The Missing Passover

[rinnie]

Oh My. Ben, Looks like you lose again. Don’t surprise me none. ITs just history repeating itself! Oh lighten up Ben, you should know that if you play with fire you are going to get your fingers burned! Hopefully someday you will get your eyes opened to the truth. JESUS CHRIST IS GOD!

 

[qui_est_ce]

What is this supposed to mean, that he was not Jewish? I always thought we have been talking about two different people.

He came to fulfill the Law. He did a lot of things Jewish people wouldn’t dare to do, because He was showing them how to live in the New Covenant. Your claim that no Jew would ever do such and such has no basis. Paul was a Pharisee. He claimed Jesus’ divinity.

 

[qui_est_ce]

If by credible you mean, because they were prostestant sites you wont read it , I’m afraid you wont find the answer you are looking for.
The Bible teaches two sabbaths that week, so you don’t even need to look anywhere else anyway.

I don’t have a problem with Protestant sites. I don’t like to read off-the wall new-fanged man-made doctrines like the rapture, which has only been around the last 100 years or so. Rapturists disagee if it is premillenial, postmillenial, millenial. Jesus called us to be one. The word Rapture is not found in the Bible. It is unbiblical.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Of
Mark 15:33 – 34 tells us the time the Lamb of God death, which was twilight, the same time Moses was instructed to slaughter the sacrificial lamb.

Christ came to fulfill the law, and it was fulfilled with the new covenant. A covenant of God and men, that requires participation of those being set free.

(I copied and pasted this from material I had prepared for a debate I participated in with a Protestant. Christ clearly did not miss the Passover, Christ fulfilled the passover.)

Are you Scott Hahn?

Okay, everything you say is true, but you haven’t answered the question. If Jesus celebrated the Passover meal on Thursday, why were th sacrifcial lambs being slaughtered on Friday? Why was Friday the Preparation day?

 

[Lapell]

If Jesus celebrated the Passover meal on Thursday, why were th sacrifcial lambs being slaughtered on Friday? Why was Friday the Preparation day?

“Preparation day” was “the day when they prepare” for the day after, which is Sabbath, qui est-ce, not the first day of Passover. Every time they mention the Preparation Day in the Gospels, it means the day right before Sabbath.

 

[Lapell]

What is this supposed to mean, that he was not Jewish? I always thought we have been talking about two different people.

Where in what she said indicated that he was not Jewish, Ben? Sure, he was not a Levite. Which is slightly different…

 

[Lapell]

Well, you are correct- it’s certainly in there, but I wasn’t taught that the Last Supper
had anything to do with Passover.

How do you know that it was the 13th day of Nissan? Where is that written?

The question is worth it, since in Luke it is said that Jesus and his disciples celebrated the First Day of the Passover. So do the accounts by Matthew and Mark…

 

[Lapell]

TracyJ;5097089:

Well, you are correct- it’s certainly in there, but I wasn’t taught that the Last Supper
had anything to do with Passover.

In my life as a Jew. In my culture. In more than 4,000 years
that we celebrate the Passover Supper on the 14th of Nisan. And in that year 30 CE, it fell on Friday evening. If Luke was telling the truth Jesus celebrated in the 13th of Nisan, which was Thursday.

Since when the First Day of Passover, or of the “pains azymes” (French), is on the 13th of Nissan, Ben?

 

[Lapell]

**Never mind this Father Mitch Paqua. Stick to the NT. Go back to Luke 22:7-20. Jesus celebrated before or Luke is lying.

We, regular Jews, celebrate our festivals according to the Lunar calendar, which is shorter than the solar calendar. That’s why we have to add an extra month called Adar at the end of the year. There is no other kind of calendar. If the Essenes used the Solar calendar, it had to be always after and never before, due to the fact that the Solar calendar is longer.
So, the theory of your Father Mitch Paqua has gone to the birds.

Ben: **

No, YOU are the one fabricating some tale, Ben! Taking advantage of the fact that we are not Jews ourselves to say a half-truth and a complete lie! Say, are you a Communist Jew? Trying to destroy the faith of other people is not a Jewish thing at all, son of Massada!!! I am afraid you are working for the Other Side rather than for the Master of the Universe, sir. You said once that you are not a scholar. Therefore, there is no reason why we should consider you as an authoritative source. Jesus did not celebrate Passover before the beginning of Passover, and Luke, though a Gentile, did not lie. It’s not a case of “either…or” here!

 

[Lapell]

And does it mean that the heaven and earth passed away?
Read verse 18 of Matthew 5. You must be kidding!

(Lapell) —He accomplished what was needed to redeem the world. And to truly save whoever repents from his/her sins to turn to Him and turn away from his/her sinful habits. You can’t have a just idea about this, since you only believe the appearances (looks) of things.

**And Paul was an observant Jew! Tell me, how can an observant Jew teach the Jews to abandon Moses, to stop circumcising their children, and to denounce the Jewish customs? (Acts 21:21) Is that your opinion of an observant Jew?**Where did he say all this, Ben? Yes, this is what he was accused by other Jews of saying, but what Paul said actually was much different, really!!!

Ben:

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Are you Scott Hahn?

Okay, everything you say is true, but you haven’t answered the question. If Jesus celebrated the Passover meal on Thursday, why were th sacrifcial lambs being slaughtered on Friday? Why was Friday the Preparation day?

No, I am not Scott Hahn… That was a debate I was challenged too, on a Protestant forum, where I am the only Catholic.

Friday started at sunset Thursday according to Jewish interpretation. I realize this only brings us to the day of preparation, but it also brings us to the day the Lamb of God was “slaughtered”. How could Christ have celebrated the Passover ahead of schedule?..

With Christ knowing His hour was to come, He also knew the timeframe things would take place.

Joh 13:1 Before the festival day of the pasch, Jesus knowing that his hour was come, that he should pass out of this world to the Father: having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Knowing the timeframe, Christ still had a desire to eat the Pasch with them.

Luk 22:15 And he said to them: With desire I have desired to eat this pasch with you, before I suffer.

So, things happened according to His desire, or “will”.

Even though it was a new covenant, fulfilling the prophesy of Jeremiah 31:31, it was unlike the covenant with their fathers. Even though it was unlike, it was of the same typological sense.

The prophesy of Jeremiah 31:31 is quoted, word for word, in Hebrews 8:8 - 12, but I suggest reading the larger passage of Hebrews 8:6 - 13.

**Heb 8:6 But now he hath obtained a better ministry, by how much also he is a mediator of a better testament which is established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that former had been faultless, there should not indeed a place have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 For, finding fault with them, he saith: Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord: and I will perfect, unto the house of Israel and unto the house of Juda, a new testament:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the testament which I made to their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt: because they continued not in my testament: and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the testament which I will make to the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my laws into their mind: and in their heart will I write them. And I will be their God: and they shall be my people.
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying: Know the Lord. For all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them.
Heb 8:12 Because I will be merciful to their iniquities: and their sins I will remember no more.
Heb 8:13 Now in saying a new, he hath made the former old. And that which decayeth and groweth old is near its end. **

Personally, I believe we received a “better” passover, than with the old covenant, which decayeth…

 

[qui_est_ce]

Friday started at sunset Thursday according to Jewish interpretation. I realize this only brings us to the day of preparation, but it also brings us to the day the Lamb of God was “slaughtered”. How could Christ have celebrated the Passover ahead of schedule?..

So he celebrated Passover on the 13 day of Nissan, Thursday. I realize this is a theory, but it makes sense. l wonder what the practice of the early Christians was. I’ll check it out later.

 

[LilyM]

No, I do not celebrate easter.
I will be in heaven, because the Lord Jesus Christ died to save me.
I would rather all yours and everyone elses praise and worship was directed to him.
We are nowhere told in Scripture to celebrate his birth every year and the only mention of easter is herod celebrated it.
He is Risen.

No way. All the Apostles, including Mary Magdalene, rejoiced on the day He rose - which is Easter - and certainly celebrated on that day in a way that they didn’t repeat on the following days! He celebrated with them, on that day. He broke bread with the disciples on the road to Emmaus to reveal and celebrate this great event with them. He ate with the Apostles in the upper room, again, surely, to celebrate with them.

How is celebrating His resurrection at Easter (not that we don’t on other days as well) NOT directing praise and worship to Him - for this miraculous and wonderful event that saves us? Who on earth else do you think we DO direct our praise and worship to on Easter Day if not Him?

As I’ve said, you celebrate the Sabbath. You DO celebrate His death and resurrection, in a special way, on that one particular day of the week. Why? Why distinguish that one day out of the whole week? Because He commanded it? So you accept that we ARE to treat certain days of the year as special, by His command, no? Celebrate and worship in a unique way on those particular days?

So why not the one day of the year which is the anniversary of THE most significant event in human history - Easter? You’ve got a major case of doublethink going on there.

 

[rinnie]

No, I do not celebrate easter.
I will be in heaven, because the Lord Jesus Christ died to save me.
I would rather all yours and everyone elses praise and worship was directed to him.
We are nowhere told in Scripture to celebrate his birth every year and the only mention of easter is herod celebrated it.
He is Risen.

We remember, we celebrate, we Believe.

Is there somewhere in the scripture that say’s we should not celebrate? Just because there isn’t scripture to say we should does not mean we can’t. Why would we not want to remember and celebrate Christmas, the Day the Lord was born. Or Easter the day he rose again. Do you not agree this is a time to remember and take time to rejoice.

Actually there may be scripture to tell us to rejoice and be glad. I just gotta find it. But won’t have a chance until later.

Actually isn’t there scripture that say’s this is the day the Lord has made let us rejoice and be glad. Again gotta check it out. Think it goes something like that.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Actually there may be scripture to tell us to rejoice and be glad. I just gotta find it. But won’t have a chance until later.

Actually isn’t there scripture that say’s this is the day the Lord has made let us rejoice and be glad. Again gotta check it out. Think it goes something like that.

Psalm 118

This is the the day that Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad!!

 

[swariffin]

**The NT says that Jesus was a Rabbi. If he was not married, the NT is lying. I am Jewish and we are talking about Jewish people and Jewish customs. Gentiles cannot tell us anything about Judaism because they do not know. **

Did the Jewish leaders acknowledge Jesus as a Rabbi? Forget the NT. It is written by Jesus followers.

 

[swariffin]

**You are mistaken my friend. I understand you because you are speaking as a Gentile. Jews would not write against Judaism. Those gospels were written by Gentiles disciples of Paul. None of the writings of the Apostles and Nazarenes
was approved into the Canon of the NT by the Fathers of the Church, in the Fourth Century, due to their controversial character vis-a-vis the writings of Paul.

Ben: **

Wrong, Ben. Matthew and John were Jews and they were the followers of Jesus (whom you and a roman attorney called as the sect of Nazarene). Their writings called the gospel of Matthew and John, and are the foundation of Christianity. If you said a Judaism Jews never wrote things like the gospel of Matthew and John, I agree with you. But, a Jew can write anything he/she wants, especially when they became the follower of Jesus.

 

[swariffin]

**I can prove to you that you are the one day dreaming. First of all, the Nazarenes were never called Christians outside of Judea. They would turn into Christians because it was Paul’s custom to overturn the Nazarene synagogues into Christian churches. He was never able to build a church from scratch; I mean from Gentiles. He would have to turn the converts of the Nazarenes into Gentiles, and then Christians. And then, if you read Acts 15:5, you will see that Pharisees, due to their intellectual capacity, were members of the Nazarene Councils.

Ben: **

Wrong again Ben, The Sect of Nazarene was what the Roman prosecutor called the Follower of Jesus. Within Judea, the follower of Jesus were called the Sect of Nazarene. Outside Judea where the power of Kayafas and the gang was meaningless, the follower of Jesus were called Christians. There was a possibility that the Pharisee became the follower of Jesus. One of whom was Nicodemus. Once a Pharisee became the follower of Jesus, he did not belong to Kayafas and the gang anymore.

 

[swariffin]

**Read the thread about “The Wedding of Jesus.” They are there.

Ben: **

I did not see that. You can bring it up again if it is really your proof.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I thought this was a Passover discussion.

Where’s the OP’s responses to the points I’ve brought up?