The Madness Continues--Canada Loses Its Bearings

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Mac6yver:
I do not think you are understanding what i am trying to say. I am not trying compare the entire civil rights movement to same sex marriage. I am simply stating that there are some similarities. For instance, the fact that it was aginst the law for an interacial couple to marry. Heck, it was only recently it was finally legalized in all 50 states.
Is there a difference is BEING black, and BEING a homosexual??

Of course there is.

A black man has sexual thoughts. He has, let’s say, Homosexual thoughts, ok?? But ONLY thoughts.

Now, he wakes up in the morning, looks in the mirror, he’s black.

But he’s not ACTING OUT and verifying or “participating” in his “blackness”, is he??

He just IS black.

But he’s not having or participating in homosexual sex. Thoughts are just thoughts, actions are actions. Sex is not a state of being. It’s an ACTION.

Who is he if he is or isn’t having or ACTING in hetero OR homo sexual relations??

A man. A black man. Can’t change that.
 
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Brad:
You used an extreme example to try to present the idea in our heads that the preposterous notion that there are so many homosexual priests that they could overcome the fact that they are responsible for 81% or more of the abuse cases and that heterosexual priests might actually abuse at a higher rate. Utterly ridiculous. This also ignores the overwhelming evidence that homosexual activity is largely indicative of promiscuity. It also assumes to an extent the unscientific notion that people are born homosexual. You are good with numbers but reality takes much more than numbers - it takes common sense too.

To show how common sense saves some aggravation and unnecessary complexity, let’s look at a few numbers:

Let’s say there are 10,000 priests and 200 individual abuse cases.

81% are male or 162 cases.

19% are female or 38 cases.

In order for the homosexual priest abuse rate to be LESS than the heterosexual abuse rate, approximately 8,000 of the 10,0000 priests would have to be homosexual.

In other words, the priest population would have to be 80% homosexual. Now, considering that the extremely high estimate of homosexuals in the general population is 10%, even granting that it may be slightly higher in the priest population, 8 TIMES HIGHER is too much for any rational person, scientist or otherwise, to take seriously.

I’ve played the numbers game. Thank you. You have helped to prove the point. Homosexuals are more prone to child abuse than heterosexuals.
OK. So, what percentage of all Catholic priests are gay?
 
Lisa N:
Some similarities sure. There are some similarities when anyone is thought to be discriminated against. But to equate the struggle for physical safety, for basic human needs with a couple of gays who want to share medical benefits cheapens the civil rights movement.
EXACTLY. If I were black, I would be livid at the gay rights movement comparing the two.
 
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Brad:
Hey - I could care less about the money. Let’s get a true orthodox priest with a Bible and the right substance to consecrate hosts into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ and we’ll build a shack to have mass. Give all the money to the offended girls (probably women now).

Of course, the world would suffer tremendously as a reult as less care may be granted to the sick and the poor.

But that will only be temporary. If it means getting rid of all the abusers and all the homosexuals and all the homosexual sympathesizers and all the dissenters and feminists that make up their own gospel and declare it Jesus’ gospel - I’m all for it - give them every dime.

Let’s stop playing all the games - no abuse, no dissent, and no saying homosexual acts are ok. How about it?
Some people care about the money; some don’t. You don’t. LisaN does.

Just keep dropping it in the basket on Sundays. On Mondays it goes to the lawyers and plaintiffs.
 
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Brad:
By the way, the female abuse rate over time is far lower than exists in most other churches, schools, and all other institutions that connect adults with children.
OK. What is the female abuse rate in the schools and churches? What is the rate of minor abuse in these institutions?

It’s interesting that the John Jay report says there is very poor information in this area.
 
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Mac6yver:
I do not think you are understanding what i am trying to say. I am not trying compare the entire civil rights movement to same sex marriage. I am simply stating that there are some similarities. For instance, the fact that it was aginst the law for an interacial couple to marry. Heck, it was only recently it was finally legalized in all 50 states.
So does this mean that every discriminatory law is bad? For example, is a law that says girls cannot be boy scouts or boys cannot be girl scouts bad? Is a law that says someone cannot marry his horse bad?
 
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Brad:
Yes - to avoid you.
So, we have thousands of men in plush surroundings and pretty clothes because of me? What power!

Does anyone else know why priests like plush surroundings and pretty clothes. LisaN seems to think it is important, and Brad thinks they do it to avoid me.
 
Lisa N:
Absolutely. We seem to have a continuing parade of men working with youth who molest, harass, or have sexual encounters with young women. While the female teacher/male student encounters make national news, in every locale there are male teachers, coaches, club leaders, who are charged with sexual abuse of females.

Lisa N
Well, rates are quantitative things. What are the rates?
 
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jlw:
Is there a difference is BEING black, and BEING a homosexual??

Of course there is.

A black man has sexual thoughts. He has, let’s say, Homosexual thoughts, ok?? But ONLY thoughts.

Now, he wakes up in the morning, looks in the mirror, he’s black.

But he’s not ACTING OUT and verifying or “participating” in his “blackness”, is he??

He just IS black.

But he’s not having or participating in homosexual sex. Thoughts are just thoughts, actions are actions. Sex is not a state of being. It’s an ACTION.

Who is he if he is or isn’t having or ACTING in hetero OR homo sexual relations??

A man. A black man. Can’t change that.
 
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Mac6yver:
Well, I would certainly not use the word inconsequential. Just because I do not believe he takes an active role in our world at the moment, that does not make God inconsequential.

I came to this conclusion through a long process of events and experiences. Let me try to put it this way. You know how when someone wins an award or has good fortune fall on them, they often seem to thank God for that. However, when something bad happens you rarely hear the same people blame God. You see, I give God credit for neither, I do not blame him for things that go wrong in my life, but I do not give him credit for the good either. We are in charge of our own fate as a world imo.
I look at it this way - there is nothing to blame God for. All things work for good. This doesn’t make sense in a worldview where your soul only exists as long as your are physically on earth. However, with the understanding that our soul lives for eternity, it makes a great deal of sense. Our time on this earth is pathetically miniscule next to the time we live in eternity. Why blame God when we can see that our temporary sufferings on earth can do great good for our eternal well-being - good that can give us eternal bliss? It’s all good. Thank God.
 
Lisa N:
Recent? How old are you Mac6yver? Surely you don’t remember a time when interracial marriage was illegal.

Some similarities sure. There are some similarities when anyone is thought to be discriminated against. But to equate the struggle for physical safety, for basic human needs with a couple of gays who want to share medical benefits cheapens the civil rights movement. People DIED for this cause and certainly many died as a result of the indirect results of prejudice.

No homosexual is going to DIE if he/she can’t dress up and prance down the aisle. To compare these two utterly sickens me and it certainly alienates many blacks.

Lisa N
Forgive my memory, but until the late 90’s interracial marriage was still illegal in one souther state, of which I forget.

Aside from that, are you saying their are levels of discrimination that are acceptable? That just because no one dies it is ok to allow that discrimination?
 
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jlw:
Is there a difference is BEING black, and BEING a homosexual??

Of course there is.

A black man has sexual thoughts. He has, let’s say, Homosexual thoughts, ok?? But ONLY thoughts.

Now, he wakes up in the morning, looks in the mirror, he’s black.

But he’s not ACTING OUT and verifying or “participating” in his “blackness”, is he??

He just IS black.

But he’s not having or participating in homosexual sex. Thoughts are just thoughts, actions are actions. Sex is not a state of being. It’s an ACTION.

Who is he if he is or isn’t having or ACTING in hetero OR homo sexual relations??

A man. A black man. Can’t change that.
So, if they discovered a “Gay Gene” tomorrow you would allow gay marriage?
 
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Brad:
So does this mean that every discriminatory law is bad? For example, is a law that says girls cannot be boy scouts or boys cannot be girl scouts bad? Is a law that says someone cannot marry his horse bad?
As far as I know there is no law regarding boy scouts or girl scouts. However, lets go with the horse. Can the horse consent to marry his owner? Can a horse make a sentient decision? No, the horse can not. Comparing animals to humans will not go very far. Even if you used a man who wishes to marry a child, the child can not legally consent.
 
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Zoot:
Those numbers are antecdotal. Is there any better data?
Not in my research (this was when the story was an everyday headline). I saw numbers from anti-gay researchers say 30%, and pro-gay researchers say a lttle over 50%. And then estimates in between.

So, being reasonable, I’d stick with the estimates in between. 40%.
 
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Zoot:
OK. So, what percentage of all Catholic priests are gay?
Much less than you think. The vow of celibacy is real, strong, and a powerful unitying of self to God. I see this in the priests that truly know Jesus Christ. They are strong men and they are not homosexual.

Because some homosexuals thought it a good idea to hang out in the priesthood and then prey on seminaries looking for converts doesn’t negate the fact that over history there has been innumerable men of the strongest moral character imaginable become priests and lead families to God.

Surely the number has spiked between the 50s and 90s and we can see it’s result in scandal and dissent (when future priests enter the seminary with sinister motives they certainly aren’t planning on upholding the truths of the faith), but the spike is just that - a spike - not a takeover.

Many of these homosexuals have had great power because of what they knew - many still have it - and they are protected by the shield of our depraved culture that holds debauchery in high esteem. Therefore, the perception of their sheer numbers goes way up - but, in reality, they are on their way out - they are coughing and gasping and shouting in their last grand hurrah.

The Church will suffer more for those that remain but the Church is much larger and much stronger than anything they can throw at it.
 
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Zoot:
Some people care about the money; some don’t. You don’t. LisaN does.

Just keep dropping it in the basket on Sundays. On Mondays it goes to the lawyers and plaintiffs.
Mine is directly proportional to the level of truth I get on a weekly basis. In other words, it is an extremely small portion of my tything. I do give some to support my fellow parish Catholics.
 
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Zoot:
OK. What is the female abuse rate in the schools and churches? What is the rate of minor abuse in these institutions?

It’s interesting that the John Jay report says there is very poor information in this area.
Yes. Perhaps John Jay should study the public school abuse. Or might this be too utterly shocking for the public to handle?
 
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Mac6yver:
Forgive my memory, but until the late 90’s interracial marriage was still illegal in one souther state, of which I forget.

Aside from that, are you saying their are levels of discrimination that are acceptable? That just because no one dies it is ok to allow that discrimination?
Of COURSE some discrimination is acceptable. Good grief do you want six year olds driving SUVs? Do you want an untrained uneducated individual doing bypass surgery on your mother? Do you want violent felons to be able to buy guns? Do you want a man who’s never flown a plane to be in charge of a 747?

Sometimes discrimination promotes a good and sometimes it promotes an evil. That is the decision that needs to be made. The civil rights movement fought an evil in our society because denying people basic human rights by virtue of skin pigmentation (race being an artificially manufactured label) is evil.

Lisa N
 
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