THE ELEPHANT IN THE CHURCH a Catholic priest speaks out against homosexual priests

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Think about how long humanity has lived with sins of the flesh…a very long time. The sin of homosexuality in the Catholic priesthood isn’t new either. The time in which we live has simply shed new light on the Catholic homosexual priesthood. How we deal with this scandal really does matter.

What do each of us do when we recognise a personal sin?
Be sorrowful…mourn.
Stop doing it
Confess
Do penance
Amend your life
Instead of kicking each other around, we all need to help each other amend lives by praying for God’s mercy.

The sin of homosexual priesthood has been brought to light.

See the sin.

If we deny that a change needs to be made we are condemning ourselves.

Simply speak the Truth and don’t be afraid because God is always with us when we do His will.
 
It seems to me that allowing a homosexual male to enter the seminary, where he would live in close quarters with other men that he could/would be attracted to, would be akin to allowing a heterosexual seminarian/priest to live in a convent. Even for celibate men, either situation just seems to be asking for trouble.

Peace
 
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chemcatholic:
It seems to me that allowing a homosexual male to enter the seminary, where he would live in close quarters with other men that he could/would be attracted to, would be akin to allowing a heterosexual seminarian/priest to live in a convent. Even for celibate men, either situation just seems to be asking for trouble.

Peace
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Yes, and it is true of any all male environment which admits homosexuals, there are incidents.
 
It appears that Bishop Gumbleton doesn’t agree with the Vatican on this issue.

Yes, Gay Men Should Be Ordained

“We must also ask ourselves: do we really want to deprive the church of the valuable and blessed ministry that is already being provided by priests and religious who are gay or lesbian? Do we really wish to increase the pain and hurt that many of them have experienced throughout their lives? Do we really want to instigate a “witch hunt” to expel from the ministry gay priests, and, I might add, gay bishops?”
"As a bishop for over 30 years, I have worked with and come to know well many gay priests. They are healthy psychologically, and their committed ministry has been very effective. I am inspired by their love of God and of the people they serve so well and generously. I also know the struggle they now face as they see the bishops deal with the current crisis in the church."

Read the entire article by clicking on the link below

By Thomas J. Gumbleton
americamagazine.org/gettext.cfm?textID=2508&articleTypeID=1&UUID=3304&getlastissue=1&lastissueVolume=187&lastissueNumber=10

The Most Rev. Thomas J. Gumbleton is an auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Detroit, Mich
 
Ordination and Same Sex Attraction
By Andrew R. Baker
“Part of the distortion of S.S.A. is the tendency to view the other person of the same sex as a possible sexual “partner” or even to reduce the other (also a temptation for heterosexuals) to a sexual object. In such a clearly male environment as the seminary and the priesthood, the temptation is ever-present for those with the disorder. This temptation could present very difficult circumstances and the overwhelming presentation of the object of their attraction (men), which is naturally part of an all-male and intensely close community, could make their efforts to live chastely or to be healed of their disorder very difficult.”

The Rev. Andrew R. Baker, a priest of the Diocese of Allentown, Pa., is on the staff of the Congregation for Bishops in Rome

Read article by clickin on the link below

americamagazine.org/gettext.cfm?textID=2513&articleTypeID=1&UUID=3587&getlastissue=1&lastissueVolume=187&lastissueNumber=10
 
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tcay584:
If the attraction is never acted on…what’s the problem? Where’s the sin? How can any human, priest or not, be holy when we have all sinned to some degree or the other? Are you suggesting that all priests should be perfect and never, ever, ever have any sinful thoughts, inclinations or desires, whatever they may be? How unreasonable! They are human also. The homosexual act is indeed and abomination, but the attraction is not.
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Given that the stats on homosexual priests who abused (mostly post-adolescent boys) were a staggering 85%, why take the chance? Men in seminary live together in close quarters for long stretches and this could possibly put someone with a same-sex attraction in a tempting environment and near occasion of sin situation. Please read Mike Rose’s book, Goodbye, Good men, and you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about. At this point in time, the church needs to take a couragous but probably unpopular stand (at least to people with a secular mentality): No gay priests should be admitted or considered for the priesthood!
 
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tcay584:
If the attraction is never acted on…what’s the problem? Where’s the sin? How can any human, priest or not, be holy when we have all sinned to some degree or the other? Are you suggesting that all priests should be perfect and never, ever, ever have any sinful thoughts, inclinations or desires, whatever they may be? How unreasonable! They are human also. The homosexual act is indeed and abomination, but the attraction is not.
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Given that the stats on homosexual priests who abused (mostly post-adolescent boys) were a staggering 85%, why take the chance? Men in seminary live together in close quarters for long stretches and this could possibly put someone with a same-sex attraction in a tempting environment and near occasion of sin situation. Please read Mike Rose’s book, Goodbye, Good men, and you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about. At this point in time, the church needs to take a couragous but probably unpopular stand (at least to people with a secular mentality): No gay men should be admitted or considered for the priesthood!
 
Quote from The Elephant in the Church

"The people are asking, “When will it end?” It won’t! As long as we ignore the “elephant in the room”, as long as we prefer the comfort of false charity and absolutely refuse to deal with the truth, the scandal and the destruction of faith will continue. It will, in fact, get much worse! The “vocation crisis” is due in large part to the rise of the homosexual subculture in the Church. They have such power that Fr. Andrew Greeley has labeled them the “Lavender Mafia”! (A very appropriate term since the RICO laws are now being used against the Bishops of the Church!) Many young men who have stood up against the homosexual agenda in the seminaries have been labeled “homophobes” and “rigid” and treated as though they are the sick ones. If they somehow manage to get ordained and then discover the truth, they experience terrible frustration. They realize that they have no place to go to get it “fixed”! It does no good to go to the bishop when the bishop is the problem! The chancery staff, the Monsignori, were appointed by him. "

**This what we have to deal with in the Diocese of Orange.:banghead: **

**The roots of the Catholics’ scandal

June 9, 2002

By Steven Greenhut
The Orange County Register
**

Quote from article

"•The July 2000 Wanderer reported allegations about a local priest responsible for sanctuary design throughout the diocese: “For Bishop Brown, the fact that almost every informed Catholic in the Diocese of Orange knows - and has known for years - that [Fr. Rod] Stephens is living what appears to be a scandalous and open homosexual lifestyle, does not appear to be a matter of any import.” The article, by Paul Likoudis, referred to a $10,000-plus per-person luxury cruise Fr. Stephens took with his “longtime companion,” and reprinted a joint Christmas-Chanukah card Fr. Stephens and his alleged companion sent out, with the phrase, “From our digs to yours.”
Fr. Michael McKiernan, the assistant to Bishop Brown who handles personnel matters, told me this month that Fr. Stephens lives in a rectory and that Fr. Stephens assured the diocese he is celibate. Fr. McKiernan refused to comment on whether Fr. Stephens was spoken to over the allegations. (Fr. Stephens is leaving his official diocese post in July, Fr. McKiernan said, for reasons unrelated to the allegations from the Wanderer article.)

When I asked Fr. McKiernan about the facts of the Wanderer article, he replied: What facts? That he took a trip?

Relatives of Fr. Stephens told me they have met with the bishop and Fr. McKiernan to discuss their concerns about Fr. Stephens’ alleged improprieties, and said they faced an astounding lack of interest. "

Please read article by clicking on link
ocregister.com/commentary/greenhut/greenhut60902.shtml
 
GloriaPatri4 said:
Quote from The Elephant in the Church

** They realize that they have no place to go to get it “fixed”!** It does no good to go to the bishop when the bishop is the problem! The chancery staff, the Monsignori, were appointed by him. "

**This what we have to deal with in the Diocese of Orange.:banghead: **

The roots of the Catholics’ scandal

June 9, 2002

By Steven Greenhut
The Orange County Register
Quote from article

"•The July 2000 Wanderer reported allegations about a local priest responsible for sanctuary design throughout the diocese: “For Bishop Brown, the fact that almost every informed Catholic in the Diocese of Orange knows - and has known for years - that [Fr. Rod] Stephens is living what appears to be a scandalous and open homosexual lifestyle, does not appear to be a matter of any import.” The article, by Paul Likoudis, referred to a $10,000-plus per-person luxury cruise Fr. Stephens took with his “longtime companion,” and reprinted a joint Christmas-Chanukah card Fr. Stephens and his alleged companion sent out, with the phrase, “From our digs to yours.”
Fr. Michael McKiernan, the assistant to Bishop Brown who handles personnel matters, told me this month that Fr. Stephens lives in a rectory and that Fr. Stephens assured the diocese he is celibate. Fr. McKiernan refused to comment on whether Fr. Stephens was spoken to over the allegations. (Fr. Stephens is leaving his official diocese post in July, Fr. McKiernan said, for reasons unrelated to the allegations from the Wanderer article.)

When I asked Fr. McKiernan about the facts of the Wanderer article, he replied: What facts? That he took a trip?

Relatives of Fr. Stephens told me they have met with the bishop and Fr. McKiernan to discuss their concerns about Fr. Stephens’ alleged improprieties, and said they faced an astounding lack of interest. "

Please read article by clicking on link
ocregister.com/commentary/greenhut/greenhut60902.shtml
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Father Rod Stevens is no longer a practicing priest but it seems he still has his liturgical design firm. Cardinal Mahony and Bishop Brown have hired him for jobs in the past I wonder if he is still employed by these two bishops and if so aren’t the parishioners of LA and Orange Dioceses indirectly footing the bill?

[sacraforma.com/](http://www.sacraforma.com/)

Stephens, however, has admitted that his liturgical design business, Sacra Forma, is based in his companion’s residence. Read article
[sdnewsnotes.com/ed/articles/2002/0402as.htm](http://www.sdnewsnotes.com/ed/articles/2002/0402as.htm)
 
Well you wanted a response on my voting, and I voted no. I think homosexuals whether they profess it or not should not be accepted into the priesthood. I think they are deviants and when they act out their tendencies they are harmful to themselves as well as others and extremely harmful to the Church. When heterosexual priests err, I can understand it, given the frailty of normal human beings. But when a homosexual acts out it lends an additional layer to the sinfulness which makes it an abomination…yech! It makes my skin crawl.

Another thing is commitment. When a healthy heterosexual becomes a priest, he gives up having a family life. He gives up having a wife and children and devotes himself wholly to the church. What does a homosexual give up? Nothing, actually he takes. He gains a cover for his reason to be single, takes on legitimacy as a cover for his abominable actions, involves himself in a homosexual sub-culture right there in Church. Hey how convenient is that!

I’ve seen some feminine, limp wristed priests, and somehow they don’t give me the confidence that I could trust them with my kids. I’d so much rather see a macho guy whom the girls fall all over for, showing manly courage on issues, speaking strongly against femmenism, just generally projecting strength and courage.

I am encouraged by the stance of the priest who started this thread. I have been praying to the Lord to rid us of the stench of homosexuality in our Church. I think it is through brave men like Father who dare to stand up for right things in the face of political correctness and sadly even some Bishops, that we can bring the Priesthood back to the place of honor that it had before. These are the kind of men that I can look up to and when I can see more men like that, then I would encourage my children to seek a vocation in the Church. I do not want to place them in harms way, that’s for sure. I am sure that there are many parents that feel like I do. There are potentially so many wonderful priests-to-be out there but are currently shut out because of the homosexual subculture. In the meantime, I for one would rally around Priests like Father, and encourage others to do so. It’s when good people do nothing that evil triumphs. A cliche but so true.
 
Kevin Walker:
I would feel a lot better if the sexual abuse scandal never occured, and it was the direct result of homosexuals in the Priesthood. To be perfectly accurate, homosexuals are irrational! They have above average acts of suicide, depression, self-destructive behaviour, anti-social behaviour, drug abuse, alcoholism, irrational thoughts, emotional damage, and acts of violence - the homosexual is incapable of clarity of thought and emotional stability which is why the Church has defined them as “objectively disordered”, and why they are not allowed into strategic government agencies or granted top secret security clearances.

They really shouldn’t be ordained as Catholic Priests either!
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The only one who very obviously is mentally disordered is yourself, and your posts clearly show you have lost your ability of clear ant rational thinking.

I don’t know what caused this problem of yours, maybe you or one of your loved ones has been victim of abuse, but you should seek professional help soon before hate and anger eat up your soul.

What you write about homosexuality is contrary to the believes of the Catholic church.

Werner
 
The fact is that throughout the rich tradition of the Catholic Church, many men of homosexual orientation have been ordained as priests. While some have acted out on their sexual impulses after ordination, the majority of priests of whatever sexual orientation have embraced celibacy as a way of life.

The problem is one of a criminal cover-up. Those in roles of authority have abused that authority by preying upon the vulnerable, and those in authority over them, have deliberately covered this up. The Church needs to be candid about this even if it means turning over Cardinals and Bishops to the civil authorities to spend the rest of their earthly lives in prison for the grave damage they have brought upon us all by their criminal cover-up.

All men must be properly screened before they enter religious and clerical life. They must be scrutinized while they are in formation, and supervised meticulously throughout their lives of servanthood. A policy of Zero Tolerance must be adopted. To ensure that this is the case, civil authorities, acting upon the greater good of society in general, must carefully examine and review how the Church is complying.
 
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Riley259:
Given that the stats on homosexual priests who abused (mostly post-adolescent boys) were a staggering 85%, why take the chance? Men in seminary live together in close quarters for long stretches and this could possibly put someone with a same-sex attraction in a tempting environment and near occasion of sin situation. Please read Mike Rose’s book, Goodbye, Good men, and you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about. At this point in time, the church needs to take a couragous but probably unpopular stand (at least to people with a secular mentality): No gay men should be admitted or considered for the priesthood!
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The difference may be that certain people who have been ordained did not take seriously the vow of celibacy. For some, the desire to become an ordained member of the clergy is stronger than the desire to be celibate. Maybe their devoted mother or grandmother was pushing them to become the “savior” of the family, sensing that they were not interested in dating girls and carousing with their peers? After all, the old Irish wives tale that the mother of a priest goes directly to heaven upon her death circulates even to this day. The priests who were involved in such scandals came from the Baby Boom generation. Many had entered seminary as a way to avoid being drafted into the Vietnam War. They interpreted Vatican II incorrectly and brought many non-sensical liberal (i.e “progressive”) attitudes and practices into the parishes in which they served.

I don’t think the problem stems from people of the same-sex living together. I grew up in a large family of all boys (no sisters). We lived together in close quarters. We certainly didn’t become sexual predators.
 
Scout I am curious how you could consider the priest sex abuse scandal a problem of pedophiles. If that were true then the percentages of each sex abused would be closer to 50%. THere should actually be a great majority of females since in the larger population, male abuse of females is the most frequent (which makes sense given that 98% of men are heterosexual. Either there is a much higher percentage of homosexual priests than in the general population or all of the studies and reports are lies…hmm which is it?

4Marks I appreciate your rational and thoughtful posts. It’s clear that a homosexual subculture that existed (exists?) at some seminaries effectively screened out heterosexuals as “too rigid” since they weren’t willing to play along with the boys so to speak.
I am more hopeful now that sunshine has been brought in to disinfect the seminaries that this problem has been addressed and will be solved to a great extent

Lisa N
 
Current Church rules say that homosexual men cannot be ordained. That’s the rule. It ought to be enforced so long as it’s the rule.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Lisa N:
Scout I am curious how you could consider the priest sex abuse scandal a problem of pedophiles. If that were true then the percentages of each sex abused would be closer to 50%. THere should actually be a great majority of females since in the larger population, male abuse of females is the most frequent (which makes sense given that 98% of men are heterosexual. Either there is a much higher percentage of homosexual priests than in the general population or all of the studies and reports are lies…hmm which is it?

4Marks I appreciate your rational and thoughtful posts. It’s clear that a homosexual subculture that existed (exists?) at some seminaries effectively screened out heterosexuals as “too rigid” since they weren’t willing to play along with the boys so to speak.
I am more hopeful now that sunshine has been brought in to disinfect the seminaries that this problem has been addressed and will be solved to a great extent

Lisa N
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Again…you’re missing my point. Just because someone is a homosexual doesn’t make them a pedophile.

The priest abuse scandal was created by pedophiles. A man being attracted to a young boy ISN’T HOMOSEXUALITY! IT’S PEDOPHILIA!!! Homosexuality is being attracted to adults of the same sex, not children. Being attracted to children is a completely different area. The priest abuse scandal was created by men who were/are attracted to children, not adults.
ARE WE ALL GETTING THIS NOW?:mad:

I’m not saying that I think that gays should be allowed to be priests. That is against Church teaching and I will support it. My problem is all of the people who have been posting on this thread saying that homosexuals are pedophiles, or potential pedophiles. It’s one of the most disgusting, unloving, unChristian things someone can say. And it’s being said by a bunch of people who have no REAL idea of what they’re talking about.

Scout :tiphat:
 
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Scout:
Again…you’re missing my point. Just because someone is a homosexual doesn’t make them a pedophile.

The priest abuse scandal was created by pedophiles. A man being attracted to a young boy ISN’T HOMOSEXUALITY! IT’S PEDOPHILIA!!! Homosexuality is being attracted to adults of the same sex, not children. Being attracted to children is a completely different area. The priest abuse scandal was created by men who were/are attracted to children, not adults.
ARE WE ALL GETTING THIS NOW?:mad:

I’m not saying that I think that gays should be allowed to be priests. That is against Church teaching and I will support it. My problem is all of the people who have been posting on this thread saying that homosexuals are pedophiles, or potential pedophiles. It’s one of the most disgusting, unloving, unChristian things someone can say. And it’s being said by a bunch of people who have no REAL idea of what they’re talking about.

Scout :tiphat:
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Scout quite honestly are you reading my posts or attributing someone else’s thoughts to me? I have NEVER said being homosexual means you are a pedophile. In reality there is a higher percentage of homosexual pedophiles than their overall representation in society. But again, neither all nor a majority of homosexuals are PEDOPHILES. However the priest abuse scandal in the Catholic Church had an extremely high percentage of homosexual involvement. If these abusers were pedophiles then we would expect a majority of FEMALE victims because a majority of pedophiles (and men) are heterosexual. That was simply not the case. Read any of the reports and over 80% of the victims were males. That would not happen without the homosexual orientation of the perpetrators.

Please quit putting words in my mouth or attributing comments to me that I did not make. I think that the problem originated with the number of homosexuals who were ordained during a certain time period and the sad reality that the Church did not acknowlege and respond appropriately to the abuse. Had the “Lavender Mafia” not been allowed to grow and flourish, we may have had a few incidents but the magnitude of the scandal would not have nearly as great.

Lisa N
 
Most of the priests who had perverted encounters with males were with teenage boys, post pubescent. The priests were not pedophiles, they went after more physically mature males.
 
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Scout:
A man being attracted to a young boy ISN’T HOMOSEXUALITY! IT’S PEDOPHILIA!!! Homosexuality is being attracted to adults of the same sex, not children. Being attracted to children is a completely different area. The priest abuse scandal was created by men who were/are attracted to children, not adults.
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What about a man attracted to a 16-year-old boy? Is that pedophilia? Or a 16-year-old boy attracted to one of his same sex peers? That must be pedophilia too, according to your definition. Right?

Or rather than relying on arbitrary definitions of key terms, let’s just look at the hard data. On a per capita basis considering heterosexuals and homosexuals as separate groups, the sexual abuse of minors is disproportionately high among homosexual men.

For example, one study entitled “Homosexual Parents” from Adolescence 31 (1996) showed that rates of sexual molestation by homosexual parents occured in 29% of the case studies, compared to only 0.6% by heterosexual parents.

Male-on-male sexual abuse of children accounts for about one-third of instances, even though heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals in the general population by about 20-to-1. The book The Gay Report (Summit Books, 1979) reported data that showed 73% of adult homosexuals surveyed had had sex with adolescent boys. A study in Behavior Research and Therapy found that male pedophiles who preferred male victims were sexually attracted to males of all ages. W. D. Erickson reported in Archives of Sexual Behavior 17 (1998) that 86% of male pedophiles against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Kevin Walker:
Homosexuals are nothing like me, or any other heterosexual!

I dispise the euphemism of ‘Gay’ applied to homosexuality, there is nothing Gay about homosexuality, their suicide rate, sado/masochism, irrationality, depression rate, alcoholism, drug abuse, inverterate lying and denial, and anti-social behavior belies that cover-up.

There is nothing ‘Gay’ about a homosexual lying to enter the Priesthood, allowing themselves to be ordained under false pretenses, then living a lie while using their position of authority to target-stalk-bugger/grope little Catholic boys: are you trying to insinuate that that is the definition of GAY and should be applied to the homosexual?

The is the most sophistic apologistic view towards homosexuality I have read outside of a “Gay Rights” polemic.
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I, too, can’t tolerate the word “gay” used to identify active homosexual persons. It is an attempt to paint a disorder as virtuous. Are heteriosexuals “joyless”?
 
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