The new Coronovirus, Covid-19 and its spread globally

  • Thread starter Thread starter OurLadyofSorrows
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I am not interested in defending particular politicians. I do think that there are many ways to die. We can die of the virus, directly, through its spread, we can die of hunger, isolated in homes (unless structures are put into place to ensure that families recieve a base caloric load -and the ability to put such structures into place will vary greatly from country to country and from locale to locale), we can die during bread riots which get out of hand, or from political instability generated by economic uncertainties,- and that is a starter list.
Finding a way to address the challenges posed by this virus is going to involve healthcare; it is also going to involve a plan for maintaining political and economic stability. Keeping the economy reasonably health could save the lives of many.
We might consider shifting some aspects of production into delivery of health care products, thinking about maintaining agriculture in a situation in which borders are closed and the seasonal migration of agricultural labor is hampered, if not curtailed, perhaps infrastructure projects.
The sooner we can test to see who has been exposed and has some degree of immunity, the sooner we can work to provide additional labor imputs, both to healthcare and to other sectors of the economy. We are going to need to find a way to both protect to the best of our ability the elderly and infirm, and those who, through their labor, will help provide economic and political stability, and the tax dollars which support the delivery of all many services which are helping promote this stability. All of these are factors affecting life-it’s not a lives versus economics situation; it’s much more complicated than that.
 
Last edited:
Very good news! Let’s hope the FDA gets out of the way and doesn’t let perfection and blind objective adherance to regulation and red tape stop this from potentially saving lives.
 
Freddy said:
But I am seriously concerned about the delays in the US about getting anywhere near the level of control you need to get on top of this. I actually think you’ve left it too late and your deaths will be north of 250,000.

I can see a position where places like NZ and Australia will drop to a few isolated cases while it rages in places like the UK and the US. We’ll simply isolate from the rest of the world until the vaccine is ready. Nobody comes in. Nobody goes out.
Click to expand...
Much of the US is doing well, NY and NJ are the exceptions.

It will rise again in waves 2 & 3 … all across the world. Controlling the first wave doesn’t mean NZ and Australia are any safer in the future. We’ll all be playing ‘wack a mole’ starting by June.
 
Last edited:
Covid-19 Pay Cuts

Beware of large companies claiming there’s some fait accompli need for employees to take a pay cut.

I’m not taking a pay cut so that the people asking me to do so can keep their business-class air tickets, expensive hotel suites and self-indulgent rental car convenience.

If your employer presses you to accept a pay cut, it’s not unreasonable to say…“you first”.
Show me the company Profit and Loss report evidence that net profit after tax is approaching the red ink level.

You show me your EBITDA and I’ll show you mine. I can’t take a pay cut because my household operating expenses aren’t decreasing.

Corporations can learn to live with a Covid-19 not_for_profit caring and sharing mentality for a little while. After all, the rest of us know what it’s like when earnings barely cover expenses.

Remember - these are the corporations that preach to us about ‘woke’ social values - love, tolerance, gender theory, reproductive rights (aka abortion) Let’s make them practice what they preach and put people before profits. Catholic charities and NGO’s operate using a not-for-profit model. Business can do the same and keep people employed.
 
Last edited:
JoeFreedom said:
Let’s hope the FDA gets out of the way and doesn’t let perfection and blind objective adherance to regulation and red tape stop this from potentially saving lives.
Click to expand...
Before we get too anxious to push the FDA out of the way, let’s not forget the genesis of that “perfection and blind objective adherance to regulation.” Just google “thalidomide babies.”
 
If your husband, wife, brother, sister, mom, dad were dying and the FDA told you they couldn’t try a drug that had great potential to save their life you’d be all fine with that because…well regulations.
 
jeannetherese said:
I am not interested in defending particular politicians. I do think that there are many ways to die. We can die of the virus, directly, through its spread, we can die of hunger, isolated in homes (unless structures are put into place to ensure that families recieve a base caloric load -and the ability to put such structures into place will vary greatly from country to country and from locale to locale), we can die during bread riots which get out of hand, or from political instability generated by economic uncertainties,- and that is a starter list.
Finding a way to address the challenges posed by this virus is going to involve healthcare; it is also going to involve a plan for maintaining political and economic stability. Keeping the economy reasonably health could save the lives of many.
We might consider shifting some aspects of production into delivery of health care products, thinking about maintaining agriculture in a situation in which borders are closed and the seasonal migration of agricultural labor is hampered, if not curtailed, perhaps infrastructure projects.
The sooner we can test to see who has been exposed and has some degree of immunity, the sooner we can work to provide additional labor imputs, both to healthcare and to other sectors of the economy. We are going to need to find a way to both protect to the best of our ability the elderly and infirm, and those who, through their labor, will help provide economic and political stability, and the tax dollars which support the delivery of all many services which are helping promote this stability. All of these are factors affecting life-it’s not a lives versus economics situation; it’s much more complicated than that.
Click to expand...
A lockdown means the shutting down of non essential services. I mean we are in a lockdown and here i am communicating on the internet with all infrastructure maintained and the ability to buy groceries at any time because food production is still going ahead. Will the lockdown that we have effect the economy, of course but we can minimize the number of deaths and thats most important, quaratines work, they did in 1918 and will again. The economy will just have to adapt to the needs of humanity (health first)
 
Last edited:
Theo520 said:
40.png
Freddy:
But I am seriously concerned about the delays in the US about getting anywhere near the level of control you need to get on top of this. I actually think you’ve left it too late and your deaths will be north of 250,000.

I can see a position where places like NZ and Australia will drop to a few isolated cases while it rages in places like the UK and the US. We’ll simply isolate from the rest of the world until the vaccine is ready. Nobody comes in. Nobody goes out.
Click to expand...
Much of the US is doing well, NY and NJ are the exceptions.

It will rise again in waves 2 & 3 … all across the world. Controlling the first wave doesn’t mean NZ and Australia are any safer in the future. We’ll all be playing ‘wack a mole’ starting by June.
Click to expand...
The idea i believe to keep numbers down now is to do so until a vaccine arrives, to try and make sure the curve comes in small waves we fight to keep down that let it overwhelm our hospitals
 
Last edited:
You may be able to lessen the number of deaths directly related to coronavirus in MDCs at this time. You may be able to lessen the total number of deaths directly related to coronavirus in MDCs over an extended time period. Whether you will lessen the number of deaths as a total that are both directly and indirectly related to coronavirus remains to be seen.
And a large portion of the global population does not live in MDCs.
The question being raised is might we save more lives by sequestering more vulnerable populations in terms of age and immunosuppression or by sequestering the entire populations for extended time periods? Answers may vary from country to country or even between locales within a given country.
 
jeannetherese said:
You may be able to lessen the number of deaths directly related to coronavirus in MDCs at this time. You may be able to lessen the total number of deaths directly related to coronavirus in MDCs over an extended time period. Whether you will lessen the number of deaths as a total that are both directly and indirectly related to coronavirus remains to be seen.
And a large portion of the global population does not live in MDCs.
The question being raised is might we save more lives by sequestering more vulnerable populations in terms of age and immunosuppression or by sequestering the entire populations for extended time periods? Answers may vary from country to country or even between locales within a given country.
Click to expand...
The idea of minimizing deaths actually has been proven, 100 years ago regions that were more strict in a lockdown received fewer deaths than regions that didn’t initiate such action

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
100 years ago, we had a very different economy, with many more family farms. And it’s a pretty safe bet that Kelowna (your British Columbia example) did not have a population of 120,000 in 1918 as it did in 2015.
Even with the prevalence of farming in the 1930s, the depression led to an unemployment rate of roughly 30%. My honorary grandma rented her chicken coop as housing.
World War II helped pull us out of the Depression
We are much more urbanized now with a greater dependency upon the service sector. The check from the government will not cover a months rent in the region in which I live -it will cover about 2 weeks-nor groceries or utilities and many people live from paycheck to paycheck.
Small businesses are endangered and some will be unable to reopen if shuttered for too long. People need to be earning to be able to buy groceries and to pay the taxes which will feed those unable to work.
Our highest risk population is retirement age. I wonder if it might not be better to have them shelter in place while our more able bodied workers keep the economy going in order to better support themselves, to keep smaller businesses viable and to provide care for our old ones?
 
Last edited:
ivermectin is not a new drug, but its use as a safe dose needs to be determined, so we need regulatory bodies.
 
Paddy1989 said:
The idea i believe to keep numbers down now is to do so until a vaccine arrives, to try and make sure the curve comes in small waves we fight to keep down that let it overwhelm our hospitals
Click to expand...
The idea is not to overwhelm health services and funeral homes. This is not working though. As we are seeing.
 
Last edited:
OurLadyofSorrows said:
40.png
Paddy1989:
The idea i believe to keep numbers down now is to do so until a vaccine arrives, to try and make sure the curve comes in small waves we fight to keep down that let it overwhelm our hospitals
Click to expand...
The idea is not to overwhelm health services and funeral homes. This is not working though. As we are seeing.
Click to expand...
Italy has stated they have started to see the reduction of the curve and the effects of the lockdown working to. Cases are dropping every day so they deaths should hopefully follow. It can take weeks for the lockdown to take effect and look like it’s working.
 
Last edited:
jeannetherese said:
100 years ago, we had a very different economy, with many more family farms. And it’s a pretty safe bet that Kelowna (your British Columbia example) did not have a population of 120,000 in 1918 as it did in 2015.
Even with the prevalence of farming in the 1930s, the depression led to an unemployment rate of roughly 30%. My honorary grandma rented her chicken coop as housing.
World War II helped pull us out of the Depression
We are much more urbanized now with a greater dependency upon the service sector. The check from the government will not cover a months rent in the region in which I live -it will cover about 2 weeks-nor groceries or utilities and many people live from paycheck to paycheck.
Small businesses are endangered and some will be unable to reopen if shuttered for too long. People need to be earning to be able to buy groceries and to pay the taxes which will feed those unable to work.
Our highest risk population is retirement age. I wonder if it might not be better to have them shelter in place while our more able bodied workers keep the economy going in order to better support themselves, to keep smaller businesses viable and to provide care for our old ones?
Click to expand...
I understand we need to balance healthcare and the economy as they are essential for humanity. The UK was actually going to go with that model, where the elderly are kept in isolation safe while younger healthier people would keep working and develop a herd immunity.

The problem was that all the models showed that even in such a scenario the death toll could be expected to hit 500,000, this idea was then thrown out. With the steps they have taken now they are hoping to keep the death toll below 20,000.

At the end of the day if any good can come out of this it’s the high value we have placed on human life by making sacrifices to preserve it, thats a beautiful thing and i hope with a softened heart society can look towards other vulnerable people, perhaps even the unborn by turning away from abortion.
 
Last edited:
OurLadyofSorrows said:
40.png
Freddy:
Ecuador doesn’t have nukes
Click to expand...
What on earth does that have to do with anything, Ecuador is not the only country whose funeral industry and body storage are struggling.
Click to expand...
If this virus goes seriously pear shaped then it will involve a lot more than a body count. It will change the political balance. If America goes into a depression, and that’s a distinct possibility, and Russia and China do not, and because of their existing political structure I’d say they would avoid that, then the world is going to be a lot different then it is now.

If European countries are seriously weakened and the US has neither the financial clout or the interest to help, then Putin is going to show a lot more interest in the Ukraine than he is now. And what better way to deflect his interest in that then to prompt India to retaliate first against Pakistan.

OK, that’s bordering on me being paranoid perhaps. But I really think people aren’t yet looking at the big picture if this scenario gets as bad as it could. I can guarantee that China hopes the US goes to hell in a handbasket. And if you go into a depression, they will not take their foot off your throat.
 
Paddy1989 said:
Italy has stated they have started to see the reduction of the curve and the effects of the lockdown working to. Cases are dropping every day so they deaths should hopefully follow. It can take weeks for the lockdown to take effect and look like it’s working.
Click to expand...
This in no way means they are not overwhelmed though does it. China is trying to minimize a second wave
 
Freddy said:
If this virus goes seriously pear shaped then it will involve a lot more than a body count. It will change the political balance. If America goes into a depression, and that’s a distinct possibility, and Russia and China do not, and because of their existing political structure I’d say they would avoid that, then the world is going to be a lot different then it is now.

If European countries are seriously weakened and the US has neither the financial clout or the interest to help, then Putin is going to show a lot more interest in the Ukraine than he is now. And what better way to deflect his interest in that then to prompt India to retaliate first against Pakistan.

OK, that’s bordering on me being paranoid perhaps. But I really think people aren’t yet looking at the big picture if this scenario gets as bad as it could. I can guarantee that China hopes the US goes to hell in a handbasket. And if you go into a depression, they will not take their foot off your throat.
Click to expand...
This virus is seriously pear shaped. We are going to be in a global recession, the modern name for depression.
This is a global issue, not one country will escape it. China just sent USA ventilators.
I agree the world will be changed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top