The End of False Religion is Near!

[MyPhilomena]

gspollet,

Thank you for the kind reminder. Actually, I was thinking the same thing, so didn’t give any names - even my own. There does seem to be great anger against us here, but that’s to be expected.

However, I would also like to thank the Catholics for allowing us to be guests here. There was a nice greeting and closing on my post but it was too long and had to be edited down a bit, quite a bit actually. We appreciate being able to voice our beliefs with fellow Bible scholars, though we don’t always agree. You are to be commended for having faith in God and for your study of the scriptures.

I have really enjoyed seeing the responses from you, gspollet, and Tony. Jehovah’s Witnesses are so united in all of our teachings. There is only one thing I would disagree with you on. I far prefer Dutch Brothers Coffee to Starbucks (hee,hee).

Thanks,
SunnyGirl

Hello SunnyGirl,

Actually, you’ll find alot of people here, at CAF that are not antagonistic towards jw’s. Also, you’ll find that alot of them have incredible bibilical knowledge as well. Catholic’s are very united in our beliefs, so do not be misled. Jw’s expect people to be hostile, and that is what you’ve been taught when you go door to door, that not everyone will welcome you with open arms. acutally, that is the furthest thing from the truth that i have experienced with our members here at CAF, and in person.

While iam glad that you are standing by your friends, note that we are also proud to stand by our brothers and sisters as well. No one is better than someone else in God’s eyes, we are all the same part of the human family no matter what we believe. Here at CAF, you can voice your beliefs, we have many different beliefs that are at CAF, for instance, protestants, lutherans, mormons, muslims, judaism, hinduism, catholics, baptists, and so on. there is alot of difference in opinions here, but that can be a valuable thing, as we can all learn from each other. do you understand why so many people who are catholics, and so on are concerned
about the jw belief? can you tell us all please, why we are concerned about the members in your belief? please, enlighten us if you would take the time to do so?

you yourself stated at the top of your post that you expect people to be angry
at you, but that is not always the case, did you stop to think sister, that perhaps people have such strong opinions because they might be concerned for friends or family that are in the organization? and that perhaps alot of ex jw’s have been hurt
when they were in the organization? there are alot of really good people in the organization and ones that are either no longer in it, or ones who simply have had alot of experience with jw’s?

there is more than one side to a story do you not agree? iam glad that your all coming here, and that is wonderful. i have posted an invitation to gspollet and john in this same forum for them to come and discuss with us all the new tract that is the name of this thread, and iam also extending that same invitation to you. i hope you bring more of your members here so we can all share dialogue on both sides of the coin. i look forward to speaking with you all, and hope to have some really good discussions with you.

God bless you,

MP

 

[jschwehm]

Also, it is NOT possible to have any sort of intelligent discussion with the majority on this board. I outline all of the reasons that Babylon the Great represents “the world empire of false religion”, and all I get is a bunch of JW-bashing. I could do the same bashing, but I will absolutely NOT do this, especially since I’m a guest

This is typical JW speak. The JWs go throughout the world calling other religions the whore of Babylon and making the argument that all other religions are false and doomed to destruction by God EXCEPT theirs. They even have a picture of a clergyman (and this clergyman certainly looks like a Catholic priest) who looks like he might be praying printed next to the comment that even those religions who condemn sexual immorality have condoned those who have preyed on children. If this is not bashing, then I do not know what is!!!

Sexual predators are a societal problem in all religions and all professions and in all Families. Even the JWs have their own sex abuse scandal occurring right now and it will in the end cost them millions of dollars in legal fees and outright judgments against them as many of their JW elders handled these events poorly and even pressured victims NOT to go to the secular authorities in these matters. (See silentlambs.org/) Most JWs have no idea that these scandals are happening right under their noses in their own Kingdom Halls.

To distribute a tract like that and then to complain that others are going to point out inconsistencies and problems in your own religious organization is unreasonable. If you do not like the response then do not distribute tracts like this one that condemn all other groups to eternal destruction except yours. Remember the old maxim—People in Glass Houses, should NOT throw stones!!!

Unlike the JWs who describe all religious groups other than their own as a harlot destined for destruction by God, the Catholic Church refers to our Protestant Christian brothers and sisters as separated brethren and the Catholic Church has been a leader in the Ecumenical movement to be reunited with them. We also work with them in caring for the poor and sick.

We also recognize the truths found in non-Christian religions such as the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses and realize that those truths connect us and hopefully will lead all of us to eternal life in Christ.

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that they can be identified for their love toward others but this love is directed primarily only at other JWs. This is true even in their charitable work, what little of it they actually do, where in times of disaster fellow JWs are helped and non-JWs get their leftovers if any.

In the Pope’s encyclical God is Love, Pope Benedict tell us that to put conditions on charity is not right. And, this is what the JWs do. When a family member is in trouble and if that family member has left the JWs, then they will get little if any charity from their JW friends and family. (jehovahs-witness.com/6/122866/1.ashx) The punishment of shunning is cruel and destroys families. I average a new contact a week where people call me to tell me how the JWs have in some way strained the relationships between fathers and sons, children and parents, and husbands and wives in various and sundry ways.

My suggestion to our JW friends who have decided to visit this board is that they realize that the collection of books that they carry with them from door to door known as the New Testament (or as they call it the Christian Greek Scriptures) is a Catholic collection of books. And, that they would not have that collection of books were it not for the faithful Christian men and women of the Holy Catholic Church.

I often wonder why, since they believe the Catholic Church to be an apostate Church and a leading member of the world empire of False religion, do they believe that those books written by and chosen by Catholics are inspired of God if the Catholics who chose them are apostate Christians? It makes no sense to me. And it would be great to hear how you guys reconcile this.

God’s blessings to you,

Jeff Schwehm

www.catholicxjw.com

P.S. I highly doubt that any of our JW friends will respond directly to me as they are not allowed to speak to former JWs. I am considered to be demonic by most JWs. Unlike Catholics, who are told to show love and reach out to people who have left the Catholic faith, JWs are told to shun those who leave their faith. I ask you, “Where is the love?”

 

[MyPhilomena]

. I don’t believe in hell because the Bible doesn’t teach it. Period.

Actually, friend, that is incorrect. please see this from Jason Evert’s book: Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses:

Chapter 13 “Is Hell Real?”

page 130

This is long, so bear with me please. it will be in 3 or 4 parts.

One of the most important considerations when discussing the topic of hell with Witnesses is the fact that the word has carried different meanings over time. Today the word hell is equated with the fiery place of the damned, and the Wtinesses are right in pointing out that this is not the historic meaning of the term.

In prior eras, hell merely indicated the placeof the dead, which is the original meaning of the German word Hoelle, from which the English hell is derived. In a similar fashion, Witnesses begin on the right foot by acknowledging that the Greek word hades ( “hades”) and the Hebrew word sh ol
( “sheol” ) do not unequivocally refer to a place of torture. Hades and sh ol, like the original meaning of the word hell meant " the place of the dead." That is why Job wished to be there and why the dead will be delivered from it.

Thus, in the Apostle’s Creed, the Church affirms that Jesus descended into hell, though he was never in the place of the damned. The *Catechism of the Catholic Church * explains:

continued…

 

[wanner47]

Hi Gang:

When the JWs visit our home, some have said that it would be nice to give them something in return for giving us their pamphlet. I have a pdf file which you can download from my website and give to them. Here is the link:

catholicxjw.com/services.html

At the bottom of the page is the link to the pdf file. Give these out to any and all.

Jeff Schwehm
www.catholicxjw.com

I might have to print this out for the next time I get some JW’s at my home. Two came over yesterday to give me the “False Religion” tract. I would have invited them in to talk about their faith, but I was in my bathrobe. (It was 10am on a Saturday, and I have a very active toddler, so I was being a bit lazy.)

 

[Mommyof02green]

However, I would also like to thank the Catholics for allowing us to be guests here. There was a nice greeting and closing on my post but it was too long and had to be edited down a bit, quite a bit actually. We appreciate being able to voice our beliefs with fellow Bible scholars, though we don’t always agree. You are to be commended for having faith in God and for your study of the scriptures.

Yeah, the 5000 limit can be bother-some- at times.

I myself have found that I need to weed out my post. (re-write it to be within the 5000 limit) or just make 2 postings and split what I needed to say over the 2 postings.

On the first post you can write/type “to continue” at the end and then at the start of the next post you can write/type “continue from last post”. That can be helpful.

Just thought you would like to know.

 

[MyPhilomena]

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell”- Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek-because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom” : It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell. Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

Since hell has traditionally meant the place of the dead, the Wtinesses capitalize on the modern alteration of its definition and conclude that hellfire is therefore an unbiblical invention. Does Scripture warrant such a conclusion? No. Rather, it says that the damned “shall be tormented with fire and sulfur…the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest” ( Rev. 14:10-11). When faced with this passage, the Witness is forced to conclude that it cannot refer to conscious torment, since the Watchtower teaches that the dead are not conscious.

Moving behind the English, the Greek word for torment is basanizo, which refers to only the punishment, torture, or vexation, not to annhilation and unconcsciousness ) cf. Matt. 8:6, 29; Mark 5;7 Luke 8:28 ).

continued…

 

[MyPhilomena]

There is no reference in Scripture to unconscious torment, as it is a contradiction in terms. Therefore, the idea of hellfire is not a “myth invented by Satan,” as the Watchtower asserts; rather it is an “everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels” ( Matt. 25:41 ) a 'lake of fire and sulphur, where… they will be tormented day and night, forever and ever" ( Rev. 20:10 ).

Another classical objection to eternal torment is the appeal to the love of God. People espousing this belief maintain that God’s love precludes the possibility of his allowing any creature to be tormented eternally. But does God’s love actually prohibit the existence of suffering in the afterlife? The answer is no, because if the existence of suffering in this life does not detract the from the fact that God is love, neither does suffering in the next life. If anything, the goodness of God would seem to be more challenged by the suffering of the innocent in this life than by the punishment of the wicked in the next ( though even that does not challenge his goodness, since God will simply compensate in the next life for what they suffered in this one ) .

continued…

 

[MyPhilomena]

When they want to denounce a Christian concept, ( e.g., eternal torment ), they accuse it of being pagan, based on parallels in other religions. But when they want to keep a Christian concept ( e.g., eternal paradise ), they do not denounce it as pagan even when there are parallels in other religions. Often pagan parallels that Witnesses cite simply aren’t there. For example, the Babylonians did not believe in an eternal fiery punishment. As * The Epic of Gilgamesh* reveals, their concept of the afterlife was bleak, but it is altogether different from the idea of hell. for the Babylonians, the afterlife is bleak for everyone, there is no distinction between the saved and the unsaved.

That many ancient cultures knew of punishment in the afterlife only strengthens the case for the teaching. It demonstrates that human nature knows that it is contrary to God’s justice for sin to go unpunished. to simply withhold the reward of paradise by leaving the damned unconscious forever is no real punishment, since they are not aware of anything.

 

[MyPhilomena]

QUOTE=jschwehm:

“To distribute a tract like that and then to complain that others are going to point out inconsistencies and problems in your own religious organization is unreasonable. If you do not like the response then do not distribute tracts like this one that condemn all other groups to eternal destruction except yours. Remember the old maxim—People in Glass Houses, should NOT throw stones!!!”



“Unlike the JWs who describe all religious groups other than their own as a harlot destined for destruction by God, the Catholic Church refers to our Protestant Christian brothers and sisters as separated brethren and the Catholic Church has been a leader in the Ecumenical movement to be reunited with them. We also work with them in caring for the poor and sick.”



“Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that they can be identified for their love toward others but this love is directed primarily only at other JWs. This is true even in their charitable work, what little of it they actually do, where in times of disaster fellow JWs are helped and non-JWs get their leftovers if any.”



“My suggestion to our JW friends who have decided to visit this board is that they realize that the collection of books that they carry with them from door to door known as the New Testament (or as they call it the Christian Greek Scriptures) is a Catholic collection of books. And, that they would not have that collection of books were it not for the faithful Christian men and women of the Holy Catholic Church.”



“I often wonder why, since they believe the Catholic Church to be an apostate Church and a leading member of the world empire of False religion, do they believe that those books written by and chosen by Catholics are inspired of God if the Catholics who chose them are apostate Christians? It makes no sense to me. And it would be great to hear how you guys reconcile this.”

 

[Jaypeeto4]

To our Jehovah’s Witnesses guests here on the forums,
I’ve noted that in some of your posts you have stated that you have encountered JW Bashing on our forums.
I confess that in a couple of my own responses, I have responded in an angry and maybe even insulting tone, and for that, I humbly apologize to our Jehovah’s Witness guests here. Other posters have also posted less than gentle-toned answers to our Jehovah’s Witnesses guests on the forums, and I think we Catholics should stop, calm down, and consider a few things.
Our Jehovah’s Witness guests are not godless people, they firmly believe in Jehovah/Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the same God we Catholics worship. True, the JWs do not agree with us about the NATURE (Triune) of Yahweh, but neither do our Jewish or Moslem friends who visit these boards and we don’t blow our stacks at THEM over this, so let’s try and be gentler to our Jehovah’s Witness guests and respect the sincerity of their feelings even if we have to respectfully disagree with some (not all) of their Jehovahs Witness Beliefs.+

To our Jehovah’s Witness guests, I have to say in defense of myself and my Catholic brothers and sisters here, that you as new visitors don’t realize some of the habitual insults and ridicule that we on these forums have to put up with out of some of the visitors to these forums. Sometimes, when we see the same accusations levelled against our faith, accusations which we have answered over and over and over and over again, we get frustrated and sometimes lose our tempers. Some of us, including me, became hot tempered towards you all. We are not angry at you because you hold Jehovah’s Witness beliefs. We just sometimes get very frustrated to have the same accusations and assumptions thrown in our faces day after day. We have some Muslim visitors to these forums, for example, who not only state their own religious beliefs, but launch insulting and deliberately-provocative attacks on us personally, on our bishops and priests, and on the Catholic faith that we love and respect and cherish.
I apologize to you Jehovah’s Witness guests, and I’m sure my Catholic brothers and sisters here do the same.

To my Catholic brothers and sisters: Our JW friends here hold beliefs, sincerely, that we are convinced are erroneous and detrimental to their hope of salvation. Our Lord Jesus Christ told Saint Faustina Kowalska that anyone - ANYONE - who prayed sincerely the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy, would without fail receive God’s grace from Christ’s mercy. Christ attached many promises of grace and graces to those who pray this holy chaplet in faith. May I humbly suggest that we, as Catholics, commit to praying the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy once a month (at least) for the intention that God will pour out his sanctifying and enlightening grace on all members of the Jehovah’s Witness faith?
Our Lord has promised tremendous grace to those FOR WHOM we pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy as well. Our JW friends need, not our hot tempers, but our respect and our prayers for them. I, personally, am going to pray the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy for all members of the Jehovah’s Witness faith myself, today. I hope other Catholics will join me in doing this.

And to our Jehovah’s Witness forum guests, please keep coming back to the forums. I for one appreciate hearing from you.

Sincerely,
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)

 

[Catholic_Dude]

“Damascus” since you’ve asked several times for an answer to post# 85 I will do my best to oblige.
1- Can you tell me who is in charge at WTBS? Yes!
2- Can you give me a list of all the Governing Body members? Absolutely!

While I agree its not fair nor realistic to ask for each and every name of district and such, I would like to know who the “top 10” leaders are who head the WT, like who are the highest leaders? On the JW webpage I dont see names or faces or bios of any kind.

6- Can you tell me about the lives of the founder and subsequent leaders? Yes! There is no secret here, no mystery. We have a 725page book documenting the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Page 116 has a beautiful picture of our Governing Body (from 1992 - some have since passed away) all smiling sweetly in their suits and ties. Precious! This picture warms my heart. If you’re truly interested the book is entitled, “Jehovah’s Witnesses - Proclaimer’s of God’s Kingdom”.

Where would I find this book?

10- Do you know all the doctrines your faith teaches? Yes, I do! Would you like to know too? Go to: www.watchtower.org Click on "Jehovah’s Witnesses: Who are they? What do they believe? On the 3rd page under this heading you’ll find a table of our beliefs and the scriptures to back them up.

I have looked on that table before but I cant say Im satisfied with just being given and Scripture passage, for example one JW teaching on that list says:
Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person
What about passage like John 20:27 where Thomas physically touches Jesus?

And another thing that I think the JWs should have done a long time ago is to put their publications like “What does the Bible really teach” and “Daniels Prophecy” page by page on their webpage so people can read it online and search it online.

The lake of fire is a literal symbol that taught a spiritual truth just as the 7 headed beast represents the march of the world empires in connection with God’s people. I don’t believe in hell NOT because I think God wouldn’t do that and therefore, it’s not possible. I don’t believe in hell because the Bible doesn’t teach it. Period.

In fact, this is probably where many do some of their “sloppiest” Bible interpretation. The lake of fire is NOT hell. The word “hell” is translated from the Greek word HADES. (SHEOL is the Hebrew equivalent) In Revelation, we find a very clear distinction between HADES and the Lake of Fire. It says that HADES is thrown into the lake of fire. If the lake of fire is this hellfire, what does HADES represent? Answer: HADES was NEVER understood to be a place of fiery torment. It is the common grave (or gravedom) that was hurled into this fiery lake. (That’s also why Job prayed to go to hell/or Sheol.) What happens when you throw something into fire? It burns up and is destroyed. Therefore, the common grave of mankind would be destroyed. To understand the lake of fire as even being symbolic of a “hellfire” or place of torment results in confusing and inconsistent understandings of hell.

Thanks,
gspollet

Leaving out the word “hell” itself you cant just ignore passages like Mt 25:41 and other claims of “everlasting fire” and such.
While the lake of fire might be ‘symbolic’, it clearly entails a very real severe punishment/torture.

 

[jschwehm]

Hi Jaypeeto and others:

We can also ask for prayers for our Jehovah’s Witness brothers and sisters through the prayerchain that I run for this very purpose. Just send your request to:

prayerchain@catholicxjw.com

If you want to join this prayerchain, just email me at jschwehm@catholicxjw.com and we can put you on the email list.

For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion,
Have Mercy on Us and on the Whole World.

Jeff Schwehm
www.catholicxjw.com

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Hi.
To find that Jehovah’s Witness book, called
JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES PROCLAIMERS OF GOD’S KINGDOM, your best bet would be to drop by your local Kingdom Hall in between services, and go to their little literature nook and ask to make a donation for a copy. They don’t “sell” their literature anymore, but they are happy to take a voluntary donation for it.

Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Catholic Dude is correct.
Conscious punishment IS unending, eternal.
The Book of Revelation tells us that those who are
condemned by God HAVE NO REST DAY OR NIGHT.
If they are annihilated and fall into unconsciousness,
that is certainly having REST from punishment.
Moreover, each person’s punishment in hell is different.
Artists popularly show a mob of people all standing in one place in a sea of flames, but that’s not quite accurate. Some people’s sins are much more heinous than others, and their punishment is much more severe than others. But all the punishment for all the damned is unending in the sense that all the damned are forever outside of loving communion with God. Some will be beaten with many stripes, some with fewer stripes, just as Jesus said.
If everybody got the same punishment, and that same punishment was unconscious annihilation for all, then Jesus was lying when he said that some will be beaten with many stripes and others beaten with fewer stripes.
Hell is not a pleasant thing to think about, but it is a reality.
And ALL of the early Church fathers, without exception, believed in it, and this was hundreds of years even before the BIRTH of Constantine.

Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)

 

[jschwehm]

Hi gspollet and others:

You guys will have great difficulty discussing anything doctrinal or any Biblical interpretation until you discuss your first principles.

In other words, how do Catholics and Jehovah’s Witnesses interpret the New Testament?

When I was a JW, I read the New Testament and interpreted its meaning according to what the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses taught me.

As a Catholic, I read the New Testament and understand it now with the Tradition of the Catholic Church as a guide.

For example gspollet says:

I don’t believe in hell NOT because I think God wouldn’t do that and therefore, it’s not possible. I don’t believe in hell because the Bible doesn’t teach it. Period.

How do you know, gspollet, that people cannot read the New Testament and interpret it in such a way so that the traditional view of Hell is what they see being taught in scripture?

The first question that Jehovah’s Witnesses need to ask themselves is:

**Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses view the New Testament as the ultimate God inspired literary source for Christian truth, when the books of the New Testament were collected and declared as inspired of God through the teaching authority of the Catholic Church–an authority that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have declared to be the leading apostate religious authority on earth? **

The fact of the matter is and history demonstrates the following: We would not have the New Testament today were it not for the Catholic Church who collected it and declared those books inspired and preserved those books from destruction for centuries.

The second question that Jehovah’s Witnesses must ask themselves given the claim they make to being the re-established true religion on earth is:

**Did Christians of the early centuries believe the same doctrines and practice the same things that the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe and practice today?

In short, can the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ version of Christianity be confirmed from non-biblical sources in the early centuries of Christianity’s existence where we have the writings of Christians who learned the faith either directly from the apostles or from those who knew the apostles personally?**

Until these questions are addressed, discussions about the nature of Hell, the nature of God, the nature of salvation are all meaningless because we will not really be able to speak with one another or understand where the other person is coming from.

I hope that makes sense and I would invite our Jehovah’s Witness guests to answer these questions for us.

Jeff Schwehm

www.catholicxjw.com

 

[Mommyof02green]

Remember, the people on this forum are “strangers.” Anyone could post here. In fact, I could have impersonated a Catholic and I seriously doubt anyone here would have been the wiser.

If you post thing that are TRUE to the Catholic Faith, then yes maybe nobody would pick up the fact that you were NOT Catholic.

With that being said if you said that you were Catholic and posted things like the soul is mortal or that there was NO Hell…. People here would question what kind of Catholic are you??? Most of the Catholics here on this forum knows his/her Catholic Faith.

I assume you know your faith, as well. (I’m I right???). I assume that if I were to say I was a JW and make clams about the JW faith that was not true you would call me out. You would point out to me that this is not what the JW faith teaches. You would question what kind of JW I was or am.

In my opinion you are in error to say We, Catholics, would not realize that you were not Catholic based on your postings. Again if you were to say things that were TRUE about the Catholic faith, then yes it may go unnoticed. However, if you were to make statements about the Catholic Faith that were NOT true, you would have people here questioning what kind of Catholic are you. Not, only that but the Catholic here would also suggest to you that you learn what the Catholic Faith really teaches.

Q: As Catholics, do we have to accept everything the Church teaches?
Answer (click here}

The comment was made how JW are untied in “Faith and Believes”. Well so are all the Catholics of the world. We use the Bible and the CCC (Magisterium) to help guide us. We admit that there are some people that are Catholics that don’t live the faith fully.

I know that there are JW that don’t live your faith fully because if there were then there would be no need for you to have “disfellowship”. You have “disfellowship” because people don’t live your faith fully.

Also, before you start shouting from the roof tops that Catholics use the CCC (Magisterium), remember your faith prints out Monthly Newsletters. What is the purpose of these monthly newsletters??? I know that they are not just for the Non-JW because I have seen a member of your faith read them along with her Bible at the Laundry Mat.

The JW use the Bible and their monthly newsletters to learn what their faith teaches them. Catholics use the Bible and the CCC to learn what their faith teaches them.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Good post, mommyof02green.
It really does boil down to a question of
“WHO on earth has the authority to teach and interpret God’s Word??”

The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that their Governing Body, whom they call the “faithful and discreet slave,” have that authority from God and that nothing that the faithful and discreet slave teach, via books and the pages of the Watchtower, can be doubted or denied without commiting Apostasy.

Catholics believe that the authority to teach the Faith and interpret the scriptures, in it’s finality, rests with the Successor of Saint Peter and the Bishops of the Church in full communion with Peter’s successor. Christ, conferring this authority on Peter, actually changed Simon’s name TO Kepha (which we read as Peter) when he conferred this authority. Whenever God changed a person’s name in the Old Testament, it always, always, always meant that the person was being given a new role and/or significance. Jesus, in Aramaic, literally said to Peter,
“You are Kepha, and upon this Kepha I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you (Peter/Kepha, in the singular) the Keys of the Kingdom and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven…”
Kepha means a ROCK (not a pebble or mere stone, as some of our fundamentalist protestant friends like to claim). Peter was thus the foundation of the visible church on earth, which would never disappear from the face of the earth until the end of time and the 2nd Coming of Christ.

My question to our Jehovah’s Witness friends would be, When did Yahweh commission the Watchtower Society as his unique Authority on Earth, and by what outward signs did he manifest His choice of the Watchtower Society, so that all men of good will are thus duty bound to submit to the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society ??

Jesus proved his OWN authority by working tons of miracles.
Peter/Kepha/Cephas established proof of his authority from Christ by the fact that he, too, performed undeniable miracles.

What evidence do we have that God ever conferred such authority upon the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society ??

Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)

 

[Mommyof02green]

I outline all of the reasons that Babylon the Great represents “the world empire of false religion”, and all I get is a bunch of JW-bashing.

I don’t remember bashing the interpretation you gave regarding the Harlot of Babylon. See my post here.

click on blue arrow

Can you please tell me where I did some JW-bashing in the post I’m referring to.

Later you did ask about Armageddon. I pointed out that the according to sources I have read JW have changed their view on Armageddon over the years. The sources I read gave quotes from the Watchtower Monthly Newsletters. If that’s JW-bashing then I’m sorry.

I’ve been on the watchtowers Internet page: Why can’t I pull up an article from Watchtower re: Armageddon that is dated in the 1970’s or earlier??

So I gave a source that stated that your faith has changed their view of Armageddon over the years. (Is it true has the JW faith change it’s few re: Armageddon? Can you read the earlier Wathtower Newsletters and see it for yourself? The sources I gave tell us what Watchtower Newsletter to read… can you read them for youself and see if it’s true or not?)

Then I gave you what sources that told you what Catholics believe regarded the End Times. I don’t understand how that is JW-bashing. However if you feel that it is then I’m sorry.

click on the blue arrow to see my post re: Armageddon

clich on the blue arrow to see my second post re: Armageddon

 

[Mommyof02green]

I used to work with a Catholic gentleman, and he could never explain a single thing from the Bible. He seemed to be an expert in the matters of official Church teachings and staunchly supported the Church. But it wasn’t just that he could not defend his faith from the Bible; it was as if he did not care.

Many Catholic “know” the bible, they just don’t realize it. The Catholic Church teaches the bible and uses the bible for everything: Even how we worship (which I will show you later).

The problem is that the avg. Catholic can’t belt out chapter and verse. What does the mean? This means that they may not be able to point a specific chapter and verse and say well in “This book” “This Chapter”: “This verse” the bible said, “______________.”

I, myself, have a heard time with proclaiming chapter and verse re: this topic or that topic. However, thanks to the Internet, Bible studies, and forums such as CAF I’m getting better. I believe I have quoted the CCC here before paragraph 133 “To be ignorant of Scripture means you are ignorant of Christ”.

The Bible is at the heart of the Mass (The Mass is what we call our services). Your Avg. Catholic, providing he/she goes to Mass regularly knows the Bible, he/she just may not realize it, because again the avg. Catholic is not good with chapter and verse. We learn the bible we are just not taught to memorize this verse or that verse.

The following web-link will show you the “Order of the Mass” what is said when it is said, and by whom it is said. The web-link will also show you were in the Bible these things come from.

click here to see Bible citations for the Mass click here

As you can see 97% of what is said during the Mass comes straight from the Bible. Now your avg. Catholic is not going to be able to give you the chapter and verse for everything that is said during Mass like the web-page did. However, every Catholic that goes to Mass regularly knows the words…they know a lot more of the Bible then they think they know.

The avg. Catholic may tell you about Catholic Doctrine and Believes. They may not know the chapter and verse to back it up, but it can be found in the Bible. There is a nice book that is written by Patrick Madrid. “Where is that in the Bible?” The book shows where to find things regarding the Catholic Faith in the Bible.

I suggest to all my Catholic-brother and sisters…. Don’t get discourage! If you don’t know the answer to questions like “Where is that in the Bible?”

Tell the person you don’t know, but you are sure it is in the Bible. Tell them that you need time to find the answer, and that you will get back to them in a few days. Spend the few days looking for the answer, and when you find it share it with them. Also, be sure to get back to them within the time frame you said you would.

There are many web-pages and books out there that can help you find the answer. Also, don’t be afraid to pick up the CCC to look for the answer. The CCC uses the Bible to help explain things. There are OVER 1000 citations to the Bible in the CCC.

I have found that people respect you more when you can say I don’t know, but I will find out and get back to you in 3-5 days then they do if you just ignore it or wave it off as no big deal.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Good post, mommyof02green.

Thanks