The Fear of Hell

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simonmic
Look i don’t know ok?
OMG! See! As in your eyes can see your PC monitor…SEE?
If you are talking about faith alone, then faith alone
If you can’t see God, can’t know, then what are we to say of faith “I believe in God” which without him I don’t know you could say, see or know, this being the most natural recourse I can think of. Being mad at him only means you do believe in him and perhaps have a fear of hell, or the darkness.

Faith alone is not really relevant, faith is, I would suggest we are all interconnected in faith though.
 
No, I think the story of Job shows the pettiness and cruelty of the Christian God. He is willing to sacrifice one of his most faithful, essentially to win a bet with his greatest enemy. A god such as this,is certainly not worthy of any praise. He is an enemy god.
If you take the story as a literalist you are correct, I believe it is an allegory from God the great mystery writer and Creator teaching us a little about Himself. That we need to plumb the depths of His creative ways after all He restored Job more abundantly with His love that can be the only reason.

God Bless:)
 
500 others? Did He not know the other continents around the the globe had people there too? I call 500 a select few…

Those Apostles…Would they have still believed had he not been resurrected? If not, then i am just as they were prior to his re-appearence right?
First the Jews, then the Gentiles. Those who accepted Him and obeyed Him knew God. Even if He had appeared to 1/5 of Earth’s population then, the rest of the 4/5 would still say the same thing as you.

“Why not me?”

Have you really asked yourself why were you not included in the things that were reserved for the faithful saints He chose?

Have you opened up and surrendered to God wholeheartedly to accept whatever ways He chooses to use to show you His existence, without relying on yourself & expecting your demands to be met?

Have Jesus met the demand from Peter when he refused to let Jesus do what He had to do? Have Jesus provided signs and miracles to everyone who demanded of them during that time?

Matthew 12:39
"38Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” 39But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; 40for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.…”

There, He said it. And throughout the Bible, He kept saying to have faith.

Matthew 9:29
28…Jesus said to them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.” 29Then He touched their eyes, saying, “It shall be done to you according to your faith.” 30And their eyes were opened…"

Seek God first and all things will come to place in His own time.
 
No, I think the story of Job shows the pettiness and cruelty of the Christian God. He is willing to sacrifice one of his most faithful, essentially to win a bet with his greatest enemy. A god such as this,is certainly not worthy of any praise. He is an enemy god.
That’s terrible to say God is not worthy of praise because of Job! :eek:

It wasn’t a bet, as you say, God showed satan just how faithful Job was during all his tribulations.

God restored everything to Job in the end! 👍
 
The level of consciousness is an unanswerable question when it comes to deities. I envision a force with consciousness, but can offer no proof. In the final analysis, I guess I just don’t believe in a god who created everything directly. That places too much responsibility on the deity for a variety of negative notions.
Why can’t you just accept the Love that Jesus gave when He gave His Life for every human being in the world by dying on the cross…and then rising from the dead, triumphantly, on the third day. :confused:

Why would the apostles lie about all that they witnessed in Jesus? There was only death awaiting them, not fame & fortune!
 
Yes, literally see and/or hear Him. What is wrong with needing that i ask? I am always here for Him if He wishes for me to believe. I never go out so He can come at any time He wishes, at His conveience.

What do you mean by see?
So, you’re like St. Thomas…won’t believe until you put your finger in Jesus’ wounds?

Imagine if Jesus was to do the same for the millions of Tom, Dick & Harry’s in this dumb world. Once, wasn’t enough! :mad:
 
Of course. But they needed a catalyst to bring them back to Him. I only ask for the same, or similar. I don’t even have to touch His wounds as St. Thomas did. Just a a tangible voice or vision of Him. He could even send a representative of His if He likes. A saint perhaps, to speak me. My guardian angel too.

Is that too much to ask a God for ?
Who the ( bleep ) are you that He must give you a personal touch?

Believe the Bible like the rest of us!!! :mad:
 
So, you’re like St. Thomas…won’t believe until you put your finger in Jesus’ wounds?

Imagine if Jesus was to do the same for the millions of Tom, Dick & Harry’s in this dumb world. Once, wasn’t enough! :mad:
Not really. Just to see or hear Him as i already stated. I don’t see that as asking much. If i asked for lots of money and fame and women, then i could understand His reservations…

…But not this!
 
So, you’re like St. Thomas…won’t believe until you put your finger in Jesus’ wounds?
Imagine if Jesus was to do the same for the millions of Tom, Dick & Harry’s in this dumb world. Once, wasn’t enough! :mad:
Who the ( bleep ) are you that He must give you a personal touch?
Believe the Bible like the rest of us!!! :mad:
:mad: ?

If there wouldn’t be so many other religions, demanding the same kind of “believe in our scriptures!” (each for its own scriptures, of course), you may have a point.

As things stand, walking into the world of religions is like walking into a room full of people, each of whom is shouting “Come with me! Follow me! I know the Truth, and all the others are wrong!”

So what is a person to do? Whom to follow?
 
I’ll keep on topic for once and again say, i need to see Hell to believe in God.
Unfortunately, by then, it may be too late.

There has been a meme in the “recovery community” (people who are recovering from alcoholism, drug abuse etc.) that one has to “hit rock bottom” in order to be able to recover and live a normal life. The operative belief being that “once things get so bad that they cannot get any worse, they will automatically get better.”

But this is simply not true. For all practical intents and purposes, things in a person’s life can get so bad that they are beyond repair.

I’m not sure inasmuch this goes for spiritual matters. But it seems that waiting for things to get really bad might not be the most prudent course of action to take, regardless whether it is about material or spiritual matters.
 
Not really. Just to see or hear Him as i already stated. I don’t see that as asking much. If i asked for lots of money and fame and women, then i could understand His reservations…

…But not this!
“Not really”…once wasn’t enough?? So Jesus would have to die millions of times for every non-believer in every year since the first!

Sounds like you’re asking Too much. 🤷

Good luck with your personal revelation! :dts:
 
Unfortunately, by then, it may be too late.

There has been a meme in the “recovery community” (people who are recovering from alcoholism, drug abuse etc.) that one has to “hit rock bottom” in order to be able to recover and live a normal life. The operative belief being that “once things get so bad that they cannot get any worse, they will automatically get better.”

But this is simply not true. For all practical intents and purposes, things in a person’s life can get so bad that they are beyond repair.

I’m not sure inasmuch this goes for spiritual matters. But it seems that waiting for things to get really bad might not be the most prudent course of action to take, regardless whether it is about material or spiritual matters.
It might well be too late for me.

The other poster simply assumed i wanted to touch Christ’s wounds, was offended by it and then let loose, as i have done myself at times on others.

If i can’t say sorry to Jesus , can’t believe in Him, hate myself as much as i do for my terrible sins, then my free will will take me wherever it chooses to go. He gave it to me after all.
 
“Not really”…once wasn’t enough?? So Jesus would have to die millions of times for every non-believer in every year since the first!

Sounds like you’re asking Too much. 🤷

Good luck with your personal revelation! :dts:
I don’t make revelations, i only wish i could believe and not pretend to believe.
 
I’ve heard many people on this forum say many times, “God doesn’t send you to hell, you do it yourself”

I guess i would reply, rather hesitantly, " Ok then, i will"

Not really knowing the full ramifications of what i’m saying or doing.
 
No, I think the story of Job shows the pettiness and cruelty of the Christian God. He is willing to sacrifice one of his most faithful, essentially to win a bet with his greatest enemy. A god such as this,is certainly not worthy of any praise. He is an enemy god.
But since you don’t even believe the Christian God exists, he’s not really your enemy is he?:confused:
 
If i can’t say sorry to Jesus , can’t believe in Him, hate myself as much as i do for my terrible sins, then my free will will take me wherever it chooses to go. He gave it to me after all.
He gave it to you so that you might choose him or the devil.

The devil is very good at using our doubts to trap us in despair.
 
I don’t make revelations, i only wish i could believe and not pretend to believe.
Maybe it’s not so bad.
Maybe you simply have the desire to move to the “next level.”
Maybe you’re just not willing to satisfy yourself with being a “cafeteria Christian.”
Maybe things don’t stop here, maybe there is more.
Maybe there is some other way to believe in God, other than “Just believe like all others do.”
Seems worth checking out.
 
It might well be too late for me.

The other poster simply assumed i wanted to touch Christ’s wounds, was offended by it and then let loose, as i have done myself at times on others.

If i can’t say sorry to Jesus , can’t believe in Him, hate myself as much as i do for my terrible sins, then my free will will take me wherever it chooses to go. He gave it to me after all.
Simonmic I understand where you are coming from. There is a time when we all want to see God to believe. There are those who learn by hearing, those who learn by doing and those who learn by seeing. You might fall into the category of those who learn by seeing.

God is speaking to you. He speaks to you all the time. I won’t say he will ever appear to you in person but he has left his Word, which is His love letter to us.

Also, the Catholic church is the visible sign of God in this world. Yes, there are problems but that is because the Church has people and all people are sinners. If you truly look at the Catholic church itself it’s history, it’s teachings and how God has led it and protected it you would see God and his wonderful work.

Many times als it is in other people we see God. The saints of yesterday and today are all images of God because they show how God worked in their life.

Ask God to reveal himself to you, not in a physical way but in a spiritual way, which is the closest you can get to him. Also, ask him to send you a saint or two to help you. Trust me he will but you have to keep your eyes and ears open and he will reveal himself to you in wonderful ways.

You mentioned your sins and I just want to say as someone who has committed some pretty horrible sins that there is nothing that can’t be forgiven. He is always there and has his arms open wide. Which reminds me there is another place to encounter God. You won’t see him personally physically but the Sacrament of Reconciliation is awesome and beautiful and a wonderful way to feel the presence of God and stop carrying the burden of those sins.

You might want to check out Saint John of the Cross.

God bless and praying for you.
 
Simonmic I understand where you are coming from. There is a time when we all want to see God to believe. There are those who learn by hearing, those who learn by doing and those who learn by seeing. You might fall into the category of those who learn by seeing.

God is speaking to you. He speaks to you all the time. I won’t say he will ever appear to you in person but he has left his Word, which is His love letter to us.

Also, the Catholic church is the visible sign of God in this world. Yes, there are problems but that is because the Church has people and all people are sinners. If you truly look at the Catholic church itself it’s history, it’s teachings and how God has led it and protected it you would see God and his wonderful work.

Many times als it is in other people we see God. The saints of yesterday and today are all images of God because they show how God worked in their life.

Ask God to reveal himself to you, not in a physical way but in a spiritual way, which is the closest you can get to him. Also, ask him to send you a saint or two to help you. Trust me he will but you have to keep your eyes and ears open and he will reveal himself to you in wonderful ways.

You mentioned your sins and I just want to say as someone who has committed some pretty horrible sins that there is nothing that can’t be forgiven. He is always there and has his arms open wide. Which reminds me there is another place to encounter God. You won’t see him personally physically but the Sacrament of Reconciliation is awesome and beautiful and a wonderful way to feel the presence of God and stop carrying the burden of those sins.

You might want to check out Saint John of the Cross.

God bless and praying for you.
I’ve gone through this before with others…others online whom i tested, if you wanna call it that. Due to my fears mostly.

While i lacked and still lack belief, i turned to them “Your kind of people” and found that that there is no real love. Found that my sins may be forgiven by Christ, but not His people, if they knew of them.

I went through it with some of them in emails , one for almost over 3 yrs by asking what would do they do and think of me if they all knew my sins? What would they really think of me, even if i had confessed to a priest? What if l lived in their neighbourhood, instead of the convenience and easy-peasy way of them telling me i am loved online alone~?

What would their friends do and think of me? Do you really love me as yourself? Do you really love me as He loved you?

All i got was excuses. Changes into what love was,or what i thought it was, so as they would not have to commit to someone like me and merely just say the word love so that in their minds, Jesus will bless them for it. Just say it casually, as if they telling a lamp post they loved it and then wallowed in their own self-satisfaction. One called it a “FRATERNAL” love…lol…others merely remained silent when i asked for a REAL friend too…

The word love is bastardised and used to suit so that people, if i begged them for it, would either not say a thing, or change the word so that it meant NOTHING…It’s a throw-away word…Pass someone in the street, say" i love you", i reply, “then will you be a real friend when i have none?” They reply with either, “Go find other friends, i’m rather picky about mine, go find other friends OTHER than me or my friends…i’m late for church…byeeeeeee”

Or the usual cliche" You have to earn your friendship Simon"

Or, “We will pray for you…and nothing more.”

If you think i’m out of line for writing the above, that’s ok.

Simon
 
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