The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

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One way to possibly handle an illogical comment like “Jesus never mentioned homosexuality” is to counter with an equally illogical statement like “Jesus never mentioned slavery”. Yeah, it’s childish, but chances are the person thinks slavery is wrong. I don’t know how well this works, though, I’ve never tried it.

Peace
 
Did Jesus have to teach everyone what they already knew? Natural Law already showed that homosexuality cannot survive because their will be no offpring to these relationships.
 
Thank you CPB for your kind words 👍
I have several close friends that are gay & lesbian. Each one of these friends is unique and has made different choices about how to live and lead their lives and I love all of them because they are beautiful people.

Some of those friends are Catholic and love God deeply. One friend in particular has been a great witness to the faith and an instrument in of hope in my life as he has been living a chaste life. His homosexuality has been a trial for him, and he has been able to climb above his inadequacies and temptations while giving all glory to God.

I also have gay & lesbian friends that aren’t Christian at all, who live their lives freely according to their own will. They aren’t perfect people but they are definately NOT wild fornicators or devious sexual miscreants. They are simply troubled people that do need Jesus in their lives, but have a lot of personal struggles to deal with in order to get there. If I wanted to, I could condemn them for who they are and the choices they have made, but that is not my calling to judge them. I too was once not a Christian living a life of pleasure and sin, but I did not come to know the Lord by being condemned, I came into my relationship with the Lord by witnessing how the faith and Eucharist had changed the lives of a few good people who are close to me. The best that I can do for these non-Christian friends of mine is to be a witness to them as others have been a witness to me.

I also have a lesbian friend who is a cradle Catholic that has strayed from the faith. She is finding it harder and harder to accept the church’s teachings because she, not being one of high self esteem, feels especially hurt by the teachings of a few condemning Catholics that tell her that she is damned because she is lesbian. I’m praying especially hard for her because she is a very special person to me and I do hope that she can find peace in the Church.

My point is that there are all types of people out there and everyone is at a different place in their lives. Although the church’s teachings on the act of homosexuality is immoral and a sin, we as Catholics cannot presume that homosexuals are more sinful than ourselves. We are all sinners, every human in this Church, even his most Holy John Paul II. It is how we accept our sinfulness and our love for God that matters most. Being homosexual is no more sinful than being heterosexual. It is even more difficult for a homosexual to embrace the faith because there are so many confused people that proclaim that being homosexual is a sin, when it is really the homosexual act that is sinful, not the person’s identity.
 
Thank you Anthony for your loving kindness towards those who are often rejected and ostracized by society. It is often hard for those who are different, who often are persecuted to see the beauty in God’s Church. Compassion such as yours truly inspires me and it that compassion that allows Christ’s reflection into the world. You make me very proud of what the human spirit is capable of. As a gay man myself I understand the complexities of this question. I understand the Christian perspective and also that of those who are gay. I too struggle with my personal identity. I know what the Church teaches and I am blessed to belong to a great parish. I have wonderful friends and a very loving family…but most do not have what I do. Most are bashed, slandered and often backed into a corner. To have people coming at you all the time telling you all your faults hurts and causes tremendous pain and often it takes them further away from Christ. Pride is such an evil spirit and what the Evil One has done to the homosexual person is bad enough…they don’t need to feel persecution also. Did not Christ ask us not to through stones at the adulterer? Do we judge President Regan as harshly because he is a divorcee…which is in the eyes of the Church adultery? We pick and choose what we dislike and disguise it with moral judgment. Shame on us!

I love Jesus so much and am so luck to be in the Catholic Church. I love the sacraments, the saints and most especially the Holy Mother. Without her comfort I would be lost. I pray the rosary every day. I belong to support groups and I go to mass every week. I lead Bible studies and teach Sunday school (I ALWAYS teach from the catechism…not from my opinions.) I do however still struggle. I long for human touch just like you do. I get lonely at night and want to feel love next to me. I want a best friend, a lover…someone I can give myself to but it won’t be a woman. God however has taken what was meant for my harm and given me great compassion for those who suffer. He has blessed me with a heart. Be careful my friends and be friends with those who are different. Don’t judge them or push your thoughts on them. Just be Christ to them…let him teach them what Christ is.
 
CPB - visit these sites:

sbministries.org/
Our Simple, Uncompromising Message: No One is Born “Gay”

And Complete Change is Completely Possible!
Emerging as One of the Nation’s Key Speakers on the Issues of

Homosexuality & the ‘Gay’ Agenda…

A Man who is Not Afraid To Speak the Truth***…* in Love.

** http://www.couragerc.org

Are you or a loved one experiencing homosexual attractions and looking for answers?
Code: 
        Courage,           an apostolate of the Roman Catholic Church, ministers to those with same-sex attractions and their loved           ones. We have been endorsed by the [Pontifical           Council for the Family. ](http://www.couragerc.org/endorsement.htm)

       From           our website you will learn about homosexuality and how by developing           an interior life of chastity, the universal call to all Christians,           one can            move beyond the confines of the homosexual identity to a more complete           one in Christ. 

        In Courage you           will get to know men and women who share in your concerns, meeting           them online or in person at chapter meetings, Conferences and Days of           Recollection. 

       Come see what we are about.  Browse our           pages.  Get to know our community.   You'll be glad you           did!
 
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Lorarose:
Jesus MAY have mentioned homosexuality!
And that MAY be why the early christians were opposed to it!

Many assume that the words and actions of Jesus portrayed in scriptures encompasses ALL the words and actions of Jesus.

But doesn’t the gospel of John tell us otherwise?
Didn’t he specifically say he could not accomplish that?

And that is why it is so important to look also at what the early christians taught about homosexuality - as they were closer to Jesus and the apostles - the ones who actually DID hear what Jesus had to say - whether it made it to “print” or not!
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Jesus was a Jew, and because the Jewsof his time rejected homosexuality so vehemently, he would not have had to bring up the subject in his ministry to the Jews. But as someone has said above, his exaulted notion of marriage between one man and one woman leaves no room for homosexuality.
 
Dear Buffalo,

Thank you for your un-requested show of love….yes, this is sarcasm. First, I know about Courage. I’ve attended many meetings for that self hating group. I became tired of watching men destroy there lives…constantly cry and feeling sorry for themselves. I’ve watched men, both Catholic and fundamental, marry women after extensive “help” from there ministers. They’ve been curied…so they say. I’ve also watched there sexless marriages destroy the beauty of what God created marriage to be. I’ve watched the men run into the bathrooms or adult bookstores in desperate acts of depravity. I’ve watch men lie to themselves saying they don’t need to look at there wife in a physical way because that is not what marriage is about…then wonder why there wife isn’t happy or satisfied because he doesn’t fully give himself to her. I’ve watched husbands leave there wives after realizing they can’t go on with this lie and destroy not only his life but his families too. I’ve also no men who have taken there life becasue they felt so ugly and empty inside. I agree with you Mr. Buffalo. God didn’t make me gay but he is using me as a tool to help others. To be love to others. He can do all things and certainly could make me straight but He probably will not and I have to accept God’s will in my life. I have to pick up the cross that has given me and be the man God is asking me to be. I don’t however need your “help”. I wasn’t asking for it. I was thanking that person for being something most Christians aren’t and that was love to someone who doesn’t necessarily live a Christian way of life. I hope you don’t show this courtesy to all those who are divorced, all those who are fat, all those who are thieves or even those who get drunk. All of these are sins too and they are found in the New Testament also.

Oh, and before you remind me that with my attitude I won’t be healed, well my friend that can be said for the person with cancer too. Why bad things happen to people I don’t know. I’m not going to spend my life wondering this. I want to love God by being love to someone else. So take your Courage group and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine.
 
CPB - Oooops! I wasn’t trying to do anything other than introduce you to something that I assumed you were not aware of. Love can be expressed in many ways - I truly thought this was one. Sorry.
 
Mr. Buffalo,

While I was praying last night I could not help but think about your e-mail and how it affected me. I wanted to apologize for my antagonistic response. I guess I still have many unresolved pains in my life and it shows me once again how much I need Christ’s love in my heart. It just gets so tiresome having people “helping” me…or acting as if they are the wounded person because the mean old gay guy is pushing his ideas on them. What they don’t see is how we are belittled and put down all the time. It’s hard always being told you’re not normal. It’s hard looking at everyone else wondering why we can’t be them. I know of these groups you speak of but I also no the great harm they can do. Some have been helped and some have found peace/ healing but more have found guilt and condemnation. I know you only meant to help me but there are so many people who feel a need to evangelize me and well it makes me mad. We are all children of God. We are all sinners and no ones sin is greater or lesser. Before I get retorts on that in the New Testament where they speak of sexual perversion they also mention it’s a sin to be fat, it’s a sin to lie, it’s a sin to steal, it’s a sin to commit adultery (and that also means looking at someone in a wrong way. These are all things every one of us has done and for many we do regularly. Don’t pick and choose what sin is worse because they are all equal in the eyes of God. I depend on Jesus to change me and I will depend on him and the grace of the Holy Mother to lead me into paradise. Pray for me…love me, but don’t evangelize to me. I don’t need to be reminded that I’m different. I also don’t need to hear once again how my lifestyle is unnatural…all our life styles are that’s why we need Jesus. Only Jesus can heal us and make us right with God.

Again, I’m sorry for snapping at you. Please forgive me.
 
CPB, You will be in my prayers. I have friends and relatives that are in the gay life style and I grieve for them. I have never discussed my feeling with them because they have not asked me. I just pray for them.

This is the story of Scott MacDermott with Marcus Grodi, I found it most helpful. ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?pgnu=2&SeriesID=-6892289

Have you searched the American Psychiatric Association? There are some Psychiatrists who have had success with reorientation therapy?

tfp.org This organization is very orthodox. They have a book called Defending A Higher Law. It is very informative about the Gay Agenda.

May Christ be with you always. Peg
 
No, I don’t want to go to therapy and I don’t need it. I’m who God wants me to be and needs me to be. I do not believe in reorientation and I think that is most harmful to the patient and our society. I have never known a person who truly changed. Changed because they wanted to be is different…and they all have sad lives with unfulfilling marriages. I could never do that to a woman or myself. My sin is no different then that of a divorce or even a man who looks at the Swim Suit edition of Sport Illustrated (they committed adultery in there heart). I thank you for you prayers but I don’t want you to pray for me for what you think I should be but what God wants me to be. These are very different ideas. We are judgmental sinful people and sometimes we let our own prejudges cloud are perception for God’s truth. I am not saying you are doing this…but be mindful about sin. Where the Bible talks about sexual perversion in the New Testament it speaks of those who get drunk (even once), those who are over weight (gluttony) or even a host of other things we all are at one time or another. These the Bible says will not inherit the Kingdom of God. I believe in Jesus, I love His church…even with her flaws. I do not think I’m going to Hell…purgatory maybe but not Hell. Jesus is my Lord and Savior and I depend on his promise.

Instead be kind to those who are different and don’t force your lifestyle on them. Let Jesus do that. Just be Christ and love them and let them have there own life with there own mistakes. Pray for them but worry about ourselves…God will take care of those things we cannot not. Do not Judge…that too is a sin!

In love and prayer, cpb
 
We know that Jesus said things that were not reported in the Gospels. For example, St. Paul tells us “I have showed you all things, how that so laboring you ought to support the weak, and to remember the word of the Lord Jesus, how he said: It is a more blessed thing to give, rather than to receive.” Acts 20:35.

In St. Paul’s teachings it was not necessary for him to say “and Jesus said…” every time he taught and conveyed the Word of God - remember, his audience would have known from whom the Word flowed. When St. Paul taught that homosexuality is wrong, I accept that the teaching flowed from the Trinitarian God - the God he knew as a Jew and Christian, from Jesus, and from the Holy Spirit’s guidance.
 
CPB. Just one question - What makes you certain God wants you to stay where you are in your life. I always thought we are to grow toward perfection as we journey toward him, doing his will not ours.
 
Interesting question…

First the Church does not teach homosexuality is a sin…the act is. Why does God allow someone who has a disease to continue being sick or someone who has emotional troubles suffer so? Our weakness often brings us to God. When you look at the great Saints most of them suffered greatly for the Lord. God sometimes might what Satin has meant for our harm to be his Glory. Someone who has been hurt, lets say someone who has been raped….horrible crime. Did God know the person was going to do it? Why did he let her suffer? God never promised to stop suffering we can however take our sorrows and give it to God. Someone who has suffered will have a greater chance of being compassionate and mindful of God’s love. My sexuality does not limit me from growing ever closer to God or closer to imitating Christ. What actions I take does limit me. How can we judge Gay men when most straight men look at women the wrong way? How can we judge Gay men when most of us gossip, complain or grumble…all are sins in God’s eyes and keep us from the fullness of who we were created to be? I am not making excuses I just see sin for what it is…which is a separation from the Triune God. Maybe protesting against Gay people isn’t God word. Are we all certain that what we feel or desire is God’s will. The Church is perfect…but we the people, including its ministers are not perfect. Each of us is flawed filled with much prejudice and hatred. Pray instead for love and God’s will in our hearts. When you seek Christ in all facets of our life we will grow closer to perfection…and even a gay man can be a loving and faithful servant or at least try as best we can.
 
Certainly yours is a trial and you are called to chastity. It seems to me you are chaste. I applaud you and your suffering may truly bring you closer to God than my own physical suffering.
 
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CPB:
Someone who has been hurt, lets say someone who has been raped….horrible crime. Did God know the person was going to do it? Why did he let her suffer? God never promised to stop suffering we can however take our sorrows and give it to God. Someone who has suffered will have a greater chance of being compassionate and mindful of God’s love.
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Point well taken. There is much to be obtained from suffering. This very may well be the cross He has chosen for you to bear, so bear it well.
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CPB:
My sexuality does not limit me from growing ever closer to God or closer to imitating Christ. What actions I take does limit me. How can we judge Gay men when most straight men look at women the wrong way? How can we judge Gay men when most of us gossip, complain or grumble…all are sins in God’s eyes and keep us from the fullness of who we were created to be? I am not making excuses I just see sin for what it is…which is a separation from the Triune God.
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You see the difference, and that is good. No, it is not sinful to feel a constant pull in a direction away from God - the Lord knows we all have our vices. The difference is acting upon it. One also should not preach that homosexuality is okay.
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CPB:
Pray instead for love and God’s will in our hearts. When you seek Christ in all facets of our life we will grow closer to perfection…and even a gay man can be a loving and faithful servant or at least try as best we can.
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Within the confines described above, this is true. Your growth, in your current state, can only be facilitated by not acting on your impulses to sin. If that means celibacy, then that may be your path.

I recommend that you seek a spiritual director to help you on your path. May God bless your efforts!
 
Jesus Christ didn’t mention Mirror Worshipping either in the Bible, but that doesn’t mean it is wrong.

He didn’t mention lots of things in the Bible, that doesn’t mean that they were not important. Besides, not everything is in the Bible, so this claim is also an assumption of Sola Scriptura.
 
CPB - one more thing. The “gay” agenda is responsible for a lot of what you are feeling. This agenda is trying to force its way into accepting the sin. I believe this is the why the anger.

I do not want my children being indoctrinated that the sin is acceptable. We are constantly bombarded with that message.
 
Dear Barrister, I have a question…you seem to be very kind and I thank you but why is it when people bring up homosexuality we need therapy and direction but we don’t say that to those remarried people…or those suffering from gluttony or those who look at woman (or men) in the wrong way…this could simply be watching a movie and thinking about them physiaclly. I understand all to well my sin but why do I need direction and everyone else doesn’t. Why is President Reagan being hailed such a great man when he was living according to Christian doctrine in adultery. I don’t doubt he’s in heaven…or at least Purgatroy. I’m not making excuses…I am however tired of people judging me and telling what I should do. There seems to be much sin in all our lives why do we pick and choose what we feel is worse…when all sins mentioned above are things the New Testiment says will keep us from the Kingdom of God.
 
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