The Fear of Hell

[Magdalena59]

I’ve gone through this before with others…others online whom i tested, if you wanna call it that. Due to my fears mostly.

While i lacked and still lack belief, i turned to them “Your kind of people” and found that that there is no real love. Found that my sins may be forgiven by Christ, but not His people, if they knew of them.

I went through it with some of them in emails , one for almost over 3 yrs by asking what would do they do and think of me if they all knew my sins? What would they really think of me, even if i had confessed to a priest? What if l lived in their neighbourhood, instead of the convenience and easy-peasy way of them telling me i am loved online alone~?

What would their friends do and think of me? Do you really love me as yourself? Do you really love me as He loved you?

All i got was excuses. Changes into what love was,or what i thought it was, so as they would not have to commit to someone like me and merely just say the word love so that in their minds, Jesus will bless them for it. Just say it casually, as if they telling a lamp post they loved it and then wallowed in their own self-satisfaction. One called it a “FRATERNAL” love…lol…others merely remained silent when i asked for a REAL friend too…

The word love is bastardised and used to suit so that people, if i begged them for it, would either not say a thing, or change the word so that it meant NOTHING…It’s a throw-away word…Pass someone in the street, say" i love you", i reply, “then will you be a real friend when i have none?” They reply with either, “Go find other friends, i’m rather picky about mine, go find other friends OTHER than me or my friends…i’m late for church…byeeeeeee”

Or the usual cliche" You have to earn your friendship Simon"

Or, “We will pray for you…and notihng more.”

If you think i’m out of line for writing the above that’s ok.

Simon

I don’t think you are out of line but maybe looking in the wrong places. I think that too sometimes. If people knew my sins, all my horrible sins they would not be my friend any more and maybe they wouldn’t. I have lost friendships because of lesser things but one thing has always been for sure and that is when I didn’t think I had a friend God was there and in time he led me to a friend but He has always been my closest friend and was there even when I didn’t feel him there, even in my darkest hour.

As Saint Augustine said “our hearts are restless until we rest in God”. It is God we are searching for and when we find him we rest, not because our loneliness, or our problems go away but because we slowly become united with him and he walks with us through every problem

 

[simonmic]

He gave it to you so that you might choose him or the devil.

The devil is very good at using our doubts to trap us in despair.

I’ve made my choice, by in effect, not believing in Him…The wish to believe is there though…If only He could come to me…Please dont tell me to seek Him when i can’t find Him.

 

[simonmic]

I don’t think you are out of line but maybe looking in the wrong places. I think that too sometimes. If people knew my sins, all my horrible sins they would not be my friend any more and maybe they wouldn’t. I have lost friendships because of lesser things but one thing has always been for sure and that is when I didn’t think I had a friend God was there and in time he led me to a friend but He has always been my closest friend and was there even when I didn’t feel him there, even in my darkest hour.

As Saint Augustine said “our hearts are restless until we rest in God”. It is God we are searching for and when we find him we rest, not because our loneliness, or our problems go away but because we slowly become united with him and he walks with us through every problem

If they could not be, or want to be your friends because of your sins then what’s the point in being Catholic? It’s a farce!

 

[simonmic]

I don’t think you are out of line but maybe looking in the wrong places. I think that too sometimes. If people knew my sins, all my horrible sins they would not be my friend any more and maybe they wouldn’t. I have lost friendships because of lesser things but one thing has always been for sure and that is when I didn’t think I had a friend God was there and in time he led me to a friend but He has always been my closest friend and was there even when I didn’t feel him there, even in my darkest hour.

As Saint Augustine said “our hearts are restless until we rest in God”. It is God we are searching for and when we find him we rest, not because our loneliness, or our problems go away but because we slowly become united with him and he walks with us through every problem

Your darkest hour?

If can’t believe in Him, then who was i to turn to? Those who did, right? And what was their response do you think?

 

[Lucy107]

If they could not be, or want to be your friends because of your sins then what’s the point in being Catholic? It’s a farce!

That’s their thing.

It’s prudent to not go shopping for kiwis in a shoe store, as they say.

It seems to me that the actual issue here for you is that you see no point or no reason, no grounds for believing in God, after witnessing the way some Catholics have treated you.

 

[Tom_Baum]

If God is infinitely good, He must have an infinite hatred of evil. Hence Hell.

‘The works of God are perfect, and all his ways are judgements: God is faithful and without any iniquity, he is just and right.’ (Deuteronomy 32:4)

Hell does not need to be reconciled with God’s love; God has already revealed its existence. We need to trust in God, Who is Truth, Love, Wisdom and Justice. The Saints did, and in reward for their faith, God revealed Himself to them most intimately; and the better they knew Him, the more they loved Him. Many of them were willing to suffer the pains of Hell rather than offend God. Who, then, is deceived: the Saints, or those who refuse to believe in Hell?

Here are some quotes that I have found to be very compelling:

St. Gregory the Great: “The wicked only put an end to sinning because their life came to an end: they would indeed have wished to live forever, that they might continue in sin forever for they desire rather to sin than to live.”

Our Lady to St. Bridget: 'Therefore, they shall be tormented for all eternity because of their constant intention of sinning, and my Son, who sees the heart, counts that as a deed. For they would fulfil their will with deeds if my Son tolerated or allowed it.”

“O my Jesus, forgive us our sins; save us from the fires of Hell; lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy!”

Do you also finds the words to the prayer you quoted, “O my Jesus, forgive us our sins; save us from the fires of Hell; lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy!”, also compelling?

Have you ever thought about some or all of the words in this prayer?

Especially these words, “lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy!”?

I hear lots of people say this prayer but sometimes I wonder just how many believe it, do you believe what this prayer very simply asks of Jesus?

 

[simonmic]

That’s their thing.

It’s prudent to not go shopping for kiwis in a shoe store, as they say.

It seems to me that the actual issue here for you is that you see no point or no reason, no grounds for believing in God, after witnessing the way some Catholics have treated you.

I think of you knew of my sins, you might do as they did too.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Whenever someone asks this overused and recycled question “If God is loving why would he send people to hell?” or assert that they dont believe in a hell because an all loving God would never send people there, i always answer with this: What if i *wanted *to go to hell? If i wanted to go to hell but God was too loving to send me there or did not create one because he was too “just”, then he would be unjust, because i want to go (not that i actually want to) but the point is made. So ergo, there is a hell or at least the possibility for one becomes open.

You have never experienced hell, have you?

I “know” that the answer to this question is no.

If you ever experience hell, you will know instantly that what you have written in your response will cease to be your opinion.

 

[Tom_Baum]

I think of it like this: Say you are a Judge and you have a child. As that child grows you are loving, kind, forgiving and teach that child right from wrong. You do everything you can to help that child lead a healthy, moral and responsible life, but inspite of your best efforts they rebel. They lie, and you forgive them, they cheat, and you forgive them, they continue on in life committing worse and worse crimes. They even turn their back on you, cutting off all ties. They have nothing but disdain for you. Finally they are a fully fledged adult and they are a thief, a rapist and a murderer. They are brought to your courtroom and it is found that they are unquestionable guilty of all charges. You are their judge and you still love them. What do you do? And whose fault is it that your child is in this situation, yours or theirs?

According to the “Catholic Church”, Jesus died for ALL of this person’s sins.

As far as, “Say you are a Judge and you have a child.”

Wouldn’t the saying be better if it said, “Say you are God and you created someone in Your Image”?

I would hope that not only would God be more merciful than us but also that God, being God, would come up with a “Godly way” of convincing, voluntarily not forcibly, everyone to repent.

As the old saying goes, “God created us in His Image and we have been trying to return the favor ever since”.

Could be that God just might be able to do things that we either think is impossible or just plain don’t think of at all.

 

[oldcelt]

But since you don’t even believe the Christian God exists, he’s not really your enemy is he?

No, but the concept is as I have stated. That is why I made the choice I made. My mind refuses to believe in the big judge in the sky…only a creator. Beyond that, we are on our own.

 

[Magdalena59]

Your darkest hour?

If can’t believe in Him, then who was i to turn to? Those who did, right? And what was their response do you think?

I am not sure what you are saying here.

If they could not be, or want to be your friends because of your sins then what’s the point in being Catholic? It’s a farce!

The point of being Catholic is not to have friends. Friends are a blessing that comes from God. Knowing God leads you to the right friends. Jesus tells us to seek first his kingdom and everything else will be added to you.

The point of being Catholic is to glorify God here while on this Earth so we can spend eternity with Him in the next life.

Friends are important and good to have but they will come and go in life.

Our society today puts a lot of emphasis on having friends through alll the social medias but in reality statistics show people are lonelier today because of social media.
I enjoy coming to this website and I learn something new every time I come here and enjoy talking to people but many here come and go so in seeking out true friendships I sought God and it was He who led me to Catholic friends.

Sometimes being Catholic can be lonely because you are going against the tide of culture but God is always there and He will lead you.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Is it possible that some people are so committed to evil they are not bothered by the idea of hell, may even welcome it as a final destination in life and a gainful place of employment in wickedness?

If so, would that signify so deranged a mind that God would not grant such a fantasy?

Think Marquis de Sade.

 

[simonmic]

The point of being Catholic is not to have friends. Friends are a blessing that comes from God. Knowing God leads you to the right friends. Jesus tells us to seek first his kingdom and everything else will be added to you.

The point of being Catholic is to glorify God here while on this Earth so we can spend eternity with Him in the next life.

Friends are important and good to have but they will come and go in life.

Our society today puts a lot of emphasis on having friends through alll the social medias but in reality statistics show people are lonelier today because of social media.
I enjoy coming to this website and I learn something new every time I come here and enjoy talking to people but many here come and go so in seeking out true friendships I sought God and it was He who led me to Catholic friends.

Sometimes being Catholic can be lonely because you are going against the tide of culture but God is always there and He will lead you.

You sought God and conveniently found friends who were willing to accept you. So you ain’t lonely then.

Ain’t you the lucky one for finding God, then friends…So, if i can’t find God,coupled with my terrible sins, that would explain why “your kind of friends” would never make friends with me…Including yourself.

 

[Magdalena59]

You sought God and conveniently found friends who were willing to accept you. So you ain’t lonely then.

Ain’t you the lucky one for finding God, then friends…So, if i can’t find God,coupled with my terrible sins, that would explain why “your kind of friends” would never make friends with me…Including yourself.

Actually there are many times I am lonely and my friends do not always accept me. I had a friend walk away from me the other day because of my Catholic faith. Plus I am someone who has to work very hard to make friends. I am not one who makes friends easily. Also, myself and my friends are not always kind. I can frequently be rude and sinful but again that is where the sacrament of reconciliation comes in and our day to day seeking God.

Why are you telling your friends all of your sins? I don’t tell my friends all of my sins. That is for confession and confession to God not to friends. Once the sins are forgiven and wiped away we need to move on and start a new.

Psalm 103: As far as the East is from the West so far does he remove our transgressions from us.

Isaiah 1:18 says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.

Seek God in the sacraments, especially the sacrament of reconciliation.

 

[simonmic]

Actually there are many times I am lonely and my friends do not always accept me. I had a friend walk away from me the other day because of my Catholic faith. Plus I am someone who has to work very hard to make friends. I am not one who makes friends easily. Also, myself and my friends are not always kind. I can frequently be rude and sinful but again that is where the sacrament of reconciliation comes in and our day to day seeking God.

Why are you telling your friends all of your sins? I don’t tell my friends all of my sins. That is for confession and confession to God not to friends. Once the sins are forgiven and wiped away we need to move on and start a new.

Psalm 103: As far as the East is from the West so far does he remove our transgressions from us.

Isaiah 1:18 says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.

Seek God in the sacraments, especially the sacrament of reconciliation.

You had to work hard to find friends yet you need them too i expect. You ain’t gonna say you’re picky too are ya? lol Of course that would surely leave me out of the equation now and most likely anytime.

The way i see it is that most people need people more than God…They can say they love God first all they like, but to me they need each other more because you are all real to each other…You can see each other, talk to each other in a tangible way.

Why not all of us go do as i have jokingly proposed i do. Go live in the hollow of a tree like St. Simon Stock!..Show everyone that god comes first to you and GOD ALONE! instead of all your wordly delights, people, material things too… WHICH COME FIRST!. People want the best of both worlds because they could not stand being only and i mean ONLY devoted to God alone! Because being truly faithful to God is a lonely business!

I wont be seeking, or getting the Sacrament of Communion because i believe the people around me there would not have wanted me anywhere near them. Why not tell them? If they believe in true forgievness and love , why not tell them?..so as i can truly see they really believe in it and truly believe in them as being REAL CATHOLICS!

If i don’t partake in the Eucharist i am as good as dead, right? Jesus says i am dead.

Simon

 

[Magdalena59]

You had to work hard to find friends yet you need them too i expect. You ain’t gonna say you’re picky too are ya? lol Of course that would surely leave me out of the equation now and most likely anytime.

The way i see it is that most people need people more than God…They can say they love God first all they like, but to me they need each other more because you are all real to each other…You can see each other, talk to each other in a tangible way.

Why not all of us go do as i have jokingly proposed i do. Go live in the hollow of a tree like St. Simon Stock!..Show everyone that god comes first to you and GOD ALONE! instead of all your wordly delights, people, material things too… WHICH COME FIRST!. People want the best of both worlds because they could not stand being only and i mean ONLY devoted to God alone! Because being truly faithful to God is a lonely business!

I wont be seeking, or getting the Sacrament of Communion because i believe the people around me there would not have wanted me anywhere near them. Why not tell them? If they believe in true forgievness and love , why not tell them?..so as i can to truly see they really believe in it and truly believe in them as being REAL CATHOLICS!

If i don’t partake in the Eucharist i am as good as dead, right? Jesus says i am dead.

Simon

I totally agree we do all need each other and maybe that is why God does not appear physically to each of us. Maybe He wants us to seek Him out in others and by loving others and giving to others.

You are kind of throwing me and others out of the equation of being your friends without giving us a chance. You would like friends and do not want them to judge you because of what you have done in the past but you are judging them also before even getting to knw them. Give people a chance. Let them get to know the real you. The real you is not your sins but the beautiful person created in the image and likeness of God.

There are many people who take vows of poverty and choose God and God alone. The Sisters of Charity that follow Mother Teresa live day to day by faith that God will provide for them.

There is nothing wrong with having things but I agree we can’t let those things come before God. We must be willing to forsake them.

Being a real Catholic doesn’t mean I need to know other peoples sins. I know they sin. I know I sin. Trust me the people around you that you think won’t like you if they knew you sinned have committed sins also. We aren’t to look at peoples sins. We are to see Jesus in people, not their sins. We all worry sometimes that if people knew what I did what would they think but again that is what confession is for. Confess to God, not to others. God is there waiting for all of us there in that beautiful sacrament and then take Holy Eucharist and accept His love.

Accept Jesus’ cleansing love and leave sins of the past behind. The past will never see the future. Don’t try to punish God and others by depriving yourself and not going to the Sacraments.

 

[simonmic]

I totally agree we do all need each other and maybe that is why God does not appear physically to each of us. Maybe He wants us to seek Him out in others and by loving others and giving to others.

You are kind of throwing me and others out of the equation of being your friends without giving us a chance. You would like friends and do not want them to judge you because of what you have done in the past but you are judging them also before even getting to knw them. Give people a chance. Let them get to know the real you. The real you is not your sins but the beautiful person created in the image and likeness of God.

There are many people who take vows of poverty and choose God and God alone. The Sisters of Charity that follow Mother Teresa live day to day by faith that God will provide for them.

There is nothing wrong with having things but I agree we can’t let those things come before God. We must be willing to forsake them.

Being a real Catholic doesn’t mean I need to know other peoples sins. I know they sin. I know I sin. Trust me the people around you that you think won’t like you if they knew you sinned have committed sins also. We aren’t to look at peoples sins. We are to see Jesus in people, not their sins. We all worry sometimes that if people knew what I did what would they think but again that is what confession is for. Confess to God, not to others. God is there waiting for all of us there in that beautiful sacrament and then take Holy Eucharist and accept His love.

Accept Jesus’ cleansing love and leave sins of the past behind. The past will never see the future. Don’t try to punish God and others by depriving yourself and not going to the Sacraments.

I judge because i fear you as you would fear me. So it keeps me isolated, but at the same time still wishing i could belong somewhere, be a part of something and “fit in”. I don’t mean to judge as such, but i have to do it to keep myself from thinking what you would be thinking of me if we did become friends and if you did find out. I do it also because it is my excuse to hide from the world i have always , in my opinion, feared somewhat since childhood and which would now fear me too because of what i did.

Even if i promised, as i do now to you, as i promised others too, not to commit those sins again, It would not matter a jot to anyone except my parents and siblings.

I can promise every day and every hour of the day to you i will not do what i did before, but i can’t promise some of the thoughts that come into my mind.

I made a vow never to do those things again and i will keep it.

Simon

 

[Lucy107]

I wont be seeking, or getting the Sacrament of Communion because i believe the people around me there would not have wanted me anywhere near them. Why not tell them? If they believe in true forgievness and love , why not tell them?..so as i can truly see they really believe in it and truly believe in them as being REAL CATHOLICS!

If i don’t partake in the Eucharist i am as good as dead, right? Jesus says i am dead.

A thorough study of the doctrine can go a long way to undo many problems that one has.

Because merely a vague knowledge of the doctrine and vague ideas about how to practice it are a recipe for confusion and despair.

 

[simonmic]

A thorough study of the doctrine can go a long way to undo many problems that one has.

Because merely a vague knowledge of the doctrine and vague ideas about how to practice it are a recipe for confusion and despair.

Did you get my reply to your message from earlier?

 

[Magdalena59]

I judge because i fear you as you would fear me. So it keeps me isolated, but at the same time still wishing i could belong somewhere, be a part of something and “fit in”. I don’t mean to judge as such, but i have to do it to keep myself from thinking what you would be thinking of me if we did become friends and if you did find out. I do it also because it is my excuse to hide from the world i have always , in my opinion, feared somewhat since childhood and which would now fear me too because of what i did.

Even if i promised, as i do now to you, as i promised others too, not to commit those sins again, It would not matter a jot to anyone except my parents and siblings.

I can promise every day and every hour of the day to you i will not do what i did before, but i can’t promise some of the thoughts that come into my mind.

I made a vow never to do those things again and i will keep it.

Simon

I think a lot of us have a fear of others. I suffer greatly sometimes from social anxiety. I don’t know why but there are times I too fear others. There is something inside of all of us that is afraid of what people would think if they knew us, truly knew us, including our sins and our deepest thoughts.

Many times also though we are afraid of what people would think of us if they knew our good thoughts and our longing for good.

I don’t know what you did but I know that just like me and all the rest of humanity you have sinned. I also know that there is cleansing and our sins do not have to identify us. I also know that I would be your friend even if I knew and I know that God has others out there who would be your friends even if they knew. We accept each others faults because we are all sinners. Everyone of us.

I understand and know the need to fit in. I have felt that longing before also and as I said earlier, I prayed, (many prayers and tears) and asked God’s help and He led me home but yes he did make me work at it and it took time but it was that searching for God. It is Jesus in the Church that filled my longing, not the people in the Church, though I am glad they are there. Unfortunately people do let us down but Jesus is the friend who sticks closer than a brother.

He will do the same for you. He loves you the same as He loves me and everyone else.

Jesus said He came to give life and in abundance. It is the devil that keeps reminding us of our sins and stealing life from us.