The Real reason why one cannot be saved by faith alone.

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YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

Friends, I understand what you want to say about Roman teachings. I understand that you say you believe in salvation by grace alone, by faith and works. I understand that you want to insist on the fact that if you don’t do good deeds your faith is dead.

But the thing you are not understanding is that we are not talking about that DEAD faith of Satan!

We are talking about having LIFE by the LIVING faith. Why are you underestimating LIFE? If you have LIFE, this means you LIVE! Did you ever see someone asking a living to live???

When you say Salvation is by faith and works, it’s like saying you have Life by believing and having Life…
If you have Life, this means you LIVE. Do you know what’s the meaning of being spiritually ALIVE? It means to do deeds of righteousness flowing from the Spirit living in you!

Believe in Jesus, and you have LIFE. Then tell me if you will like to sin… if you don’t want to do good deeds…

In Love,
Yaqubos†
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My friend YAQUBOS, I have been down the protestant path before I became Catholic. I know where you are coming from. I know you have good intentions. HOWEVER,

**LOVE = CHARITY = FAITH AND WORKS

FAITH WITHOUT WORKS= DEAD = FAITH ALONE James 2:24**

James 2:24
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
 
Peace be with you!
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SocaliCatholic:
My friend YAQUBOS, I have been down the protestant path before I became Catholic. I know where you are coming from. I know you have good intentions. HOWEVER,

LOVE = CHARITY = FAITH AND WORKS

FAITH WITHOUT WORKS= DEAD = FAITH ALONE James 2:24

James 2:24
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
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I repeat this again: I am NOT protestant. Many protestants and Romans are Christians like me, and they are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
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YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

I repeat this again: I am NOT protestant. Many protestants and Romans are Christians like me, and they are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
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The perspective that you were arguing from appeared that way.

James 2:24
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
 
QUOTE=Pax]exrc
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,
I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier in that I thought you had not been properly discipled in your youth. I can no longer attribute your issues to that assumption alone after reading your post. There is nothing in Catholic teaching that supports the claims you just made. Morevover, Catholics on this thread have been telling you that your claim is erroneous and yet you persist.
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Have you read post 433 by YAQUBOS yet? If not you can scold him also.

Yes, I’m a very bad boy , I should have just believed you. What was I thinking?
This kind of thing is not simply born of ignorance. There is something a lot deeper at the core of your issues with the Church
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Well, maybe the fact that my Mom+Dad are still rc, and believe they are getting to heaven solely because their good deeds out weigh their bad deeds, has a little to do with it. There they go, to mass every Sunday like good little rc’s. Hoping that when they die everything will be o.k. I shudder to think of that day when they try to use that one on our Lord!
I will repeat the Catholic teaching on salvation one more time for your benefit. "We are saved by grace alone through the merits of Jesus Christ, by faith and works but not by "faith alone."
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When God given faith is used as means to gradually become justified, it becomes a work. Therefore your salvation becomes a wage, and is earned. Grace (the gift) is then nullified . Once you pay for something, even a penny, you have earned it. And that is something to boast about.

faith (works)+sacramental(works)+ good (works)= catholic salvation

No matter how you look at it, its works!

For the chistian however, he accepts the FREE GIFT!!! by true saving faith ALONE! He works hard to please God because he loves God!
Please note Dan, that everything is dependent on God’s grace and the merits of Jesus Christ.
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Amen! Now believe it.
Our works are the crowning of the works of the Father’s hands in our hearts by the power of His grace.
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Amen!
Now please, once and for all drop the ridiculous claims that you make concerning Catholic teaching. Consider yourself informed and do not persist in distorting the facts and denigrating the truth
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.Isn’t a debate forum about debate?

In love ,exrc!
 
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YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

It’s not so simple. For according to them, the value of some works can be multiplied because they are done in good faith and because of the grace of God.
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Cite me
Muslims believe that you are saved because God gives you that grace, and because you respond to that grace by believing and doing good deeds. Isn’t this what you believe?
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Yes. But it needs to be add that the respond to the grace is also helped by God’s grace. Because without the help of grace human can not respond to that grace.

However I do not believe that this is what Moslem believes. So, again, cite me.
By the way: Muslims believe that Hell is not eternal for all humans. Some can go there and purge their sins, and then go again to heaven… Does this look like Purgatory?..
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No. Purgatory can not relieves you of Mortal sins.

Should I be worry because the Moslem faith is similiar to Catholic Faith? No, because:
  1. I’'m pretty sure that you have misinterpreted Moslem understanding
  2. Moslem is a religion that is mixed of Catholicism (because alll Christianity before the dreaded Protestantism is Catholicism. Christianity = Catholicism), Judaism and Paganism.
 
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exrc:
,

Well, maybe the fact that my Mom+Dad are still rc, and believe they are getting to heaven solely because their good deeds out weigh their bad deeds, has a little to do with it. There they go, to mass every Sunday like good little rc’s. Hoping that when they die everything will be o.k. I shudder to think of that day when they try to use that one on our Lord!
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If this is what your parents really believe, then they have been misguided in the teachings of the Church. Tell them to log on to these forums to correct their understanding of what the CC REALLY teaches or better yet, give them a copy of the Catholic Catechism and have them read it. Pick up a copy for yourself while you’re at it.
 
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mrS4ntA:
It is decided by God’s grace, which is unmerited. But still, that DOESN’T TAKE OUR FREE WILL
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No,catholic grace IS merited 2027ccc.

Grace is not merited, so stop calling it Grace.

An unearned gift is not earned.

A gift becomes a wage if earned.

.
For that grace to work within us, we have to actively receive, and embrace, it!
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I agree
Are you saying that Christ, by His Passion on the Cross, has turned Man into fleshy robots, unable to reject or receive His salvific work?
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No,I am understanding you, but you are not understanding me.

I compete with Paul for being the chief of sinners. I can not last a second on this earth without sinning. Thank God the Holy Spirit lets me know that. I can do nothing good apart from God.

I do good things because I am alive already.

I don’t do good things to become alive.

dead people can not do good things.

Two men are washing the same floor, the 1st man says in his heart " I hope by this deed will make me more righteous in Gods eyes". The first man is wicked!

The second man says in his heart " Father with my love I do this for you" This man does good because knows he already has life.
The Catholic teachings on “works” is therefore much, much different than the self-merited “works” that Islam teaches (it’s an ancient heresy the Church has rooted out, by the way). So there… stop putting words in our mouths. :mad:
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Keep reading YAQUBOS and bengs exchange , you,ll change your mind!

In love ,exrc
 
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YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!
It IS correct even if I don’t understand it! The Truth of God doesn’t depend of humans like me.
In Love,
Yaqubos†
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Et cum spiritu tuo.
If several people believe that they are led by the Holy Spirit to correct understanding, but they contradict one another, how does one know which is truely the correct understanding?

Your brother in Christ.
 
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YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

Look what the Qur’an says:

“Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.” ( 1:6-7 )

“But ye turned back thereafter: Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of Allah to you, ye had surely been among the lost.” ( 2:64 )

“O ye of Faith! Say not (to the Messenger) words of ambiguous import, but words of respect; and hearken (to him): To those without Faith is a grievous punishment. It is never the wish of those without Faith among the People of the Book, nor of the Pagans, that anything good should come down to you from your Lord. But Allah will choose for His special Mercy whom He will - for Allah is Lord of grace abounding.” ( 2:104-105 )

“To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward.” ( 5:9 )

If you read Arabic, I would quote them in Arabic, because that would be clearer ( translation is not exactly what is said in the verse ).
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Do find discussion about salvation or elligibility for entrance to Heaven from a credible Moslem scholars. The verses are sufficient for now.
You say Catholicism teaches Salvation by grace alone, and yet you agree with Muslims about the fact that you are saved by faith AND works, i.e. you have LIFE by faith and works,
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Yes, we are saved by grace alone. But we are saved by grace that is merited by Christ, not so with Moslem.

And this grace are the thing that compells as to have faith and do work.
and you agree with them that you are judged according to your works.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
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Of course, because the Bible said so.

Romans 2:5-10
5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the* just judgment of God: 6 Who will render to every man according to his works**. 7 To them indeed** who, according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life**: 8 But to them that are contentious and who obey not the truth but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. 9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil: of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. 10 But glory and honour and peace to every one that worketh good: to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.*

These verses destroy your notion that judgment according to work is for the wicked only.
 
Enthusiastic Faith Alone Is Not EnoughPope John Paul II*Holy Father highlights need for solid, comprehensive formation in Message to Catholic charismatics

“The enthusiastic faith which enlivens your communities is a great enrichment, but it is not enough. It must be accompanied by a Christian formation which is solid, comprehensive and faithful to the Church’s Magisterium”, the Holy Father said in a Message to the Catholic Fraternity of Charismatic Covenant Communities and Fellowships, who were holding their eighth international meeting in Rome. The Pope stated that to mature in faith, it is necessary to grow in knowledge of its truths. “If this does not happen, there is a danger of superficiality, extreme subjectivism and illusion. The new *Catechism of the Catholic Church *should become for every Christian … a constant reference-point”. Here is the text of the Holy Father’s Message, which was written in English and dated 1 June.
 
YAQUOBOS, Dan

Its very simple.

The greatest commandment Jesus gave man was to love God.

Grace (God’s Love for you) is the starting point, and from that Grace we can have faith to believe in God (we know how to love God and our neighbor because we believe the Word of God) But, the greatest commandment, Love, implies action (faith + works)

Faith alone is not enough. Faith alone is dead. James 2:24 in the Bible. We NEED Love!
 
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exrc:
No,catholic grace IS merited 2027ccc.

Grace is not merited, so stop calling it Grace.

An unearned gift is not earned.

A gift becomes a wage if earned.

…
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Would you stop putting words in our mouths? 😦

You keep attacking what you think is the Catholic Faith. Need I cite again the quotes I gave you from the cathecism? What you are attacking is not our Catholic faith.
 
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YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

I repeat this again: I am NOT protestant. Many protestants and Romans are Christians like me, and they are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
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Yaq, are you from episcopal church ?
 
Creation is a grace, (natural grace) it is unmerited. How can catholics merit creation itself? You have no response so dont even try. how can a catholic merit his own creation. You anti-catholics have no idea about what grace is. We all have natural grace, who doesnt? It cannot be merited. Actual, santifying grace come with baptism, unmerited, a free gift, through water and spirit. You have no argument against the catholic dogma, only your misconceptions of it.
 
exrc,

Okay, I will do as you ask and scold Yaqubos before returning to disciplining you (as if I could actually accomplish such a thing). LOL!!!

Yaquobos,

You have made quite a production out of the similarities between Catholic teaching and Islam as you understand them. While I know something of Islam I do not pretend to have any real expertise.

I will point out a couple of things, however, that you should keep in mind. Islam does not predate Judaism or Catholic Christianity, but it does predate Protestantism. Mohammed borrowed heavily from both Judaism and Christianity. His borrowing explains similarities and common ground. It is a serious misrepresentation to say that Catholics believe as Muslims believe. It would, on the other hand, be fair to say that Islam shares certain things with Christianity because it borrows from it.

Islam does not borrow from Protestantism because it predates Protestantism. Therefore, in one very limited sense, Islam, aside from its many errors, actually validates Catholic Christianity. It does so because it may give some testimony as to what authentic Christianity is based on what it borrowed from that true set of teachings. This cannot be said for Protestant teachings which never existed prior to the reformation.

exrc,

I have to eat my dinner so I will address your points upon my return. Until then, I’ll will simply say a prayer for you as my brother in Christ Jesus.
 
  1. christ merited our redemption
  2. Mary as (THE mother of GOD) I cant spell the greek word
 
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