The End of False Religion is Near!

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MyPhilomena said:
as far as i know damascus, when i was a jw we never said the Our Father. i don’t know why they wont say it even though our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ said we could say it!
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Isn’t life so much easier when we do what Jesus told us to do?

I mean - its harder to blot him out then to just do what he asks us.

Its easier to not fast.
Its easier not to give alms.
Its easier to forget the cross and minimize it. ‘torture stake’
Its easier to follow a magazine than a Church.
There are so many ways to make it easier.
Knock the Catholics.
Use no citations in your magazine to prove your false allegations.
Take everything from scripture to suit your man made religion.
Out of context.
Dont read history.
Dont encourage higher education for fear they will wise up.
Use fear and predict the end of the world as we know it to scare people into following fables, selling their possesions , ect.
Use the word Pagan in every scentence.
Wear a wedding ring while doing so. (Pagan!)
Have no answers for questions, just switch subjects.
 
The JWs have serious problems with their doctrine of soul sleep. One of the biggest ones is what I like to call the “is it live or is it Memorex?” problem.

You see, the JWs believe that when the spirit or life-force is joined to the body that the man becomes a living soul. They say the following:

“At death the life-force in time leaves all the body cells and the body begins to decay. But this does not mean that our life force literally leaves the earth and travels through space to God. Rather, the spirit returns to God in the sense that now our hope for future life rests entirely with God. Only by his power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that we can live again.” -You Can Live Forever in Paradise On Earth page 79

They make it clear that they believe that there is no superiority between humans and animals. On page 77 of the same book quoted above they say:

“The “spirit” that makes animals live is the same as that which makes humans live.”

They also make it clear that when one dies this spirit no longer exists. On page 77 they also say the following:

“At death man’s spirit, his life force, which is sustained by breathing, “goes out”. It no longer exists. So man’s senses of hearing, sight, touch, smell, and taste, which depend upon his being able to think, all stop working. According to the Bible, the dead enter a state of complete unconsciousness.”

So for most JWs, at death they believe their life force goes out and the body decays and all they think and are is gone. For them, there is nothing unique to them that continues to exist in some form. In other words, there is nothing unique to them that is eternal. Their only hope for future life is that God will re-create them from memory. But will this re-creation really be them or just a copy of them if there is nothing about them that is permanent?

Ironically, the JWs at their website say the following about how to think about the resurrection:

“Actually, if you accept the existence of God, you should have no problem believing in the resurrection. To illustrate: A person can videotape his last will and testament, and after he dies, his relatives and friends can see and hear him, in effect, as he explains how his estate is to be handled. A hundred years ago, such a thing was unthinkable. And to some people now living in remote parts of the world, the technology of video recording is so beyond comprehension as to seem miraculous. If scientific principles established by the Creator can be used by humans to reconstruct such a visible and audible scene, should not the Creator be able to do far more? Is it not reasonable, then, that the One who created life is capable of re-creating it?” watchtower.org/e/we/index.htm?article=article_05.htm

We all know that the videotaped person is just a copy of that person and is not the same as having that actual person in the room with you. But that is the best that the JWs believe that God can do.

In the Catholic perspective, at the moment of conception the child receives an immortal soul from God. The parents participate with God in a special creation of a unique being who has the ability to freely choose to love and serve God for all eternity. The parents collaborate with God in changing the Universe for all eternity by bringing into being with God another immortal soul. At the resurrection when soul and body are reunited, the person is that actual person that once lived and not a mere copy or re-creation of that person as the JWs teach.

Interestingly the JWs’ tract asks, If scientific principles established by the Creator can be used by humans to reconstruct such a visible and audible scene, should not the Creator be able to do far more?" Ironically, Catholics do believe that God can and does do more than merely re-create a copy of that individual. It is the JWs themselves that do not believe that God can do more than this. For the JWs’ the best that they believe that God can do is to give us the memorex copy (or videotaped copy), of that individual.

Another thing is that the JWs teach that when those persons who are members of their 144,000 class die they are instantly changed into spirit creatures with a spirit body that goes to heaven to rule with Christ. They describe this process by saying that God transfers their life pattern from their human body to their spiritual body. Hmmmmmmm. I have often thought that the way they describe this “life pattern” that is transferred at death to a spiritual body for those of the 144,000 sounds very much like a human soul.

You guys might find my website helpful and I would like to invite my JW friends here to visit it as well.

www.catholicxjw.com

God’s blessings to all of you,

Jeff Schwehm
President
The Fellowship of Catholic Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses
 
As Christians, followers of Christ, Jehovah’s Witnesses accept the self same books of Scripture which Jesus and his faithful apostles/disciples used, and believe that the truth is contained therein, and base ALL of their beliefs on what is found in those writings.
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I was a JW for most of my life and we never used the same canon of scripture that Jesus and his apostles and disciples used. We used the canon given to us by Martin Luther.

Jeff S.
www.catholicxjw.com
 
jschwehm said:
Interestingly the JWs’ tract asks, If scientific principles established by the Creator can be used by humans to reconstruct such a visible and audible scene, should not the Creator be able to do far more?" Ironically, Catholics do believe that God can and does do more than merely re-create a copy of that individual. It is the JWs themselves that do not believe that God can do more than this. For the JWs’ the best that they believe that God can do is to give us the memorex copy (or videotaped copy), of that individual.

Another thing is that the JWs teach that when those persons who are members of their 144,000 class die they are instantly changed into spirit creatures with a spirit body that goes to heaven to rule with Christ. They describe this process by saying that God transfers their life pattern from their human body to their spiritual body. Hmmmmmmm. I have often thought that the way they describe this “life pattern” that is transferred at death to a spiritual body for those of the 144,000 sounds very much like a human soul.

You guys might find my website helpful and I would like to invite my JW friends here to visit it as well.

www.catholicxjw.com

God’s blessings to all of you,

Jeff Schwehm
President
The Fellowship of Catholic Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses
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excellent, excellent post jeff!!! 👍 👍 👍
 
Hi Gang:

When the JWs visit our home, some have said that it would be nice to give them something in return for giving us their pamphlet. I have a pdf file which you can download from my website and give to them. Here is the link:

catholicxjw.com/services.html

At the bottom of the page is the link to the pdf file. Give these out to any and all.

Jeff Schwehm
www.catholicxjw.com
 
jschwehm said:
So for most JWs, at death they believe their life force goes out and the body decays and all they think and are is gone. For them, there is nothing unique to them that continues to exist in some form. In other words, there is nothing unique to them that is eternal. Their only hope for future life is that God will re-create them from memory. But will this re-creation really be them or just a copy of them if there is nothing about them that is permanent?

Ironically, the JWs at their website say the following about how to think about the resurrection:

“Actually, if you accept the existence of God, you should have no problem believing in the resurrection. To illustrate: A person can videotape his last will and testament, and after he dies, his relatives and friends can see and hear him, in effect, as he explains how his estate is to be handled. A hundred years ago, such a thing was unthinkable. And to some people now living in remote parts of the world, the technology of video recording is so beyond comprehension as to seem miraculous. If scientific principles established by the Creator can be used by humans to reconstruct such a visible and audible scene, should not the Creator be able to do far more? Is it not reasonable, then, that the One who created life is capable of re-creating it?” watchtower.org/e/we/index.htm?article=article_05.htm

We all know that the videotaped person is just a copy of that person and is not the same as having that actual person in the room with you. But that is the best that the JWs believe that God can do.

In the Catholic perspective, at the moment of conception the child receives an immortal soul from God. The parents participate with God in a special creation of a unique being who has the ability to freely choose to love and serve God for all eternity. The parents collaborate with God in changing the Universe for all eternity by bringing into being with God another immortal soul. At the resurrection when soul and body are reunited, the person is that actual person that once lived and not a mere copy or re-creation of that person as the JWs teach.

Interestingly the JWs’ tract asks, If scientific principles established by the Creator can be used by humans to reconstruct such a visible and audible scene, should not the Creator be able to do far more?" Ironically, Catholics do believe that God can and does do more than merely re-create a copy of that individual. It is the JWs themselves that do not believe that God can do more than this. For the JWs’ the best that they believe that God can do is to give us the memorex copy (or videotaped copy), of that individual.

Another thing is that the JWs teach that when those persons who are members of their 144,000 class die they are instantly changed into spirit creatures with a spirit body that goes to heaven to rule with Christ. They describe this process by saying that God transfers their life pattern from their human body to their spiritual body. Hmmmmmmm. I have often thought that the way they describe this “life pattern” that is transferred at death to a spiritual body for those of the 144,000 sounds very much like a human soul.

You guys might find my website helpful and I would like to invite my JW friends here to visit it as well.

www.catholicxjw.com

God’s blessings to all of you,

Jeff Schwehm
President
The Fellowship of Catholic Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses
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Wow, that is something that I clearly didnt think about, when I think about it now this is what is being said, our bodies die, there is nothing more to us, these bodies literally decay and eventually turn into dirt…then sometime down the road we “resurrected”…but there is no body to resurrect, it must literally be re-created, in otherwords its not really the same you! Its not the same you living in paradise! 😦

As for those who get sent to hell, its not really that person being sent to hell but a different creation representing you! :eek:
 
Catholic_Dude said:
Wow, that is something that I clearly didnt think about, when I think about it now this is what is being said, our bodies die, there is nothing more to us, these bodies literally decay and eventually turn into dirt…then sometime down the road we “resurrected”…but there is no body to resurrect, it must literally be re-created, in otherwords its not really the same you! Its not the same you living in paradise! 😦

As for those who get sent to hell, its not really that person being sent to hell but a different creation representing you! :eek:
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They dont believe in Hell. You just die.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
So what about the “lake of fire” stuff?
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Ask them how they interpret it. NOT literally for sure!

They dont think a merciful and loving God would SEND people to hell burning in an eternity.

You can tell them allllllllllllll day long it is not a burning forever thing and cite the CCC on hell all you want.

They wont hear of it.
 
CATHOLIC DUDE-

Ask them how many times they have flip flopped on women and rape.

To scream, or not to scream.

That IS the question!!!😉
 
“Damascus” since you’ve asked several times for an answer to post# 85 I will do my best to oblige.
1- Can you tell me who is in charge at WTBS? Yes!
2- Can you give me a list of all the Governing Body members? Absolutely!
3-Can you give me a list of all the District Overseers? worldwide? The list would be extensive. However, if I deemed it to be of any importance to have their names I could likely get them, but we follow God not men.
4-Can you give me the Bethelites rules of conduct? They have the same rules as the rest of Jehovah’s people. They teach the truth and follow Bible principles in all aspects of their lives.
5- What can you tell me about Bethelites? Much. Many of my family members and friends have served or are currently serving there. They have dedicated themselves to the preaching of God’s kingdom, given up monetary and secular advancement, and are humble servants of God. Actually I have several pictures of Bethelite brothers (who have come to our assemblies and conventions to speak) and their wives with my children.
6- Can you tell me about the lives of the founder and subsequent leaders? Yes! There is no secret here, no mystery. We have a 725page book documenting the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Page 116 has a beautiful picture of our Governing Body (from 1992 - some have since passed away) all smiling sweetly in their suits and ties. Precious! This picture warms my heart. If you’re truly interested the book is entitled, “Jehovah’s Witnesses - Proclaimer’s of God’s Kingdom”.
7- Is one of them buried next to a Mason Lodge with a Pyramid Headstone? Possibly. There are bodies of many faithful men and women buried near a variety of things. How is this of any relevance whatsoever?
8- How many times have you seen any of the Governing Body members at your conventions? Many. They don’t stand out in the crowd, they wear regular clothes and sit with the rest of us. You could be sitting next to one, sharing lunch and conversation and not know who he was until he was announced at the podium to speak. No special garb, rings to kiss, or Prada shoes. They are humble, loveable and kind. Their only title is “Brother”. They view themselves as servants of Jehovah’s people and we are so thankful for our dear, loving Governing Body!
Did Jesus wear any special robes or garb? How did the soldiers coming to arrest him before his death recognize him? only by Judas’ kiss of betrayal. Jesus warned at Luke 20:46&47, “Look out for the scribes who desire to walk around in robes and like greetings at the marketplaces and front seats in the synagogues and most prominent places at evening meals…and for a pretext make long prayers. These will receive a heavier judgement.”
9- Do you know how many charities the WTBS is involved in? We follow Proverbs 3:27, “Do not hold back good…when it happens to be in the power of your hand to do it” and help our fellow man in any way we can. The WTBS does not dictate to whom or how much we should donate, that’s a personal decision. My family regularly donates to causes such as breast cancer, CHP, the blind, and the senior’s meal program (if you must know). However, the bulk of our donations go to the worldwide work of Jehovah’s Witnesses and we get regular reports on how the funds are spent. Our primary concern is the preaching that Jesus instructed his followers to do at Matthew 28:19. We take this command seriously. We look to God’s kingdom to bring relief to the millions who are scarred by AIDS, genocide, starvation, war, and the multitude of other horrendous things millions are experiencing in these “last days”. Any efforts, though well intentioned, that humans make really amount to putting a Band-aid on a festering, gangrenous lesion.
10- Do you know all the doctrines your faith teaches? Yes, I do! Would you like to know too? Go to: www.watchtower.org Click on "Jehovah’s Witnesses: Who are they? What do they believe? On the 3rd page under this heading you’ll find a table of our beliefs and the scriptures to back them up.
We are now nearly 7,000,000 strong and growing rapidly as sincere hearted people worldwide are learning the glorious truths about our great God Jehovah!

Though there hasn’t been a prompt response to your questions please don’t imagine that you have stumped us, taught us a lesson, or that we are intimidated by your “vast knowledge”. I do not frequent websites that teach falsehoods but came upon this when I googled the name of our tract. Jehovah’s Witnesses are very busy with our special tract work denouncing False Religion! We simply do not have time to engage in arguments. If you sincerely want answers go to our website - It’s all there, we have nothing to hide
 
MyPhilomena,

(quote:)
Why do the rank and file Jw’s know nothing about Bethelites?

I’ve been reading all of the postings on this board and have arrived to a conclusion. Very few on this group are really interested in learning what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe. This last quote is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read before. Most Jehovah’s Witnesses know dozens of Bethelites. I’ve had very close friends serve at Bethel over the years. In fact, they are always welcoming visitors. Let’s see, I know someone there who has been serving since the 1970’s. I know a brother who trains the circuit overseers and he’s best friends with this gentleman I just met from California. Some of my friends know the Governing Body brothers.
The truth is, the world of Jehovah’s Witnesses is actually very small. I moved from Louisiana to Texas. A friend I met in Atlanta showed up at our Kingdom Hall! Then some “brothers visiting from Oregon” ended up have the same friends I have near New Orleans. Now perhaps if someone is a newly baptized Jehovah’s Witness, then he may know little about Bethel.

I know the type of people who serve at Bethel and they are very intelligent and humble individuals. I’m unaware of this “secrecy” that is claimed.

Also, it is NOT possible to have any sort of intelligent discussion with the majority on this board. I outline all of the reasons that Babylon the Great represents “the world empire of false religion”, and all I get is a bunch of JW-bashing. I could do the same bashing, but I will absolutely NOT do this, especially since I’m a guest. When I do my research, I have my Bible in my hands and carefully consider the texts. Therefore, when someone tells me that I’m coming to a particular conclusion because of a JW leader, they instantly lose all credibility in my eyes. In fact, I honestly can NEVER recall a time when I spoke with a Catholic and questioned a single thing I believed. I can recall times when I spoke to other faiths who commanded a knowledge of the Scriptures and made me give serious thoughts to my beliefs. I used to work with a Catholic gentleman, and he could never explain a single thing from the Bible. He seemed to be an expert in the matters of official Church teachings and staunchly supported the Church. But it wasn’t just that he could not defend his faith from the Bible; it was as if he did not care.

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the Bible was meant to be understood. It’s not a matter of saying “well, this could be this, or this could be understood to be that…” and that’s what I’m hearing about Revelation from members on this board. Members are jumping from “144,000”, “slanderous jokes about stumping Witnesses”, “false prophet charges,” “requesting list of Circuit Overseers” to God knows what else.

And to address this “Jehovah’s Witnesses can’t do this or can’t do that” charge. The fact is, each person has a different conscience. They also have to think of how their actions affect others. The Internet is proving to be a very wicked thing in general. Childrens are being targest by sexual predators; pornography is rampant, and so on. Of course, the Internet itself is not bad, but at 1 Cor 13:33 we find a warning that “bad associations spoil useful habits.” It is with this spirit that we are counseled on the dangers of the Internet.

As always, you are free to believe what you want. If you don’t want to believe me, that is your perogative. As always, thanks for allowing me to be your guest. And by the way, the response is so overwhelming and so many go off on tangents, that it’s truly impossible to have an extended discussion about one subject.

Thanks,
gspollet
 
Sunnygirl,

Just as a quick note to you. I would be very suspicious of someone asking about a complete list of ALL District Overseers or ALL Governing Body members. During the time of the Nazi’s and the Soviets, the same tactic was used to imprison our brothers for years for their neutrality…No one has any business needing this information. In fact, if a Catholic released the name of every priest in the state, nation, or world, I would think this to be foolish. “All things are lawful, but not all things are advantageous.”

Remember, the people on this forum are “strangers.” Anyone could post here. In fact, I could have impersonated a Catholic and I seriously doubt anyone here would have been the wiser.

gspollet
 
Quote about “lake of fire”.
Ask them how they interpret it. NOT literally for sure! They dont think a merciful and loving God would SEND people to hell burning in an eternity. You can tell them allllllllllllll day long it is not a burning forever thing and cite the CCC on hell all you want.

The lake of fire is a literal symbol that taught a spiritual truth just as the 7 headed beast represents the march of the world empires in connection with God’s people. I don’t believe in hell NOT because I think God wouldn’t do that and therefore, it’s not possible. I don’t believe in hell because the Bible doesn’t teach it. Period.

In fact, this is probably where many do some of their “sloppiest” Bible interpretation. The lake of fire is NOT hell. The word “hell” is translated from the Greek word HADES. (SHEOL is the Hebrew equivalent) In Revelation, we find a very clear distinction between HADES and the Lake of Fire. It says that HADES is thrown into the lake of fire. If the lake of fire is this hellfire, what does HADES represent? Answer: HADES was NEVER understood to be a place of fiery torment. It is the common grave (or gravedom) that was hurled into this fiery lake. (That’s also why Job prayed to go to hell/or Sheol.) What happens when you throw something into fire? It burns up and is destroyed. Therefore, the common grave of mankind would be destroyed. To understand the lake of fire as even being symbolic of a “hellfire” or place of torment results in confusing and inconsistent understandings of hell.

Thanks,
gspollet
 
gspollet,

Thank you for the kind reminder. Actually, I was thinking the same thing, so didn’t give any names - even my own. There does seem to be great anger against us here, but that’s to be expected.

However, I would also like to thank the Catholics for allowing us to be guests here. There was a nice greeting and closing on my post but it was too long and had to be edited down a bit, quite a bit actually. We appreciate being able to voice our beliefs with fellow Bible scholars, though we don’t always agree. You are to be commended for having faith in God and for your study of the scriptures.

I have really enjoyed seeing the responses from you, gspollet, and Tony. Jehovah’s Witnesses are so united in all of our teachings. There is only one thing I would disagree with you on. I far prefer Dutch Brothers Coffee to Starbucks (hee,hee).

Thanks,
SunnyGirl
 
auhsoj88 said:
I was given this newletter this morning by JW’s. After I closed the door I quickle glanced at the newsletter. The Church in Politics, Priest sex scandal, False Doctrines, the future end of a false religion.

After I closed the door, it once again fell on me on how much people dislike the Church because they misunderstand it; or just dislike it! If the Church is His body, then I was again reminded how much people misunderstood and hated Jesus.

What does the Church do in these instances. Well, it just turns the other Cheek because I never seen Catholics go door to door giving bash-pamplets of anykind to anyone or specific religion. Why is that?

In Christ!
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Guess what? We live in Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia, pop l00,000 received a copy of the dreadful "The end of False Religion is Near! "
 
I must have received a copy of it the other day. But I just threw it away without reading it. I have to admit that sometimes I am so petty that I take such literature just so I know they went to the time and expense of printing it for nothing.

I like what someone said earlier about having thier own pamphlet to give back in return. I think I’m going to do that.
 
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