that any of those things damaged a young child or up to five young girls, for the rest of their lives? Sexual abuse is a unique weapon of destruction that damages the foundations of self worth.

Here is an article by another girl who at 5 was abused habitually by a 13 year old boy.

patheos.com/blogs/denisebossert/2015/05/23/i-was-molested-by-a-13-year-old-too-and-its-about-the-girls-not-the-boy-or-the-dad/?ref_widget=popular&ref_blog=theanchoress&ref_post=kasper-is-missing-a-chance-to-demonstrate-mercy

 

[Memaw]

I don’t see why you mentioned homeschooling in the first place. The post you quoted said nothing about homeschooling at all, the closest it came to education was mentioning that Josh had a GED.

All the kids are home schooled, they all play a musical instrument. they do a lot of hands on learning jobs and are well behaved and respectful. Josh’s situation was handled years ago, (legally and counseling) and the family is very close so I don’t think anyone treats him any different. He repented and asked forgiveness. We catholic should appreciate that!! He has a nice young family of his own and is a very responsible young husband and father. He has made his peace with his God and family. I don’t think it’s our place to trash him or the family just because we don’t “think” they should be having so many children, My mother-in-laws folks had 14 kids and my Grandmother had 15. (My youngest Aunt died at age 90 a few months ago.) I think we should be thankful that Josh has turned out to be a nice young man and close to his Lord. God Bless, Memaw

 

[QuestLove]

All the kids are home schooled, they all play a musical instrument. they do a lot of hands on learning jobs and are well behaved and respectful. Josh’s situation was handled years ago, (legally and counseling) and the family is very close so I don’t think anyone treats him any different. He repented and asked forgiveness. We catholic should appreciate that!! He has a nice young family of his own and is a very responsible young husband and father. He has made his peace with his God and family. I don’t think it’s our place to trash him or the family just because we don’t “think” they should be having so many children, My mother-in-laws folks had 14 kids and my Grandmother had 15. (My youngest Aunt died at age 90 a few months ago.) I think we should be thankful that Josh has turned out to be a nice young man and close to his Lord. God Bless, Memaw

To be fair, I don’t think many here are criticizing him because they “don’t “think” they should be having so many children”. In fact If I’m not mistaken, many on this forum actually have large families or are from large families themselves. So, i don’t think it is a factor in them criticizing how the family handled the situation.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Would you say that any of those things damaged a young child or up to five young girls, for the rest of their lives? Sexual abuse is a unique weapon of destruction that damages the foundations of self worth.

Here is an article by another girl who at 5 was abused habitually by a 13 year old boy.

patheos.com/blogs/denisebossert/2015/05/23/i-was-molested-by-a-13-year-old-too-and-its-about-the-girls-not-the-boy-or-the-dad/?ref_widget=popular&ref_blog=theanchoress&ref_post=kasper-is-missing-a-chance-to-demonstrate-mercy

I doubt a 14 yo was using it as a weapon. He’s not an invading army looking to demoralize the population.

 

[SuperLuigi]

All the kids are home schooled, they all play a musical instrument. they do a lot of hands on learning jobs and are well behaved and respectful. Josh’s situation was handled years ago, (legally and counseling) and the family is very close so I don’t think anyone treats him any different. He repented and asked forgiveness. We catholic should appreciate that!! He has a nice young family of his own and is a very responsible young husband and father. He has made his peace with his God and family. I don’t think it’s our place to trash him or the family just because we don’t “think” they should be having so many children, My mother-in-laws folks had 14 kids and my Grandmother had 15. (My youngest Aunt died at age 90 a few months ago.) I think we should be thankful that Josh has turned out to be a nice young man and close to his Lord. God Bless, Memaw

 

[SuperLuigi]

This should not be let go.

This is over.

 

[MaryT777]

This is over.

Given the sponsors are pulling out and the show has been pulled off the air at least for now it IS indeed OVER for the Duggars. Now they can concentrate on their family without having to have a "perfect family " which they are not, like all families are not,
façade they’ve been having.

Mary.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Hi Gordan. I am so thankful you have contributed to this thread. Your posts have help me and reassured me and have been a saving Grace for me over the last few days. But even though I understand and agree with you that thier actions were deplorable and inexcusable I also may have some insight into why they took the actions they took and it is persicely because it is something that can transfer over a spread of generations along with the methods of how to “handle” it. From what I understand of situations like this is that the roots and causes and methods of how to handle it are so generationally rooted that it is very complexed and so multy layered it’s horrifying and extremely scary. One of the most engrained roots is a mistrust of physycogists and physycology to begin with. Then there is the mistrust of a corrupt government and Church. This is bred into the mindset of why and how molestation needs to be handled in an iner cyrcle and there are all kinds of stats out there to back up the distrust and to reaffirm that they are alone in trying to handle the abuse. I disagree or just plain don’t understand how this is not faith based. It is thier dark, twisted, and missguided fearful understanding of thier faith but still faith based. To put it quite simply they are ignorant and do not know another way and do not understand the depth and phsycology that you do. You understand and see indepth how it ruines and destroys life. They can not see or just do not have this indepth understanding for what ever the reason may be and I beleive that this is he reason others are asking for compassion and mercy. Even physiologist will tell you that what they understand now about our human mind and how it is influenced and how it works and how it responds has evolved and grown over the years and generations. It’s just that it has not quite caught up to everyone yet and that is, I believe, why others are asking for some compassion and mercy. It not that they want thier actions to be excused but more like understood why they took the coarse of actions they did take. I hope that makes some sense.

I’ve said a few times that the Duggars can almost be excused for how they reacted the first time they became aware of Josh’s actions. It’s a horrible thing to imagine your child doing, far worse to come face to face with it. They were likely horrified, upset, confused and torn over how to do what they felt was best for all their kids. It would be hard to argue that they didn’t do what they felt was best. They clearly relied on their faith and probably sought more advice the first time than the report indicated. The problem with what they did is that, when it comes to child sexual abuse, you really only have one chance to get it right. Not doing the right thing will almost invariably result in other instances of abuse and other victims. That’s exactly what happened with the Duggars. In their case, though, after failing the first time, they failed again. They didn’t get Josh or the girls the help they needed. They didn’t look to competent experts for advice on how to handle it. They failed miserably and people really need to understand that.

Also, while I said that one can almost excuse them for how they handled it the first time, try telling that to a police officer or CPS. In most cases, the authorities aren’t going to accept the excuse that you did what you thought was right, whether it was for religious or other reasons. Depending on where you live, failing to properly address allegations of abuse in your home could get your children taken from you and/or land you in prison. No matter how sincere you are in your dealings with the issue, your ignorance isn’t going to carry a lot of weight with CPS.

I get the impression that a lot of the resistance to bringing cases like this to the attention to the authorities is because of the fears and prejudices people have about CPS, etc. However, their primary goal is to protect endangered and victimized kids. While some of what they do may be viewed as uncalled for or inappropriate on the surface, once you understand the full implications of child sexual abuse, they suddenly look a lot more reasonable. Everyone needs to keep in mind that these are people who deal with this sort of thing day in and day out. They see the worst of it and they know what can come from unchecked and untreated abuse. The same is true of clinicians. Some here look at the Duggars and see a family struggling to handle an impossible situation and doing their best to come through it in a faith-based manner. A counselor looks at their case and sees a dysfunctional family in disarray, with semi-absentee parents. They see a family structure that encouraged Josh’s behavior and parents who, when they found out about it, permitted it to continue.

Prayer, mercy and forgiveness can help in the long term healing in cases like they but they do nothing to stop the abuse or treat the underlying issues.

 

[LongingSoul]

Blow me down. There’s actually credible studies explaining the sickness. It’s called Botkins Syndrome.

botkinsyndrome.blogspot.com.au/p/what-is-botkin-syndrome.html

 

[Gordon_Sims]

All the kids are home schooled, they all play a musical instrument. they do a lot of hands on learning jobs and are well behaved and respectful. Josh’s situation was handled years ago, (legally and counseling) and the family is very close so I don’t think anyone treats him any different. He repented and asked forgiveness. We catholic should appreciate that!! He has a nice young family of his own and is a very responsible young husband and father. He has made his peace with his God and family. I don’t think it’s our place to trash him or the family just because we don’t “think” they should be having so many children, My mother-in-laws folks had 14 kids and my Grandmother had 15. (My youngest Aunt died at age 90 a few months ago.) I think we should be thankful that Josh has turned out to be a nice young man and close to his Lord. God Bless, Memaw

I don’t want this to sound uncharitable, but you have a horribly naive and dangerously ignorant understanding of the issue. First and foremost, this was not handled years ago. It was grossly mishandled. They did not report the issue to the authorities and they did not get Josh or his victims anything resembling competent, professional counseling.

As I keep repeating, no amount of prayer or repentance will make child sexual abuse go away. It won’t stop the offender and it won’t heal the victims.

The best way to look at would be if, instead of a serial, incestuous, predatory child molester (which is exactly what he was), Josh had been a serial killer. That’s a far more apt comparison than if he’d been vandalizing cars. Once you start, you’re not going to stop without legal intervention and you’re not going to get a handle on your urges without intense, professional therapy. John Wayne Gacy was an upstanding, charitable businessman and volunteered in his community. He was praying the Rosary the day he turned himself in and confessed to the murders of almost three dozen boys. I guess that means he was a nice man and close to his Lord. But I have to ask, did his prayers prevent him from killing those 33 (or more) young men and boys? Did his prayers bring healing and closure to the families of his victims? If you’d heard about him back when he was arrested and known that he was a prayerful Catholic at the time of his arrest, would you have been willing to take him into your home and leave him alone with young boys? If your answer is no and you can understand why setting Gacy free and letting him continue to be around potential victims would have been wrong, then you really ought to be able to understand why people are concerned about Josh Duggar, his lack of counseling and the fact that he now has three young children of his own.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

LongingSoul, thanks for that link. Unfortunately, I doubt the poster you were responding to got the point at all. The take seems to be, “a 14 year old didn’t MEAN to scar his victims for life, so he shouldn’t be blamed even if they are.”

I really hope everyone defending Josh is as charitable to the next inner-city teenager who’s charged as an adult for acts of gang violence. If not, believe me I won’t be shy about pulling up past topics and pointing it out.

To all who are defending the Duggars, do you all sincerely believe the victims have all completely recovered from what happened by now? If you do, then I find your take on this a little more acceptable. However, the impression I’m getting from many of the defenders is that the victims SHOULD have recovered by now, that if any of them haven’t, then it’s on them to work it out, and Josh himself can wash his hands of any responsibility for their suffering.

I don’t know WHAT I can say that, other than, I disagree.

BTW, it seems Jim Bob may have lied to the trooper he asked to give Josh a “stern talking”:

Former State Trooper: Jim Bob Duggar lied to me

In the new interview from prison, Hutchens said he was told by Jim Bob and Josh that “Josh had inappropriately touched [redacted] during the time she was asleep. He said he touched her through her clothing and he said it only happened one time.”

He said the fact that it was a one-time incident influenced his decision not to report it.

I say MAY because obviously this guy isn’t exactly a bastion of credibility either, and certainly has motive to deflect blame for his own failings. But if it were true, I wouldn’t be surprised, unfortunately.

 

[stinkcat_14]

All the kids are home schooled, they all play a musical instrument. they do a lot of hands on learning jobs and are well behaved and respectful. Josh’s situation was handled years ago, (legally and counseling) and the family is very close so I don’t think anyone treats him any different. He repented and asked forgiveness. We catholic should appreciate that!! He has a nice young family of his own and is a very responsible young husband and father. He has made his peace with his God and family. I don’t think it’s our place to trash him or the family just because we don’t “think” they should be having so many children, My mother-in-laws folks had 14 kids and my Grandmother had 15. (My youngest Aunt died at age 90 a few months ago.) I think we should be thankful that Josh has turned out to be a nice young man and close to his Lord. God Bless, Memaw

Given that it is very reasonable to criticize Jim Bob’s and Michelle’s parenting skills, one can criticize them for having so many children. If you are not a good parent, then perhaps you should have fewer kids rather than more. Obviously, there are a lot of issues with this family that is debatable. That in and of itself is not a bad thing. After all, they are not a private family, they put themselves on display, so it is not surprising that their behavior generates a discussion.

 

[Kephart]

Apparently no place for forgiveness either.

He’s now 27. The question is whether he’s repented, sought forgiveness, and made restitution. It sounds like all of this was done. His family has moved on. Why can’t others?

You are absolutely right!

What frightens me is that millions of people think they have all the information they need in order to judge the person a habitual pedophile when ALL THEY REALLY HAVE are reports from InTouch Magazine and various news stories.

• How many of those who have posted in this thread have read the court documents?
• How many of those who have posted in this thread have read the police report?
• How many of those who have posted in this thread know ANYTHING about the Duggars other than what they’ve seen on TV and the Internet?

I would expect the response to these questions to be something like “Most of the documents were destroyed…!”

To which my response would be: “Then why is it OK to contribute to someone’s destruction when you don’t even have access to ANY the evidence??!?!”

In America you can’t be found guilty of a crime without being tried in a court of law.

But on the Internet, you can be accused, convicted and sentenced without even knowing it. :banghead:

OK, I’ve had my rant. Won’t post here again as I will not engage in gossip.

K

 

[stinkcat_14]

You are absolutely right!

The problem is, there is a huge difference between forgiveness and reconciliation. I have no need to forgive Josh because he has done nothing against me. On the other hand, I would not let him watch my kids. That is a prudential judgement.

What frightens me is that millions of people think they have all the information they need in order to judge the person a habitual pedophile when ALL THEY REALLY HAVE are reports from InTouch Magazine and various news stories.

• How many of those who have posted in this thread have read the court documents?
• How many of those who have posted in this thread have read the police report?
• How many of those who have posted in this thread know ANYTHING about the Duggars other than what they’ve seen on TV and the Internet?

I would expect the response to these questions to be something like “Most of the documents were destroyed…!”

We all have limited information and we all have to make our judgments based on that limited information. Those that defend him have limited information with which to defend him.

To which my response would be: “Then why is it OK to contribute to someone’s destruction when you don’t even have access to ANY the evidence??!?!”

In America you can’t be found guilty of a crime without being tried in a court of law.

But on the Internet, you can be accused, convicted and sentenced without even knowing it. :banghead:

OK, I’ve had my rant. Won’t post here again as I will not engage in gossip.

K

What have we convicted him of? We are having a discussion about sexual abuse, culpability of sin, and parenting skills. What can be better than that?

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Kephart, yes indeed I read the police report. I’ve linked to the police report earlier in this topic. Apparently the original was destroyed, but that doesn’t mean the copy already in the hands of In Touch was destroyed.

I’m happy to link it again now.

Original In Touch Article Breaking the Story

I will say that ironically, I read the report mostly because another poster kept claiming that the report shows what Josh did was not as bad as what was being chronicled in the press.

However, reading the report actually made me MORE concerned that the Duggar parents covered up for Josh, and that at least one of the victims was obviously still affected four years after the events happened.

Inv. Taylor then asked if __ knew why __ was there for interview. ___ then started to cry. Inv. Taylor handed __ a tissue. ___ said that ____ did something to ___ four years ago. ___ said ___ did not remember what ___ had done exactly. ___ said all ___ remembers is that ____ was on the washing machine and ___ picked ___ up and did something to ___ said ___ was ____ when it happened. ___ said ____ did not remember what ___ had done. ___ said ___ had stuck hand up ___ dress, but did not remember what ___ had done.

Later from the same interview of the same victims:

Inv. Taylor asked how ___ felt about ____ now. ___ said that ___ does not totally trust ___ said that __ still loves ___ said that ___ does feel safe at home.

I am really trying to focus more on the victims in this. People can debate what culpability Josh has in this, but I’m really troubled by this blithe assumption that the victims have moved on, and therefore, Josh didn’t actually cause anyone lasting harm. Something we have absolutely no proof for, except (1) statements from the perpetrator and those motivated to support him and (2) a heavily edited TV show.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

You are absolutely right!

What frightens me is that millions of people think they have all the information they need in order to judge the person a habitual pedophile when ALL THEY REALLY HAVE are reports from InTouch Magazine and various news stories.

• How many of those who have posted in this thread have read the court documents?
• How many of those who have posted in this thread have read the police report?
• How many of those who have posted in this thread know ANYTHING about the Duggars other than what they’ve seen on TV and the Internet?

I would expect the response to these questions to be something like “Most of the documents were destroyed…!”

To which my response would be: “Then why is it OK to contribute to someone’s destruction when you don’t even have access to ANY the evidence??!?!”

In America you can’t be found guilty of a crime without being tried in a court of law.

But on the Internet, you can be accused, convicted and sentenced without even knowing it. :banghead:

OK, I’ve had my rant. Won’t post here again as I will not engage in gossip.

K

Sorry, but Suudy is completely wrong. If I repent of the flu, am I healed? If a cancer patient repents does the cancer go away? If an HIV patient apologizes to everyone he’s infected are they suddenly cured?

I don’t believe anyone has accused Josh of being a pedophile. What he as accused of, and what is clearly stated in the police report (which I’ve read several times), is of being a serial child sex abuser. That was clearly documented in the police report and he and his family have stated that he was guilty. Stating that he is guilty of actions he and his family admitted to is not gossip. Discussing the ramifications of his actions is not gossip. Expressing concern for his victims is not gossip.

Josh did not receive treatment and did not make restitution. His victims did not receive treatment and were forced to live with him for several more years. They had no choice in the matter and even if he never touched them again, they were continually victimized just by his presence.

Please, read up on child sexual abuse on your own before dismissing what is being said in this thread.

 

[Faith1960]

Kephart, yes indeed I read the police report. I’ve linked to the police report earlier in this topic. Apparently the original was destroyed, but that doesn’t mean the copy already in the hands of In Touch was destroyed.

I’m happy to link it again now.

Original In Touch Article Breaking the Story

I will say that ironically, I read the report mostly because another poster kept claiming that the report shows what Josh did was not as bad as what was being chronicled in the press.

However, reading the report actually made me MORE concerned that the Duggar parents covered up for Josh, and that at least one of the victims was obviously still affected four years after the events happened.

Later from the same interview of the same victims:

I am really trying to focus more on the victims in this. People can debate what culpability Josh has in this, but I’m really troubled by this blithe assumption that the victims have moved on, and therefore, Josh didn’t actually cause anyone lasting harm. Something we have absolutely no proof for, except (1) statements from the perpetrator and those motivated to support him and (2) a heavily edited TV show.

What about how close the girls are with Josh even to this day? They chaperones him and Anna, he was in their wedding(s), made up Jessas wedding invitations, etc.