The Real reason why one cannot be saved by faith alone.

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

beng:

Yes, we are saved by grace alone. But we are saved by grace that is merited by Christ, not so with Moslem.

And this grace are the thing that compells as to have faith and do work.

Ok. So you believe you are saved by Grace ALONE. So your faith is a 100% Grace and your works are 100% Grace. Grace means gift. Well, let’s think about this together: Show me where you read in the Bible that you receive LIFE by Grace ALONE.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

francisca:

Yaq, are you from episcopal church ?

Why are you trying to put me in a category all the time? Are you carnal?

“For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?” ( 1 Corinthians 3:4 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Pax:

exrc,

Okay, I will do as you ask and scold Yaqubos before returning to disciplining you (as if I could actually accomplish such a thing). LOL!!!

Yaquobos,

You have made quite a production out of the similarities between Catholic teaching and Islam as you understand them. While I know something of Islam I do not pretend to have any real expertise.

I will point out a couple of things, however, that you should keep in mind. Islam does not predate Judaism or Catholic Christianity, but it does predate Protestantism. Mohammed borrowed heavily from both Judaism and Christianity. His borrowing explains similarities and common ground. It is a serious misrepresentation to say that Catholics believe as Muslims believe. It would, on the other hand, be fair to say that Islam shares certain things with Christianity because it borrows from it.

Islam does not borrow from Protestantism because it predates Protestantism. Therefore, in one very limited sense, Islam, aside from its many errors, actually validates Catholic Christianity. It does so because it may give some testimony as to what authentic Christianity is based on what it borrowed from that true set of teachings. This cannot be said for Protestant teachings which never existed prior to the reformation.

exrc,

I have to eat my dinner so I will address your points upon my return. Until then, I’ll will simply say a prayer for you as my brother in Christ Jesus.

Dear Pax, if you have any problem with protestants, you can address your reply to them.

As to what concerns me in your reply, it is the part where you talk about Islam borrowing from Romans that you call Catholics and from Judaism. Well, let me just tell you that what we choose to borrow from another depends of our desires and of what we like. We all know that Muhammad wasn’t a prophet, but he was a false prophet. You know by which spirit is leaded a person like him. So such a person will borrow the false teachings of false teachers in the Church and among the Jews. Therefore he borrowed things that were ok with his way of thinking.

The Catholic Orthodox Church in that time was in big troubles with the sects and heresies. And many false teachers in the Church were teaching wrong teachings. Muhammad chose those wrong teachings, and he rejected the Bible.

By the way: we can’t just say that Muhammad just borrowed things from others. I think there was a certain bad spirit behind all this that is still working today, as always, in the children of desobediance.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

beng:

Islam does not believe in

1. Salvation
2. Original sin (follows from 1)

So?

All Christians believe in Salvation and in the sinful nature of all humans. You must talk about things concerning Salvation ( by faith or by works? ) that caracterize Romans and that Muslims do not believe .

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

3. christ merited our redemption

1. Mary as (THE mother of GOD) I cant spell the greek word

We all believe that Christ saved us, and that Mary is the mother of Christ who is God.

But we were talking about salvation by grace, by faith and works, in the Islam and Roman teachings.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

mrS4ntA:

Yes, interestingly enough Mary is placed very highly in Islam. Muhammad himself said about her daughter (Fatima I think her name was) that, “thou art most blessed among women, after Mary.”

Was it a coincidence that Mary appeared in Fatima in 1917?

Many speculate that she is to be the meeting point of Islam and Christianity; the byway through which Mohammedans could be converted.

It is interesting how Muslims and Romans agree on wrong teachings about Mary, and they disagree on biblical true teachings about Christ…

By the way, the beast from the earth is described as a lamb ( to take the place of the real Lamb, Jesus Christ ), but when he speaks, he speaks like a dragon ( wrong and blasphemous teachings ):

“Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.” ( Revelation 13:11 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[SocaliCatholic]

YAQUBOS,

How did you arrive at your beliefs?

You say through the Holy Spirit, that may be, but what I am refferring to is did you join a church, read the Bible independently or with other believers. If you had a question about your faith, what authority did you turn to? The Bible? Did you pray? How do you come to your conclusions?

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

YAQUBOS,

How did you arrive at your beliefs?

You say through the Holy Spirit, that may be, but what I am refferring to is did you join a church, read the Bible independently or with other believers. If you had a question about your faith, what authority did you turn to? The Bible? Did you pray? How do you come to your conclusions?

If you have the Holy Spirit, you will answer this question yourself.

Do you have the Holy Spirit who leads us in all truth?

Do you have LIFE?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[SocaliCatholic]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

If you have the Holy Spirit, you will answer this question yourself.

Do you have the Holy Spirit who leads us in all truth?

Do you have LIFE?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

You want me to answer you questions, yet you failed to answer mine?

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

SocaliCatholic:

You want me to answer you questions, yet you failed to answer mine?

Yes, in fact, the deep things of the Lord cannot be understood by the curious who don’t have the Spirit:

“But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.
For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.” ( 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 )

Praise the Lord! For He sent His Spirit and made us ALIVE!

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace!

By the way: when Paul says "But we have the mind of Christ" he doesn’t mean SOME of those who have the Spirit, but ALL who have the Spirit.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Pax]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Dear Pax, if you have any problem with protestants, you can address your reply to them.

As to what concerns me in your reply, it is the part where you talk about Islam borrowing from Romans that you call Catholics and from Judaism. Well, let me just tell you that what we choose to borrow from another depends of our desires and of what we like. We all know that Muhammad wasn’t a prophet, but he was a false prophet. You know by which spirit is leaded a person like him. So such a person will borrow the false teachings of false teachers in the Church and among the Jews. Therefore he borrowed things that were ok with his way of thinking.

The Catholic Orthodox Church in that time was in big troubles with the sects and heresies. And many false teachers in the Church were teaching wrong teachings. Muhammad chose those wrong teachings, and he rejected the Bible.

By the way: we can’t just say that Muhammad just borrowed things from others. I think there was a certain bad spirit behind all this that is still working today, as always, in the children of desobediance.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Yaqubos,

You have done nothing to establish your points in the way of facts. You are wrong about who was teaching errors and when. “Faith alone” is a doctrine made up from whole cloth by a man named Martin Luther and was never believed by the Christian Church.

If you want to make claims as to what teachings were borrowed by Islam that were errors and which were not than you’ve got a lot of historical work to do and you have to lay out a careful case. I would suggest you do this research because it will force you to learn the “constant” teaching of the church since the time of Christ. You work from an erroneous doctrinal premise in all of your arguments. You do not work from scripture first. That is why all of your points about faith alone have been soundly refuted from scripture. You, nevertheless, cling to this teaching because it is your doctrinal premise upon which you attempt to attach certain verses of scripture.

 

[RMP]

Peace be with you!
Quote:
RMP
I DO. And I have the spirit. Prove me Im wrong!

Sola scriptura may as well be called scritural ANARCHY.

Yaqubos
When I asked you who says that Christ chose Peter, I was trying to show you your circular thinking. But you insist on judging others… In this way, you will not see

I see. That is exactly why I chose these words. I have not judged anything. I only expressed the result. scriptural anarchy. Yet this is your proof against the church.
By the way, you never attempted a response. If you were to try, we would then have to make an honest conversation using history, references to documents, extrabiblical, ect to support our positions. THIS is exactly what you refuse to do about anything. BUT, my response still stands… I bet you have no response at all. except with your feelings.

 

[RMP]

And let me make something clear to you. Christ did not choose Peter, CHRIST chose Simon, and then renamed him Peter in significance to his new calling to the church. That is very clear in the reading. So technically the premise of your question is wrong.

 

[RBushlow]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Dear Pax, if you have any problem with protestants, you can address your reply to them.

Peace be with you also.
Yaqobos my dear brother in Christ, you are espousing protestant doctrines, not Catholic and not Orthodox. There are others, or course, such as Jehova’s Witness and Mormons, but you don’t seem to be declaring their teachings, so it is only natural to think of you as protestant. If you believe the protestant doctrines, then you are protestant.

Yours in Christ.

 

[beng]

YAQUBOS:

Ok. So you believe you are saved by Grace ALONE. So your faith is a 100% Grace and your works are 100% Grace. Grace means gift. Well, let’s think about this together: Show me where you read in the Bible that you receive LIFE by Grace ALONE.

First of all, it’s the mistery of God’s predestination and free will. I would not say it’s 100% grace but I can not say also that it’s not 100%.

Because there’s a slight element of free will that makes us cooperate with that grace in order for us to properly answer that grace. And even this cooperation is also illuminated by grace.

Which are the verses which shows that without grace man can’t direct himself properly to God? Read these canons from the Council of Orange and look for the verses:

Canon 3. If anyone says that the grace of God can be conferred as a result of human prayer, but that it is not grace itself which makes us pray to God, he contradicts the prophet Isaiah, or the Apostle who says the same thing, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me” (Rom 10:20, quoting Isa. 65:1).

Canon 4. If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, “The will is prepared by the Lord” (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, “For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).

Canon 5. If anyone says that not only the increase of faith but also its beginning and the very desire for faith, by which we believe in Him who justifies the ungodly and comes to the regeneration of holy baptism — if anyone says that this belongs to us by nature and not by a gift of grace, that is, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit amending our will and turning it from unbelief to faith and from godlessness to godliness, it is proof that he is opposed to the teaching of the Apostles, for blessed Paul says, “And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil. 1:6). And again, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8). For those who state that the faith by which we believe in God is natural make all who are separated from the Church of Christ by definition in some measure believers.

Canon 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10).

Cont below

 

[beng]

Final

Canon 7. If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, as is expedient for us, or that we can be saved, that is, assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who makes all men gladly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray by a heretical spirit, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, “For apart from me you can do nothing” (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, “Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God” (2 Cor. 3:5).

There are many more just read the Canons of the Council of Orange here

The Catholic faith is so wonderful I’m constantly at awe.

 

[beng]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Why are you trying to put me in a category all the time? Are you carnal?

“For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?” ( 1 Corinthians 3:4 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†

You are a Protestant, live with it.

 

[beng]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!
So?

All Christians believe in Salvation and in the sinful nature of all humans. You must talk about things concerning Salvation ( by faith or by works? ) that caracterize Romans and that Muslims do not believe .

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Why do I have to find something that Characterize the Holy Catholic Church which Moslem does not believe?

Even your assertion that Moslem believes in grace can be faulty. That is why I requestr article by some credible Moslem scholar. Because Moslem does not believe in salvation.

And all Christian DO NOT believe salvation the same way. Not only that ALL Christians DO NOT believe in sinful nature the same way.

 

[beng]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

It is interesting how Muslims and Romans agree on wrong teachings about Mary, and they disagree on biblical true teachings about Christ…

Yeah right.

Islam believe in the God of Abraham too does that makes Islam = Christianity?

Your faulty Protestant (yes you are a Protestant) logic is ridiculous.