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Zoot
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Lisa N:
According to the John Jay report, the victims are 80.9% male, and 19.1% female.
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Lisa4Catholics
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Lisa4Catholics
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Just a clarification needed are you trying to say all priests are homosexuals?I do not thing all homosexuals are pedifiles either, nor do I think homosexual acts are normal or natural, but I can’t understand what the priest comment is about. Oh, by the way marriage is God’s institution and sacrament, so goverments need to leave it alone.God Bless
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Lisa_N
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Yes but that ignores reality that the straight percentages do NOT tell the story nor do they explain why the Church is paying out millions of dollars because of homosexual priests. I also believe that the female victims were more evenly represented over the lengthy time period that dates back over half a century. If a priest were to be caught in a sexual encounter in the 1950s, chances are it was with a female.
However based on every book, article, interview I’ve encountered, the problem with the predatory male homosexuals was not only more egregious but more concentrated as to time period as well as number of encounters. A priest who has/had an affair or wanted to engage in a heterosexual relationship would leave the priesthood. Priests who wished to engage in homosexual relationships could remain and have “the best of both worlds” so to speak.
One more time, the problem is overwhelmingly based on the egregious behavior of homosexual priests.
Lisa N
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AmyS
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If it doesn’t effect you than why do you feel the need to fight for it to change?
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jlw
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Ah, justice in a God-without-consequences kinda world. That’s why.If it doesn’t effect you than why do you feel the need to fight for it to change?
Mac6yver has been gone for several hours I think. Hopefully he will return. I would like to learn more about his thinking on this.
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AmyS
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They say about 1 million people are trying to leave the US and move to Canada (hopefully they are all from California)… I also heard the 1 million Canadians are trying to come to the US… Now we have more of a chance of getting the Canadians here then our people getting to move up there… Canada has many more issues when it comes to citizenship.Ah, justice in a God-without-consequences kinda world. That’s why.
Mac6yver has been gone for several hours I think. Hopefully he will return. I would like to learn more about his thinking on this.
Mac6yver, is probably contemplating his answer. It should be a good one.
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Mac6yver
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Because I know how I would feel if people were trying to enforce their personal moral beliefs on me. I am not black either, but I will stand up for their rights.If it doesn’t effect you than why do you feel the need to fight for it to change?
On a side note, I leave this thread for a while and it has turned into a math test…:ehh:
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F.S.Casey
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This is common sense of course for someone who does not believe in Jesus Christ. However, If you believe in Jesus Christ then you DO know what He wants because we have the sciptures to tell us. We believe that those who walked with Him knew Him pretty well. Being that I did not walk, talk, eat and live with Him on earth, I figure that those who did would know better than me. Therefore, it would make sense to follow the instructions that Jesus gave us and those of His followers. If you do not believe in Jesus or the bible, then good luck with your guessing. Do you usually do well in Vegas? Do you try to bet on the best odds or follow the long shots? Whatever your path - Go with God my friend.
F.S. Casey
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jlw
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What were we going to do until your return???Can you respond to my last post to you?? Very interested in your thoughts…
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khkhk
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This doesn’t suprise me…I saw Pam Stenzel last Sunday (Dec. 5th), and she said that the only 2 countries that she has been to that don’t allow her, or anyone else to say “God” in public schools is the U.S. and Canada…:banghead:
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swampfox
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This madness is the result when a Constitution is unhinged from a basis in Natural Law.
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Zoot
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The Constitution never was hinged to Natural Law.
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Zoot
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Lisa N:
The individual abusive priest is not being sued. The diocese that ignored, abetted, enabled, and coddled him is being sued for its ignoring, abetting, enabling, and coddling.
Without the incompetent behavior of the bishops and the bishops’ staffs, and the silence of the rest of the priests, the payout would be far less since the grounds for suing the diocese would be far less.
Straight priests have a choice of staying in the priesthood and playing around, or leaving the priesthood and playing around.
Gay priests have a choice of staying in the priesthood and playing around, or leaving the priesthood and playing around.
Few straight priests ever left the priesthood to marry the minor girls they abused.
The overwhelming share of money paid out by the Church is due to management negligence. Very little would be paid out if management had jumped on the problem immediately and stopped it.
The individual abusive priest is not being sued. The diocese that ignored, abetted, enabled, and coddled him is being sued for its ignoring, abetting, enabling, and coddling.
Without the incompetent behavior of the bishops and the bishops’ staffs, and the silence of the rest of the priests, the payout would be far less since the grounds for suing the diocese would be far less.
Straight priests have a choice of staying in the priesthood and playing around, or leaving the priesthood and playing around.
Gay priests have a choice of staying in the priesthood and playing around, or leaving the priesthood and playing around.
Few straight priests ever left the priesthood to marry the minor girls they abused.
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Mac6yver
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jlw said:
Can you respond to my last post to you?? Very interested in your thoughts…
I am sorry, could you repeat the question?
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Lisa_N
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You seem to have a real problem with the Bishops. What’s that about? Saying it’s their fault is like saying is Jackie Peterson’s fault her son killed Laci and Connor. I guess she should have raised him better or watched him closer right? The predatory priests are responsible for their own behavior. They were after all, adults and capable of taking responsibility for their actions.
As to your comments that the priests are not being sued, well DUH? They have NO MONEY. There is something to that vow of poverty they were able to keep easier than that oh so difficult chastity thing. I assure you lawyers only sue parties that have MONEY. You know it’s like the crook who was asked why he robbed banks; his reply, well that’s where the money is! Attorneys could look at the assets of a large Archdiocese and salivate. Looking at a pathetic elderly indigent pervert hardly inspires the same level of energy from a lawyer.
As to your comments regarding staying or going, a priest who left for a heterosexual relationship, or marriage could function openly in society. The same could not be said for homosexuals in the 1970s. They could play around in dark corners and rent some grungy hotel room by the hour. How much nicer to stay in the “happy hunting ground” where every year a new crop was turned over to their ‘care.’ Not to mention the plush surroundings and pretty clothes they got to wear! Not a hard choice is it?
Any real NUMBERS on males/females? Giving a percentage tells us little other than one more time IT IS A HOMOSEXUAL PROBLEM.
Lisa N
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Digitonomy
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Lisa N:
Small clarification here: I believe most of the priests in question were diocesan priests, and so did not take a vow of poverty.
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Zoot
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Lisa N:
Your analogy would be better if a parent continually watched their 12-year-old kid molest the neighborhood 5-year-olds. Then they just moved to another neighborhood so he could do it again. then they moved him to a different school so he could do it again. then they lied about what they did…
The fact that dioceses are paying is because the bishops are being found to be at fault. You can’t just pick someone and get money in court. The bishops actions injured kids. Now they pay. The non-molesting priests kept quiet. Now they pay. The knowledgable laity kept quiet. Now they pay. And now, and only now, they Church is acting. Money talks in spiritual corridors; it looks like it is the only thing that gets their attention. Good.
The John Jay report does give numbers on males and females. I will provide them later today.
I often wonder why any man would want to prance around in those plush surroundings and pretty clothes. Do you know why?
Of course I have a problem with the bishops. They were incompetent and allowed a problem to continue under their eyes. Any competent organization would have canned all of them. The priests molested; that was bad. The bishops covered up, enabled, and abetted; that’s bad.
Your analogy would be better if a parent continually watched their 12-year-old kid molest the neighborhood 5-year-olds. Then they just moved to another neighborhood so he could do it again. then they moved him to a different school so he could do it again. then they lied about what they did…
The fact that dioceses are paying is because the bishops are being found to be at fault. You can’t just pick someone and get money in court. The bishops actions injured kids. Now they pay. The non-molesting priests kept quiet. Now they pay. The knowledgable laity kept quiet. Now they pay. And now, and only now, they Church is acting. Money talks in spiritual corridors; it looks like it is the only thing that gets their attention. Good.
The John Jay report does give numbers on males and females. I will provide them later today.
I often wonder why any man would want to prance around in those plush surroundings and pretty clothes. Do you know why?
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Lisa_N
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Well Zoot, there are NO angels in this particular play but I think the priests who did the abusing were primarily at fault. I don’t think it takes a village…er parish to molest a child.
In all fairness, it was a different time and people then did NOT understand or comprehend that there were predatory homosexuals who would engage in such despicable acts. I have read numerous books on this subject and repeatedly the young men who made these accusations were either told THEY were lying or that they misunderstood what Father was doing. We were VERY naive at the time. Homosexuality was considered a disorder, a perversion and it was in the closet. Normal people did not engage in this behavior and it was INCOMPREHENSIBLE that of all people, priests would be the predators. Hindsight is 20-20.
If we knew then what we know now.
Further, many of these priests were treated by psychologists or psychiatrists and were pronounced “cured.” People didn’t understand the kind of grip this obsession had on its victims. While certainly the bishops had some culpability, like many “executives” they depended on professionals’ advice.
Further, it’s gotten to the point where lawyers are trolling for victims. My hairdresser was an altar boy where there were some accusations of abuse. He was solicited NUMEROUS times, asked if he’d been abused, pushed to become part of a lawsuit. It’s become like those class action suits on drugs, even people who were not abused may be looking for a chance to make a buck.
As to my analogy, yours doesn’t work either. There is a difference between a 12 year old child and an adult. A minor child is not held accountable for his actions but an adult is responsible.
It would be rather difficult to claim that priest didn’t know that these actions were wrong.
Lisa N
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Lisa_N
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Thanks for the clarification. However it does not counter the point that lawyers “follow the money” and I suspect the average diocese has a few more bucks than an individual priest.
Lisa N
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