The Real reason why one cannot be saved by faith alone.

[beng]

exrc:

javelin,I defined the terms faith, works,law,grace,and born- again in a previous post. Nobody corrected me so I will assume that you all agree.Fair enough?

Arguing from silence is silly.

R.C. does start with a false premise,as you shall see.

Your strawmen have been refuted.

The way you get born-again as an rc is by water baptism as an infant. No personal faith is required by that infant.It is by works alone.

Are you kidding me? It’s BECAUSE Catholic baptized infant that it means Catholic believes that salvation is by grace alone!

Those who do not baptized infant and REQUIRED that a person must confess their faith before they are justified, have condemned themselves to the heresy of Pelagius

Grace draws the potential believer to a saving faith capable of reason, not an infant.

Aha, salvation by intellectual assent. Very semi-Pelagian.

Scripture tells us that we are born-again by faith(personal belief).John1:12.

Romans 6:3-7
Know you not that all we who are baptized in Christ Jesus are baptized in his death? For we are buried together with him by baptism into death: that, as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin may be destroyed, to the end that we may serve sin no longer. For he that is dead is justified from sin.

Acts 2:38-39
But Peter said to them: Do penance: and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call.

1 Peter 3:21
Whereunto baptism, being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but, the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Regenerative Baptism is one of the thing that ALL FATHERS achieve UNANIMOUS CONSENT. You and your man-made Protestantism have preached a gospel other than preach by the apostle (thus anathema be upon you Gal 1:8-9).

The two unquestionably oppose each other.

No

Using my definition of born again, you become at that point a son of God, spiritually alive, able to do good works.

No disagreement, although No fathers or bible verse will believe your definition of “born again”.

I can see why you are having such a tough time with this since you have to believe that something took place when it really didn’t.

Why do we have a hard time? We’re not the one who believe contrary to the constant teaching of the Church.

continue below.

 

[beng]

Final

If water baptism effects the second birth, and you guys keep getting unborn-again when you sin. Then it is logical to think that you should spend most of your life in the water. Also, since the Holy Spirit has left you and you are spiritually dead once again, someone would have to evangelize you once again.

You have shown a very defficient understanding of the Catholic faith. In fact, you know zilch.

Who said that we have to be rebaptized everytime? WQhen you commit a sin after being baptized you go to confession. Do you think that after one commit sin one does not need repentance? How presumptous are you!

John 20:21-23
21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Btw, can Protestant answer about the “retain” part?

Catholics seem to overlook the practicality of their very complex system of beliefs.

And what about you with your OSAS believe?

Do you think that you are ALWAYS saved? So you never commit any sin? Do you have a license to sin? You don’t need repentance?

In grace, not dumb enough to be Protestant, beng.

 

[Pax]

exrc:

javelin,I defined the terms faith, works,law,grace,and born- again in a previous post. Nobody corrected me so I will assume that you all agree.Fair enough?

…

IN love ex-catholic Dan!

Dan,

Please take no offense, but you and I are not qualified to define the terms faith, works, law, grace and born-again. We might have opinions but we are not in a position to define them. For the Catholic we have the Church’s definitions and we will not accept a truncated definition as a substitute. You mock Catholic teaching and theology. In deference to your native intelligence and God given common sense, I will assume that you are merely ill informed about Catholic teaching.

Compared to the great minds of the Catholic Church that established the canon of scripture, protected and handed down that scripture, and faithfully interpreted that scripture from the day of Pentecost, you and I are at best rank amateurs. I would suggest a great deal more humility and a sense of genuine inquiry on your part. Arrogant and obviously ignorant remarks do nothing for your efforts to communicate.

You used your own selfish childhood experience to establish what Catholic Christianity is about. It is quite clear from your own remarks that you were not at all God centered in your youth. You had not taken ownership of the gift of faith. This was not the fault of the Church. What you fail to understand is that your experience, as you see it, doesn’t necessarily fit the facts.

You seem to think that the “place” (not the Catholic Church) where the Lord finally got through to you somehow excludes the Catholic Church as a valid spiritual venue for knowing Christ. Nothing could be farther from the truth. God the Father does not want his children to spiritually starve. It makes no difference where the lost sheep has wandered. The Good Shepherd will seek out that sheep. So God found you far away from home. Rather than criticizing the Catholic Church, you should be more circumspect about your part in all of this.

I’ve actually had an ex-catholic, now evangelical, that left the Church as a young teen, only to finally find Jesus in her mid to late twenties, tell me that she never heard scripture in the Catholic Church. You’ve made a similar remark about not knowing of the bible in your youth. This is an example of it “not being the Church at fault” but the problem being within you at that time in your life. There is so much scripture in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that it totally defies these kinds of accusations. If you attend daily mass you will have been exposed to the entire bible within two years. If you attend only on Sundays and Holy days the cycle takes a little more than four years.

Just because your family didn’t read the bible at home doesn’t mean much. I was a young boy in the fifties and we had a beautiful Catholic bible in our home. In the front of that bible was a written encouragement by the Catholic Church to read the bible. You speak sarcastically about things that you do not know. Let me assure you that CCD classes are not enough. I went to Catholic schools through high school and there is a huge difference in that education than simply going to CCD. Even with that, my education was not sufficient. Christianity is a life long learning experience. The depths of scripture can never be exhausted and the love of God can never be fully explored.

cont. on next post

 

[Pax]

Cont. from prior post

You mock the Eucharist. How sad is that? In the Catholic Mass, the “once and for all sacrifice of Jesus” is re-presented to us in time and we are given the great privilege of receiving the precious body and blood of the Lord. While you were in the Church you were simply filled with unbelief. Be grateful that God has finally got through to your heart. But this is only the beginning. He wants you to come home so that you can receive him body, blood, soul, and divinity in the Holy Eucharist.

If you are truly honest and you wish to know the truth, then you must do two things. You must first pray that you will at all times honestly seek the truth and follow the Lord where ever he leads you. Secondly, you must have an open mind without prejudice and you must seek and study until you truly know what it is the Church teaches and all of the scriptural underpinnings that anchor them.

From what you have written in your posts, it appears to me that you actually know very little about the Church and that you have many preconceived notions that are contrary to what the Church really teaches and believes. .

 

[RMP]

A little off the topic, but I was surprised to learn that the Church is only responsible for keeping the deposit of faith intact, through the magesterium, the pope and the bishops. Bishops guide the priests, priests guide the parents. As a parent, I’m am responsible for my childrens faith, at least for the meantime. Parents cant just pass the buck or toss a bible our kids way. What a huge responsibility. The first step is recognizing that responsibility.

 

[StSteverino]

javelin:

YAQUBOS,

I’m very curious about something. You stated earlier that you are not a protestant. Yet your doctrinal views do not seem Catholic (at least not in the way most readers here understand what you are saying).

---

***When a person proclaiming what in essence is a protestant theology says ‘I am not a protestant’, it is oftent the case that they are asserting that they are part of the so called ‘blood church’. ***

---

This is a popular and untenable pseudo historical understanding of their own faith tradition. They are claiming that they are part of an authentic, on going tradition that predates the Reformation. They are sometimes the secret true church imbedded in the false church or they kept true faith alive in isolated regions, like the Basque regions of Spain.

---

They claim the original church was basically bible chapel christians and that the church was overwhelmed pretty much from the day of Pentacost by error, except for the true believing few. They date the rise of Catholicism, after the legalisation of Christianity by Constantine, as a pagan false church, a trojan horse, expressly designed by intriques between popes, pagans and devils to capture the elect and carry them to hell.

---

It is of course nonsense. Baptists, who make this claim, actually have no connection to the primitive church. Their roots are with Puritanism, Knox, and ultimately Genenva.

---

Seventh Day Adventists, fiercely anti-Catholic, refuse to be regarded as Protestants and see Protestantism as an improvement but still too Catholic. They were invented out of whole cloth less than 200 yrs ago in the mid 19th century.

---

Refusing to be identified as a protestant is to try to identify with the primitive church, which of course was essentially Catholic.

 

[StSteverino]

Aha! Now you say something very biblical! Amen, my friend!

In Love,
Yaqubos†
Amen and Love to you too. Let not the fierceness of our disputations keep our hearts from obeying the divine command to love, so often repeated by the beloved disciple.

Steve

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

javelin:

YAQUBOS,

I’m very curious about something. You stated earlier that you are not a protestant. Yet your doctrinal views do not seem Catholic (at least not in the way most readers here understand what you are saying).

If you’re not protestant, and not Catholic, to what Christian denomination do you most closely align yourself? If you claim to be Catholic, what particular sect or community do you belong to?

I’m not trying to pigeonhole you, or label you, just trying to know where else I might find someone with your doctrinal views.

Peace,
javelin

Humans have divided IN THEIR HUMAN INSTITUTIONS the Body of Christ. But in fact, the Body of Christ is one, His Bride is one.

You find many faithful children of God like me in every local church on this earth.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

beng:

No. Islam has a concept call Pahala which is more Pelagian than semi-Pelagian. You don’t know much do you

It seems that you don’t even know what Islam is… For Islam is a religion that believes in a book which was given by God in ARABIC!!! And you say the word Pahala!!! Do you know that there is not in Arabic the letter P???

P.S.: I speak and write Arabic. The Lord has given me the grace to tell Muslims about His Salvation. So I know Islam.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

RMP:

Eating the apple was not the sin.

Just to be clear: there is no apple in the whole story…

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

StSteverino:

Aha! Now you say something very biblical! Amen, my friend!

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Amen and Love to you too. Let not the fierceness of our disputations keep our hearts from obeying the divine command to love, so often repeated by the beloved disciple.

Steve

I don’t have any disputation with anyone here, that’s why I told you AMEN. I know the voice of my Shepherd wherever I hear it. So as I heard that voice when you said a true statement, I said: Amen!

You know that I love you. And loving you, I want your salvation.

“'You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him.” ( Leviticus 19:17 )

N.B.: When I say that I want your salvation, this doesn’t mean that I am judging you as not having Salvation and Life. If you have Life, then I say: Halleluia!

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[francisca]

Pax:

Francisca,

I do not believe that we are justified by works apart from faith. As Catholics we realize that we are not justified by works apart from faith. No one has even suggested such a thing on this thread. The Catholic Church has condemned such thinking as early as the fourth century in stamping out Pelagianism.

Exactly. But when Reformation broke out this was not the case. There were some abuses using the sacrament of penance and indulgences. They had people work their own salvation out of their own efforts.

These abuses were not done out of nothing.

There were and still ARE condemnations in the law of grace. The abuses were done using those condemnations to burden the people.

How can this be? Grace is not supposedly to condemn nor burden anyone. Grace is to set the people free.

If this misconception is what is causing the difficulty for you, then please rest assured that we in no way believe that we can be justified by works without faith.

OK.

The Church’s true teaching is that which comes from Jesus and the apostles. We are saved by grace alone, through the merits of Jesus Christ, by faith and works, but not by faith alone.

You mean that we are justified by faith and works (the blue color above) : is it Christ works or ours?

If the blue color above is our works then it is not the official teaching of the church. Ironically, many of us fall into the hole, because this is not easy.

The teaching of the church : Justification by Grace through faith. No place for our works at all.

But some tradition with small “t” has become an obstacle for us to accept this. For example : condemnations that comes with failure to receive sacraments. This kind of condemnation has double impact : it condemns those who fail to receive, but it also might cause some people to recieves out of fear of punishments instead of out of love. The latter-- according to Paul- are those who fall from grace because they are doing it for the sake of “rules” apart from faith in Christ.

This stumble stone makes people to be more focus in “punishments” instead of God’s Mercy that sets free (from punishments). It magnifies sin instead of blotting it out (Psalm 51).

In my humble opinion, this kind of tradition will have to go : because the sacraments are holy, but the condemnations has become obstacles for the people to receive those sacraments out of faith. This is how the word “works” pop up again and again : the sacraments come with condemnations. The sacraments are called sacrament of faith because we have to receive it out of faith, not out of fear of punishments.

These condemnations will have to go. Let the people receive sacraments because they believe, not because of fear of some law. Let those who does not believe be condemned because of their own disbelief (John 3:18).

[continue…]

 

[francisca]

…continue]

By the way, the message of Paul and James is the same. They are expressed differently to complement one another in such a way as to remove any doubt about God’s divine message to us.

Exactly. But to what extent that this revelation about faith (by Paul and James) shall be? Let’s say that I have faith. But does this faith set me free from my sins? This is what James was talking about. Or, rather, the faith condemns me to death (evil faith), so that my works shows it.

The tricky part of the bible teaching about Justification is

• if you believe, you will be set free. It means that not only that my sins are erased from “memory” but sin’s power is defeated as well resulting that I am FREE. No one can condemn me if God Himself free me : so If I believe, and therefore I am free, no human nor satan can condemn me anymore. The condemnation to the believers who put confidence in Divine Mercy (read Trent Council canon 12 about Justification) is not God’s will. God wills freedom for those who believe (having confidence in Divine Mercy)

John 8:36
"So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Further you might want to read about “the law of freedom” that James wrote :

James 1
25 But the one who peers into the perfect law 12 of freedom and perseveres, and is not a hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, such a one shall be blessed in what he does.

James 2
10 For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it.
11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not kill.” Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom. 5
13 For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

What is the “law of FREEDOM” that James was talking about? The way that James teaches in 1:25 is the exact teaching of Paul in Roman 6:15-18

Romans 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? Of course not!
16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that, although you were once slaves of sin, you have become obedient from the heart to the pattern of teaching to which you were entrusted. 3
18 Freed from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness .

Here Paul use word “slave” to determine who would do righteous deeds : those who are free are the ones to be righteous (do righteous deeds because they are slaves to righteousness). James use the word “law of freedom” to show who will do the commandment : those who “persevere” in the perfect “law of freedom” are the DOERS of the law.

• Conclusion : if we say that Justification is by Grace (and we know that we can’t earn Grace) yet “I still need to work it out a little bit”… this latter part (red color) is not the official teaching of the church about Justification. Instead, this is an indication that the church is not in its fullness of faith of its own teaching.

May God bless us all.

 

[beng]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

It seems that you don’t even know what Islam is… For Islam is a religion that believes in a book which was given by God in ARABIC!!! And you say the word Pahala!!! Do you know that there is not in Arabic the letter P???

P.S.: I speak and write Arabic. The Lord has given me the grace to tell Muslims about His Salvation. So I know Islam.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

It might not have the word “P” in it, but it sounds like such. I don’t speak Arabic, thus I spell it phonetically.

 

[RMP]

YAQUBOS
MY analogy still stands. Fruit, apple, you fill in the blanks of what the tree of knowledge was. WHY did you pose a question with a false premise then? Isnt that deception. Spawned from the DEVIL himself.
Very christian indeed. You will know christians by their love, love implies no deception. YOU set the snare. but, are you upset that* am still free?*

 

[exrc]

beng:

Final

You have shown a very defficient understanding of the Catholic faith. In fact, you know zilch.

Who said that we have to be rebaptized everytime? WQhen you commit a sin after being baptized you go to confession. Do you think that after one commit sin one does not need repentance? How presumptous are you!

In grace, not dumb enough to be Protestant, beng.

beng, How can you go to confession if you are once again dead spiritually. Spiritually dead are incapable of doing anything truly good. Confession is truly a good thing. Spiritually dead people have no regard for Gods laws , and do not know they are breaking them .Only sons of God are able to do his will,not dead people. Are you saying then that sin doesn’t really cause spiritual death in a true believer as we do. You can’t have it both ways buddy. If you remove the Holy Spirit from ones body, you remove the grace to be able to confess. Therefore, the means to restore initial grace ( the unmerited kind ) is by the sacrament of baptism. However, you will need to wrestle him down because he won’t know he needs it.

Yes, this is not a a practice of the rcc, but it obviously needs to be.

In love, to my very angry friend beng. Dan!

 

[beng]

francisca:

Exactly. But when Reformation broke out this was not the case. There were some abuses using the sacrament of penance and indulgences. They had people work their own salvation out of their own efforts.

These abuses were not done out of nothing.

There were and still ARE condemnations in the law of grace. The abuses were done using those condemnations to burden the people.

How can this be? Grace is not supposedly to condemn nor burden anyone. Grace is to set the people free.

Read more to further your knowledge.

Click here

And I have say it over and over again, it’s YOUR SINS that condemns you.

You mean that we are justified by faith and works (the blue color above) : is it Christ works or ours?

Justification is a process. After a man is justified he could increase the justification by doing meritorious work. The initial justification, however, can NOT be meritorious:

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God’s gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us “co-heirs” with Christ and worthy of obtaining “the promised inheritance of eternal life.” The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness. "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God’s gifts."

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification,** for the increase of grace and charity**, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.

2025 We can have merit in God’s sight only because of God’s free plan to associate man with the work of his grace. Merit is to be ascribed in the first place to the grace of God, and secondly to man’s collaboration. Man’s merit is due to God.

2027 No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.

continue below

 

[beng]

Council of Trent on Justification

CHAPTER V.
On the necessity, in adults, of preparation for Justification, and whence it proceeds.

The Synod furthermore declares, that in adults, the beginning of the said Justification is to be derived from the prevenient grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called; that so they, who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through His quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and co-operating with that said grace: in such sort that, while God touches the heart of man by the illumination of the Holy Ghost, neither is man himself utterly without doing anything while he receives that inspiration, forasmuch as he is also able to reject it; yet is he not able, by his own free will, without the grace of God, to move himself unto justice in His sight. Whence, when it is said in the sacred writings: Turn ye to me, and I will turn to you, we are admonished of our liberty; and when we answer; Convert us, O Lord, to thee, and we shall be converted, we confess that we are prevented by the grace of God.

In short, we are saved BY GRACE. Without that unmerited grace NO MAN can have FAITH. Without that unmerited grace NO MAN can do WORK.

Human are to CO-OPERATE with that grace in order for it to work properly and thereby justified them.

If the blue color above is our works then it is not the official teaching of the church. Ironically, many of us fall into the hole, because this is not easy.

The teaching of the church : Justification by Grace through faith. No place for our works at all.

You don’t know much about Church teaching.

Again from The Council of Trent decree on Justification

CHAPTER X.
On the increase of Justification received.

Having, therefore, been thus justified, and made the friends and domestics of God, advancing from virtue to virtue, they are renewed, as the Apostle says, day by day; that is, by mortifying the members of their own flesh, and by presenting them as instruments of justice unto sanctification, they, through the observance of the commandments of God and of the Church, faith co-operating with good works, increase in that justice which they have received through the grace of Christ, and are still further justified, as it is written; He that is just, let him be justified still; and again, Be not afraid to be justified even to death; and also, Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. And this increase of justification holy Church begs, when she prays, “Give unto us, O Lord, increase of faith, hope, and charity.”

continue below

 

[beng]

CHAPTER XVI.
On the fruit of Justification, that is, on the merit of good works, and on the nature of that merit.

Before men, therefore, who have been justified in this manner,-whether they have preserved uninterruptedly the grace received, or whether they have recovered it when lost,-are to be set the words of the Apostle: Abound in every good work, knowing that your labour is not in vain in the Lord; for God is not unjust, that he should forget your work, and the love which you have shown in his name; and, do not lose your confidence, which hath a great reward. And, for this cause, life eternal is to be proposed to those working well unto the end, and hoping in God, both as a grace mercifully promised to the sons of God through Jesus Christ, and as a reward which is according to the promise of God Himself, to be faithfully rendered to their good works and merits. For this is that crown of justice which the Apostle declared was, after his fight and course, laid up for him, to be rendered to him by the just judge, and not only to him, but also to all that love his coming. For, whereas Jesus Christ Himself continually infuses his virtue into the said justified,-as the head into the members, and the vine into the branches,-and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious before God,-we must believe that nothing further is wanting to the justified, to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life, to be obtained also in its (due) time, if so be, however, that they depart in grace: seeing that Christ, our Saviour, saith: If any one shall drink of the water that I will give him, he shall not thirst for ever; but it shall become in him a fountain of water springing up unto life everlasting. Thus, neither is our own justice established as our own as from ourselves; nor is the justice of God ignored or repudiated: for that justice which is called ours, because that we are justified from its being inherent in us, that same is (the justice) of God, because that it is infused into us of God, through the merit of Christ. Neither is this to be omitted,-that although, in the sacred writings, so much is attributed to good works, that Christ promises, that even he that shall give a drink of cold water to one of his least ones, shall not lose his reward; and the Apostle testifies that, That which is at present momentary and light of our tribulation, worketh for us above measure exceedingly an eternal weight of glory; nevertheless God forbid that a Christian should either trust or glory in himself, and not in the Lord, whose bounty towards all men is so great, that He will have the things which are His own gifts be their merits. And forasmuch as in many things we all offend, each one ought to have before his eyes, as well the severity and judgment, as the mercy and goodness (of God); neither ought any one to judge himself, even though he be not conscious to himself of anything; because the whole life of man is to be examined and judged, not by the judgment of man, but of God, who will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts, and then shall every man have praise from God, who, as it is written, will render to every man according to his works. After this Catholic doctrine on Justification, which whoso receiveth not faithfully and firmly cannot be justified, it hath seemed good to the holy Synod to subjoin these canons, that all may know not only what they ought to hold and follow, but also what to avoid and shun.

continue below

 

[beng]

Canon from the Council of Trent:
CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.

CANON XIX.-If any one saith, that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel; that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor prohibited, but free; or, that the ten commandments nowise appertain to Christians; let him be anathema.

CANON XX.-If any one saith, that the man who is justified and how perfect soever, is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe; as if indeed the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments ; let him be anathema.

CANON XXIV.-If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.

CANON XXVI.-If any one saith, that the just ought not, for their good works done in God, to expect and hope for an eternal recompense from God, through His mercy and the merit of Jesus Christ, if so be that they persevere to the end in well [Page 48] doing and in keeping the divine commandments; let him be anathema.

But some tradition with small “t” has become an obstacle for us to accept this. For example : condemnations that comes with failure to receive sacraments. This kind of condemnation has double impact : it condemns those who fail to receive, but it also might cause some people to recieves out of fear of punishments instead of out of love. The latter-- according to Paul- are those who fall from grace because they are doing it for the sake of “rules” apart from faith in Christ.

You are creating rules for yourself to justify your disobedience and your rejection to receive the heavenly gift from God from His sacraments.

If you sinned mortally and do not receive the sacrament of Penance you will be condemned by your own sin (unless you can do perfect contrition which is difficult).

And all of the quotes above from Catechism and the council of Trent are TRADITION with Capital “T”. You don’t know which is “tradition” and which is “Tradition”. And you try to make “Tradition” into “tradition” to justify your erroneous believes

This stumble stone makes people to be more focus in “punishments” instead of God’s Mercy that sets free (from punishments). It magnifies sin instead of blotting it out (Psalm 51).

You are being presumptious of God’s mercy. You think that you can do no wrong. God will judge you for your erroneous presumption.

In my humble opinion, this kind of tradition will have to go : because the sacraments are holy, but the condemnations has become obstacles for the people to receive those sacraments out of faith.

Your fear is of the Devil. A fear that dissuade you from receiving the grace of Sacraments.

As I have pointed out to you, fear can be a virtue, especially fear of God.

It’s childish and silly to think that punishment should discourage a person from observing a commandment.

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