The Fear of Hell

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oldcelt said:
No need for tending when you create all from eternity…is there? For the Christian God to do so would infer that he does not foresee all, preordain all future events, etc., all doctrines of The Church. It also infers that God exists in time. If those tenets are not true, which I believe, you are one step closer to Deism. I respect the creator, because I do not believe that he would create something as imperfect as humanity…we are simply a result of his initial creative act. An accident if you will.
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Might as well be an atheist. 🤷
 
oldcelt said:
Why? I believe in a creator. Just not one who personally foresaw my life or my destiny.
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Fairly impotent, thoughtless, and uncaring creator.

Why must the deist God be such a jerk?!

We believe God made us in his image and likeness, not equal to him, but able to share in his attributes of creativity, thought, and compassion. If he has not these attributes, we are superior to him, in which case the deist thinks like the atheist, not in thinking we are equal to God or that God does not exist, but in thinking that God is less than we are.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Fairly impotent, thoughtless, and uncaring creator.

Why must the deist God be such a jerk?!

We believe God made us in his image and likeness, not equal to him, but able to share in his attributes of creativity, thought, and compassion. If he has not these attributes, we are superior to him, in which case the deist thinks like the atheist, not in thinking we are equal to God or that God does not exist, but in thinking that God is less than we are.
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God is infinity greater than us. He called the universe into existence…something that is certainly well beyond any of us. However, the attributes you mention developed along with humanity in my world view.

So far as being a ____, have you read the Old Testament recently?
 
oldcelt said:
God is infinity greater than us. He called the universe into existence…something that is certainly well beyond any of us. However, the attributes you mention developed along with humanity in my world view.

So far as being a ____, have you read the Old Testament recently?
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I read it every day. 👍 The New Testament as well.

Makes more sense to me than the indifferent, cold-hearted, insufferably remote deist God.

If your God does not love, why do you respect or even love him? You don’t even obey him because you think he is so remote he doesn’t care if you do or you don’t. So the effect is to act like the atheists and make up your own morality and pronounce it superior to any other, and especially the morality of the Christian God.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
I read it every day. 👍 The New Testament as well.

Makes more sense to me than the indifferent, cold-hearted, insufferably remote deist God.

If your God does not love, why do you respect or even love him? You don’t even obey him because you think he is so remote he doesn’t care if you do or you don’t. So the effect is to act like the atheists and make up your own morality and pronounce it superior to any other, and especially the morality of the Christian God.
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Humans have always created morality. It existed well before Jesus and is seen in Leviticus. What remains has stood the test of time. No divine writer needed.

So far as the Deist god, the mere act of initial creation is miraculous enough for me.
 
oldcelt said:
Humans have always created morality. It existed well before Jesus and is seen in Leviticus. What remains has stood the test of time. No divine writer needed.
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So you think Moses did not get the divine law from God.

Moses, not God, gave us the Ten Commandments?

You old historical revisionist you! 😉
 
The very act of creation is love. Love is nurturing. If there is no love in the creation, then it is as good as saying there is no intent in creating and we are all accidents. If there’s no intent in creating, surely there is chaos in the midst of creation, to the point we will even cease to exist because no stability and harmony can be found.

I look around us and beyond earth, all I see is His loving sustenance. Every planet and every star has its purpose, even the sun and the moon are at the right distance from earth for a purpose. Any closer to the sun, there may not be water. Any closer to the moon and the waters will be chaotic.
 
oldcelt said:
Humans have always created morality. It existed well before Jesus and is seen in Leviticus. What remains has stood the test of time. No divine writer needed.So far as the Deist god, the mere act of initial creation is miraculous enough for
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Jesus is{eternal love } before the universe was created… Rising from the dead is the greatest miracle; and if we take up our trials, doubts, and tribulations we shall reside with the Family of God.

God Bless:)
 
GuyNextDoor said:
The very act of creation is love. Love is nurturing. If there is no love in the creation, then it is as good as saying there is no intent in creating and we are all accidents. If there’s no intent in creating, surely there is chaos in the midst of creation, to the point we will even cease to exist because no stability and harmony can be found.

I look around us and beyond earth, all I see is His loving sustenance. Every planet and every star has its purpose, even the sun and the moon are at the right distance from earth for a purpose. Any closer to the sun, there may not be water. Any closer to the moon and the waters will be chaotic.
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There is chaos. Meteor strikes, comets hitting Jupiter, massive solar flares, exploding stars, earthquakes, tornadoes and so on. We will probably cease to exist one day as a species, but that is how the universe is.
 
oldcelt said:
Maybe…all I said is that creation of the universe is enough for me. I haven’t seen anything else to this point.
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To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did. Happy searching !!

God Bless:)
 
oldcelt said:
Maybe…all I said is that creation of the universe is enough for me. I haven’t seen anything else to this point.
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I expect hell is not seeing any more than I’d want to see.

Yes, we have a hidden God, but he loves to play hide-and-seek.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
I expect hell is not seeing any more than I’d want to see.

Yes, we have a hidden God, but he loves to play hide-and-seek.
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Which brings us full circle. To fear hell, you first have to believe in a god that has infallible foreknowledge and utilizes preordination and still condemns people to eternal torment. Well, that leaves me out.
 
oldcelt said:
Which brings us full circle. To fear hell, you first have to believe in a god that has infallible foreknowledge and utilizes preordination and still condemns people to eternal torment. Well, that leaves me out.
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You are right…we are going round & round in a big circle with no answer in sight :juggle: …I’m out !
 
oldcelt said:
They aren’t…I just don’t believe that god has anything to do with life on Earth or our individual creation. God is the first cause and creation has continued on without his intervention.
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In a previous post you implied that creation is continuous, not a once-for-all affair. In either case it seems very odd that the Creator doesn’t know what He is doing. Your idea of God seems to be an impersonal Source of energy.
 
oldcelt said:
Which brings us full circle. To fear hell, you first have to believe in a god that has infallible foreknowledge and utilizes preordination and still condemns people to eternal torment. Well, that leaves me out.
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You are still not getting it.

We damn ourselves to eternal torment because we could have chosen eternal joy and peace.
 
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