The Real reason why one cannot be saved by faith alone.

[Pax]

exrc:

,

…

Yes, I’m a very bad boy , I should have just believed you. What was I thinking?

.
Well, maybe the fact that my Mom+Dad are still rc, and believe they are getting to heaven solely because their good deeds out weigh their bad deeds, has a little to do with it. There they go, to mass every Sunday like good little rc’s. Hoping that when they die everything will be o.k. I shudder to think of that day when they try to use that one on our Lord!
When God given faith is used as means to gradually become justified, it becomes a work. Therefore your salvation becomes a wage, and is earned. Grace (the gift) is then nullified . Once you pay for something, even a penny, you have earned it. And that is something to boast about.

faith (works)+sacramental(works)+ good (works)= catholic salvation

No matter how you look at it, its works!

For the chistian however, he accepts the FREE GIFT!!! by true saving faith ALONE! He works hard to please God because he loves God!

Amen! Now believe it.

Amen!
.

Isn’t a debate forum about debate?

In love ,exrc!

exrc,

Thank you for saying these things in love. We all need to carry the message with love.

You gave me a couple of “Amens” when I once again explained the Churches teaching on salvation. Apparently, I have made at least a little progress with you. I find your second “Amen”, however, to be rather odd in that you quote me and then tell me to “believe it.” Well, I already believe it. You apparently don’t believe that I or any Catholic believes what the Church teaches or that the Church teaches what we say it does. This is not our problem but yours.

You objected to my statement “that you should now consider yourself informed about Catholic teaching and that you should no longer distort the facts or denigrate the truth.” I do not deny that this forum is offering a place for debate, but that in no way suggests that we are allowed to distort the truth. Catholic teaching is what is. You can debate its validity but it is wrong to improperly articulate what the Church teaches especially when you have been properly informed. If you deny that you believe in “once saved always saved,” I will not insist that you do believe it. If you tell me that you believe baptism to be regenerative then I will not claim that you believe otherwise.

I am only demanding that you extend the same respect to Catholic teaching and doctrine. When you do not properly understand it and you are corrected, then you should be willing to abandon your previous stereotypes. You may have disagreements with the true definitions provided, but you should accept them as presented.

 

[Pax]

exrc:

,
…

When God given faith is used as means to gradually become justified, it becomes a work. Therefore your salvation becomes a wage, and is earned. Grace (the gift) is then nullified . Once you pay for something, even a penny, you have earned it. And that is something to boast about.

faith (works)+sacramental(works)+ good (works)= catholic salvation

No matter how you look at it, its works!

For the chistian however, he accepts the FREE GIFT!!! by true saving faith ALONE! He works hard to please God because he loves God!

…

In love ,exrc!

exrc,

I have a verse that I think needs some explanation in regards to your remarks.

1 Peter 1:1-2 says, “PETER, AN apostle of Jesus Christ, To the exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.” Now we know from these opening verses that Peter is writing to Christians. In light of this the following verse obviously contradicts your remarks that salvation is not a process:

1 Peter 2:2-3
“Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation; for you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.”

Now there are many other verses that demonstrate this as well, but I think this one is a good one for you to study and think about. It is my belief that you argue from a false doctrinal premise rather than arguing from scripture. Please think about this.

Now what about faith as a gift and all this business about works that you are so adamant about in your misunderstandings of Catholic teaching. Try reading all of our Catholic posts that articulate our Church’s understanding and doctrine and place this along side your faulty claims against us. You are arguing against us with arguments that do not apply. You argue past the point because you do not confront what we have presented. Instead, you confront a caricature and a straw man of your tradition’s own making.

 

[Pax]

exrc,

Do you love God?

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior and that He alone died for your sins?

Do you place all of your trust/hope in Jesus Christ?

My assumption is that you will answer all of these questions in the affirmative.

If a person does not answer yes to these questions, is that person saved?

My assumption is that you will say “No.”

So far, I believe that you and I would probably agree on the answers to each of the questions.

Now please carefully note that the first three questions all involve belief or faith. Faith is, as you have stated, a free gift from God and cannot be earned. Faith is believing. Once we receive the free gift of faith we are able to believe in God and believe everything that He has revealed to us. After having recieved this gift, “believing” is then something that by the grace of God**“we do.”** This is also true of the supernatural gifts of hope(trust) and charity(love). This my brother is where James teaching on works comes in. Even faith and love are works, and scripture even tells us so. You can refer to some of my earlier posts to see the verses that verify this. Now chill out and think about this with an open and sincere heart. Sure, it is contrary to what your Protestant teachers have told you, but it is the truth and it is completely consistent with scripture. It is the teaching of both Paul and James, and it is all by the grace of God.

 

[beng]

3. christ merited our redemption

Maybe at SOME very ambigious level they did. Remamber, they called Isa “Al–Messias” or something like that. Meaning that he is the Mesiah.

The fact is, since Catholicism (the Early Church was Catholic) is very strong in the region Mohammad wouldn’t be succesful if he created and entirely different religion. And the opinion about Christ those days were pretty stong.

1. Mary as (THE mother of GOD) I cant spell the greek word

Now, this is interesting too.

EVEN IF Islam does not believe in Original Sin, they SOMEHOW believe in somekind of Immaculat3e Conception for Mary. In fact Hilaire Belloc mention this (Belloc even criticize the Protestant anti-Catholic who accused that Catholic borrows Immaculate Conception concept from Islam. The Protestant did not know that it’'s actually Islam who borrowed it from Catholicism).

More reading concerning this:

From EWTN archieve. The Virgin Mary in the Koran

 

[francisca]

mayra hart:

Then the Protestant apologist will bombard you with Scripture verses that, allegedly, prove that our salvation is guaranteed and cannot be lost, once it has been obtained.

It’s true that we should believe that “we are saved by faith in hope”. Faith is the assurance itself.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

“Our salvation can be lost” is only a law, a definition that is “technically correct” but it has no value of faith.

We shall declare God’s Truth, because that is The Truth according to what we believe. We believe because God says so. Even if we can’t see the victory yet, we will have to believe it, hold on to that belief, or we will lose our ground.

The important thing with Christianity is : we-- aware or unaware-- are ALWAYS in spiritual war. Spiritual war is unseen, undefined. But we can see what kind of spirit from what it says.

The problem with technical definition : it can be accurate according to cognitive mind, but it is not truthful to our belief, thus the enemy of the Spirit of Truth. This means, some technical definition can be accurate logically but does not represent The (absolute, highest) Truth. This is because spiritual realm is not exactly logical.

Our cognitive mind use premises to draw conclusion. But spiritual realm starts everything from God’s words. And all the premises we use in our mind comes from the spirit we have. Should we believe in God’s words, then we draw wisdom from the Spirit of Truth. On the contrary, should we do not, our wisdom would come from premises that-- although accurate-- betrays Christ.

If we say we believe in God, but then we “question” whether He will fulfill His Promise in my life, then we know that we actually do not really believe Him, do we ?

On the contrary, although some “technical definition” tells “that salvation is not guaranteed”, yet despite of this, I still believe Him who is always Truthful, then this is the faith. And Jesus said, “let it happen to you according to what you believe” (Mat 9:29). Thus reality is determined by what we believe. Therefore logical realm can’t deal with this : because logical realm is caged in reality. But God is the determination of reality Himself. If we believe Him, then we have authority over reality. This is what faith is about : to believe God & His Promise & His Word despite of all things in our reality, because God’s Truth is the Highest Reality.

All of the appostles’ letters talk about “holding on to the faith”. This is the faith that we should hold on : That Jesus has redeemed us from all of our sins. He has paid the price. We are saved because we believe this : provided we insist that we believe this. But if we insist on technical definitions, those technical definitions can’t save anyone.

It does not matter if a man tries to interpret the scriptures : if it comes from his unbelief, he can use scriptures to back whatever he wants to believe. But unfortunately, those are NOT God’s word. We can receive God’s word only if we have believed God first. If we do not believe Him, then whatever He says we will not receive it.

John 10
27 “My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand. [it seems that my salvation is very very sure - francisca]
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all , 13 and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.
30 14 The Father and I are one.”

[continue…]

 

[mayra_hart]

The Last Things: Judgment, Heaven, Hell and Purgat Fr. John Corapi, SOLT

Our Lord took the sting out of death. He met it head on, and the person who lives and dies in Christ has no need to fear death and dying. Jesus Christ won the victory for us through the Paschal Mystery. That does not, however, mean that we do nothing. We must accept the victory. How do we do it? Quite simply by living the life of Christ: a moral life lived in concert with the true and the good. How do we know what that is and how to do it? Quite simply, by accepting the church’s teaching, all of it. For the church, like a good mother, teaches her children how to live and how to die in Christ. The particular judgment is that judgment which comes immediately upon death. “Each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith” (#1021). As the Catechism reminds us, and it is defined teaching, not optional: Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven–through a purification (purgatory) or immediately–or immediate and everlasting damnation (Hell) (#1022).

Hell is a terrifying possibility. “We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him” (#1033). This means we accept the life of Christ. This means we freely choose to live the moral life which the church teaches us to live. This means we form our conscience to the objective truth which is the church’s teaching. Then we can follow our conscience and be sure of choosing the good and rejecting evil. This is love. It is an act of the will informed by an intellect in conformity with objective truth–God himself. Christ and his teaching are one. This is what the Church teaches. This is what sets us free. This is what propels us on a course for heaven and away from hell. bless you all

 

[mrS4ntA]

beng:

…
Now, this is interesting too.

EVEN IF Islam does not believe in Original Sin, they SOMEHOW believe in somekind of Immaculat3e Conception for Mary. In fact Hilaire Belloc mention this (Belloc even criticize the Protestant anti-Catholic who accused that Catholic borrows Immaculate Conception concept from Islam. The Protestant did not know that it’'s actually Islam who borrowed it from Catholicism).

More reading concerning this:

From EWTN archieve. The Virgin Mary in the Koran

Yes, interestingly enough Mary is placed very highly in Islam. Muhammad himself said about her daughter (Fatima I think her name was) that, “thou art most blessed among women, after Mary.”

Was it a coincidence that Mary appeared in Fatima in 1917?

Many speculate that she is to be the meeting point of Islam and Christianity; the byway through which Mohammedans could be converted.

 

[francisca]

…continue]
mayra hart:

Hence, when Protestants quote Scripture, we must check the context to see if it contradicts the authentic Scriptural message, that is, the interpretation and teaching of the Apostles and their successors, who have received sound doctrine from God Himself (cf. 2 Timothy 2:2, etc.).

What is the most authentic scriptural message according to the authentic authority of the teaching of the church?

It says “Whoever believe, shall be saved” !

and not “whoever believe & work shall be saved”. This is wrong.

Whoever believe will work for God, but those who does not believe will work for sin (Paul teach us that we have two masters in Romans 6-8).

God bless

 

[mrS4ntA]

francisca:

…continue]

What is the most authentic scriptural message according to the authentic authority of the teaching of the church?

It says “Whoever believe, shall be saved” !

and not “whoever believe & work shall be saved”. This is wrong.

Whoever believe will work for God, but those who does not believe will work for sin (Paul teach us that we have two masters in Romans 6-8).

God bless

St James, “for one is not saved by faith alone.” “Faith without works is dead.”

“believe” constitutes in “having faith in Him” AND “do as My Father commands” — Jesus.

Whoever believe will work for God

Isn’t that a Calvinist/Lutheran view?

I don’t think works does not automaticallyflows from faith, but from sanctifying grace, embrace with FREE WILL.

 

[RMP]

Quote:
4. Mary as (THE mother of GOD) I cant spell the greek word
Now, this is interesting too

My only point of including her was the Islamic faith never really believed ALLAH would humble himself as a man, birthed of a woman. This is why they recognize christ as a man and maybe prophet and reflect on his teahings, but dont endorse him as the messiah, GOD-man.

 

[beng]

francisca:

It’s true that we should believe that “we are saved by faith in hope”. Faith is the assurance itself.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

“Our salvation can be lost” is only a law, a definition that is “technically correct” but it has no value of faith.

We shall declare God’s Truth, because that is The Truth according to what we believe. We believe because God says so. Even if we can’t see the victory yet, we will have to believe it, hold on to that belief, or we will lose our ground.

The important thing with Christianity is : we-- aware or unaware-- are ALWAYS in spiritual war. Spiritual war is unseen, undefined. But we can see what kind of spirit from what it says.

The problem with technical definition : it can be accurate according to cognitive mind, but it is not truthful to our belief, thus the enemy of the Spirit of Truth. This means, some technical definition can be accurate logically but does not represent The (absolute, highest) Truth. This is because spiritual realm is not exactly logical.

Our cognitive mind use premises to draw conclusion. But spiritual realm starts everything from God’s words. And all the premises we use in our mind comes from the spirit we have. Should we believe in God’s words, then we draw wisdom from the Spirit of Truth. On the contrary, should we do not, our wisdom would come from premises that-- although accurate-- betrays Christ.

If we say we believe in God, but then we “question” whether He will fulfill His Promise in my life, then we know that we actually do not really believe Him, do we ?

On the contrary, although some “technical definition” tells “that salvation is not guaranteed”, yet despite of this, I still believe Him who is always Truthful, then this is the faith. And Jesus said, “let it happen to you according to what you believe” (Mat 9:29). Thus reality is determined by what we believe. Therefore logical realm can’t deal with this : because logical realm is caged in reality. But God is the determination of reality Himself. If we believe Him, then we have authority over reality. This is what faith is about : to believe God & His Promise & His Word despite of all things in our reality, because God’s Truth is the Highest Reality.

All of the appostles’ letters talk about “holding on to the faith”. This is the faith that we should hold on : That Jesus has redeemed us from all of our sins. He has paid the price. We are saved because we believe this : provided we insist that we believe this. But if we insist on technical definitions, those technical definitions can’t save anyone.

It does not matter if a man tries to interpret the scriptures : if it comes from his unbelief, he can use scriptures to back whatever he wants to believe. But unfortunately, those are NOT God’s word. We can receive God’s word only if we have believed God first. If we do not believe Him, then whatever He says we will not receive it.

John 10
27 “My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand. [it seems that my salvation is very very sure - francisca]
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all , 13 and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.
30 14 The Father and I are one.”

[continue…]

This is not the Apostolic and Catholic faith.

Any Catholic posters who read this and agree with this is in error.

 

[beng]

To continue above:

Francisca’s ideas is incompatible with these canons (and take note that these Canons is protecteed by the Holy Spirit from error)

**CANON XII.-If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ’s sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema.

CANON XIII.-If any one saith, that it is necessary for every one, for the obtaining the remission of sins, that he believe for certain, and without any wavering arising from his own infirmity and disposition, that his sins are forgiven him; let him be anathema.

CANON XIV.-If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema.

CANON XV.-If any one saith, that a man, who is born again and justified, is bound of faith to believe that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; let him be anathema.

CANON XVI.-If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema. **

 

[RMP]

true dat. post 453.

 

[beng]

francisca:

…continue]

What is the most authentic scriptural message according to the authentic authority of the teaching of the church?

It says “Whoever believe, shall be saved” !

and not “whoever believe & work shall be saved”. This is wrong.

Whoever believe will work for God, but those who does not believe will work for sin (Paul teach us that we have two masters in Romans 6-8).

God bless

Romans 2:13
*For not the hearers of the law are just before God: but the doers of the law shall be justified.
*

 

[francisca]

mrS4ntA:

St James, “for one is not saved by faith alone.” “Faith without works is dead.”

James & Paul​

Romans 4:4 A worker’s WAGE is credited NOT as a gift, but as something DUE.
Romans 4:5 BUT when one does NOT work, yet BELIEVES in the one who justifies the ungodly, his FAITH IS CREDITED as RIGHTEOUSNESS.

So here Paul separate “reward” in Romans 4:4

with

“justification” = “the freely given initial grace” in Romans 4:5

Now let’s see what James wrote :

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?

So James here talked about “the sacrifice of Isaac”

Let’s see What God said about this good works of Abraham :

Genesis 22
17 I will bless you abundantly and make your descendants as countless as the stars of the sky and the sands of the seashore; your descendants shall take possession of the gates of their enemies,
18 and in your descendants all the nations of the earth shall find blessing-- all this because you obeyed my command.’’

So now we see that according to Paul’s category, James was talking about “reward” (Romans 4:4), not “freely given inital grace of Justification” (Romans 4:5) .

Because, the only event of Abrahams life that fulfill Romans 4:5’s category is :

Genesis 15:6
1 Abram put his FAITH in the LORD, who CREDITED IT to him as RIGHTEOUSNESS

This Genesis 15 was not about Abraham who sacrifice Isaac. In fact, Abraham did not do anything but believe in God’s promise, then God credited it as righteousness. This righteousness is totally free. Abraham did not earned it. This was not the case in Genesis 22 when God “reward” Abraham with “blessings” because of his action.

So again this proves that faith must comes first so that God can credit it to us as righteousness, only then action of righteousness will follow .

“believe” constitutes in “having faith in Him” AND “do as My Father commands” — Jesus.

Yes. And Romans 6:18 says

Romans 6:18
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

So we must be Justified first before we can do something. And this works we do can not justify us. Instead they are the fruits of our salvation.

Isn’t that a Calvinist/Lutheran view?

It is biblical.

I don’t think works does not automaticallyflows from faith, but from sanctifying grace, embrace with FREE WILL.

I really agree with “initial grace” “actual grace” “sanctifiying grace” etc. So long we don’t say that “our works saves us”. This is the reason why we come to the conclution that says “our salvation is not guaranteed”. This has causes us fallen from the faith that we ought to hold on.

God bless.

 

[francisca]

beng:

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God: but the doers of the law shall be justified.

You who teach to read bible according to it’s context, why do you quote only one verse? (See what Paul has to say about this kind of action in Romans 2:21-22)

Read the rest of the story then you will find the conclusion in these verses :

Romans 3:20-28
since no human being will be justified in his sight 5 by observing the law; for through the law comes consciousness of sin.
21 6 But now 7 the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, though testified to by the law and the prophets,
22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction;
23 all have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as an expiation, 8 through faith, by his blood, to prove his righteousness because of the forgiveness of sins previously committed,
26 through the forbearance of God–to prove his righteousness in the present time, that he might be righteous and justify the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 What occasion is there then for boasting? 9 It is ruled out. On what principle, that of works? No, rather on the principle of faith. 28 For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Do you know that this confirms 1John 3 that says

1John 3:7
Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;

See that righteous person do righteous deeds. But where does he get his righteousness? From his works? No ! Rather, his works is and indication of his righteousness. As for his righteousness he receives from having faith in God.

And yes we will be justified according to our works. Therefore : Do not sin! How do we do this? Tell me, how do we stop sinning? We stop sinning because God free us from the power of sins.

Read once again :

Romans 3
21 6 But now 7 the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, though testified to by the law and the prophets,
22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.

Only by this one can be free from his sin’s power in his life. And because of this he does not sin anymore. This is how one can become truly righeous : to believe that Jesus die for our sins so that we can be free from them.

May God bless us all

 

[beng]

francisca:

James & Paul​

Romans 4:4 A worker’s WAGE is credited NOT as a gift, but as something DUE.
Romans 4:5 BUT when one does NOT work, yet BELIEVES in the one who justifies the ungodly, his FAITH IS CREDITED as RIGHTEOUSNESS.

So here Paul separate “reward” in Romans 4:4

with

“justification” = “the freely given initial grace” in Romans 4:5

Paul DID NOT distinct the use of the word “work” from

1. Work done as obligation
2. Work done under grace.

Romans 4 is no:1

Romans 2 is No:2

This Genesis 15 was not about Abraham who sacrifice Isaac. In fact, Abraham did not do anything but believe in God’s promise, then God credited it as righteousness. This righteousness is totally free. Abraham did not earned it. This was not the case in Genesis 22 when God “reward” Abraham with “blessings” because of his action.

So again this proves that faith must comes first so that God can credit it to us as righteousness, only then action of righteousness will follow .

Gen 22:10
10 And he put forth his hand, and took the sword, to sacrifice his son.

Abraham did not just believe. He took his sword and about to sacrifice his son.

CANON XXIV.-If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.

Yes. And Romans 6:18 says

Romans 6:18
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

So we must be Justified first before we can do something. And this works we do can not justify us. Instead they are the fruits of our salvation.

Before human are justified human CAN do something. As you see for yourself even Pagan do good. They took care of their children, took care of the sick, even seek God etc. This is because they are helped by ACTUAL GRACE which God has given to every human.

However it’s ONLY AFTER we are justified that we attain sanctifying grace.

And recall Canon XXIV of Trent. Good work is not mere fruit. That is a Protestant notion whcih was rightly condemned by the council of Trent because it’s incompatible with the Christian Faith.

It is biblical.

It’s not. Because it’s not the Catholic teaching. And ONLY Catholic teaching is Biblical because it is the Catholic Church who compile the Bibel and it is the Catholic Church that maintain a Valid Apostolic Sucession of the Magisterium teachers (the whole college of Bishops). Plus, the Catholic Church also have the sucessor of Peter who were given the “keys to the Kingdom of Heaven” (Mat 16:18-19, the “you” in that verse is singular and only to Peter)

I really agree with “initial grace” “actual grace” “sanctifiying grace” etc. So long we don’t say that “our works saves us”. This is the reason why we come to the conclution that says “our salvation is not guaranteed”. This has causes us fallen from the faith that we ought to hold on.

God bless.

GRACE SAVES US.

You can NOT have faith without grace
You can NOT do good work without grace

And yes your salvation is obviously not guaranteed. Why? For obvious reason that you DO NOT KNOW the future. We are to endure our faith.

And this is Catholic.com forum, why don’t you take the time to read this free online Article about Assurance of Salvation?

It’s better than reading many Protestant populer book with erroneous theology that only appear after the 16th century.

 

[beng]

francisca:

You who teach to read bible according to it’s context, why do you quote only one verse? (See what Paul has to say about this kind of action in Romans 2:21-22)

Read the rest of the story then you will find the conclusion in these verses :

Romans 3:20-28
since no human being will be justified in his sight 5 by observing the law; for through the law comes consciousness of sin.
21 6 But now 7 the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, though testified to by the law and the prophets,
22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction;
23 all have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as an expiation, 8 through faith, by his blood, to prove his righteousness because of the forgiveness of sins previously committed,
26 through the forbearance of God–to prove his righteousness in the present time, that he might be righteous and justify the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 What occasion is there then for boasting? 9 It is ruled out. On what principle, that of works? No, rather on the principle of faith. 28 For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

God bless.

Your argument is very Protestant. They think that somehow in Romans 2, Paul is leading the readers and then concluding in their favourite Romasn 2. Yet it can be proven that Paul structure his letter topically (and I can prove this).

As I said, in Rom 2, Paul is showing work that is done under grace and not under the principal of obligation. NOT ONLY in verse 13 but also the verses before it that explain this idea:

Romans 2: 5-12
5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just* judgment of God: 6 Who will render to every man according to his works**. 7 To them indeed who,** according to patience in good work**, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious and who obey not the truth but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. 9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil: of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. 10 But glory and honour and peace to every one that worketh good: to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For whosoever have sinned without the law shall perish without the law: and whosoever have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.*

Your explanation that ALL kind of works do not justify can not be reconcile with Paul’s theology.

 

[francisca]

In my posting #472 I mistyped :

And yes we will be justified according to our works. Therefore : Do not sin! How do we do this? Tell me, how do we stop sinning? We stop sinning because God free us from the power of sins.

What I meant was :

And yes we will be judged according to our works. Therefore : Do not sin! How do we do this? Tell me, how do we stop sinning? We stop sinning because God free us from the power of sins.

I apologize for this mistake.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

RMP:

I DO. And I have the spirit. Prove me Im wrong!

Sola scriptura may as well be called scritural ANARCHY.

When I asked you who says that Christ chose Peter, I was trying to show you your circular thinking. But you insist on judging others… In this way, you will not see…

In Love,
Yaqubos†