The reason why young men are leaving the church

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Good point.

And why is there such a sharp rise in divorce?

Bad formation in terms of learning deep down what love is: Love is self-gift, self-emptying.

And the self-esteem, me-time, movement has, in my opinion, contributed greatly to a self-focused, self-ish generation that doesn’t particularly want to self-empty, unless there is a substantial pay back for that self-emptying.

And that’s not the spirit of self-emptying that Jesus taught us from the cross.

This is a 50 year problem in the making.
 
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Edward_H said:
I have a radical view on this…it’s men’s own fault, we’ve shirked our role in the family, preferring to sleep in, to not engaging “Father so and so” when he runs off the reservation on some homily topic, to not setting a sturdier example to his family by frequently and cheerfully going to confession…“Now children remember the heroic rule…“worst first”…tell God through the priest your worst sins first, and get them out of the way”.
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I agree. But it is also more the older and past generations fault. This problem is not new. And each successive generation is in some ways less culpable because they were raised by a generation that ruined it. Or said another way, masculinity at this point has been so reviled and suppressed it can hardly be surprising that current generations avoid it.
 
Edward_H said:
I had a conversation with a slightly younger acquaintance of mine…he was commiserating that is daughter doesn’t dress appropriately for Mass. I said: “have you discussed this with your wife? Have you made quiet but firm corrections to your daughter? Does your wife support your position?”

3 Nos.

I told him…this is squarely your fault and no one else’s. You need a plan to get back in saddle, quick. He looked at me like “how do I escape”.
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No, it isn’t purely his fault. A father is not the head of the household anymore. The apparatus of the state and its legal system have robbed him of this. He is impotent now.
 
Good points. We can begin again with God, right now, right where we are. He owns the results. We simply must keep saying Yes. We can change the soft self-seeking tone right around us, beginning with ourselves.

As St Josemaria said: “Nunc Coepi” (Now I begin).

His grace is sufficient, we simply need to start saying Yes more decisively, more eagerly, more trustingly, more cheerfully. Imperceptibly the Holy Spirit will begin to change the soft tone around us. And the word will take on what St Paul spoke about the “bonus odor” of Christ.

That’s the great thing about the Church…beginning again is quite easy!
 
The father the head of the household to be sure…don’t care what Nancy Pelosi says.

We can throw up our hands and let the devil suggest excuses or we can begin where we are.
 
The father ought to be, but he isn’t. He literally doesn’t have the authority. It has been stripped from him. You can’t be the head without authority. The husband can and should lead but ultimately he doesn’t have the authority necessary for his role.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
women would sit on one side and men on the other .
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Women and men segregated at Mass, yes. But “sitting”? I don’t think so! It was standing or kneeling only in most churches, prior to the Protestant Reformation. It was only when the sermon replaced the liturgy as the main feature of worship that preachers found it helpful to install pews in churches to keep their captive audience quiet.
 
exnihilo said:
The father ought to be, but he isn’t. He literally doesn’t have the authority. It has been stripped from him. You can’t be the head without authority. The husband can and should lead but ultimately he doesn’t have the authority necessary for his role.
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And if I see fathers doing a great job being fathers, that must just be a figment of my imagination.

It’s not actually happening–there are no good fathers, because it’s impossible.
 
Gallons of ink have gone into this, or I guess it is gallons of 1s and 0s for modern blogs.

Men leave the Church because they have never had a conversion experience or because their relationship with Christ was neglected and it withered.

We don’t pray, we don’t read Scripture, we don’t “delight ourselves in the Lord”, we see religion as something one does on Sunday IF we are not busy with other things.

Where a man’s treasure is, there will his heart be. Faith is no longer a treasure.

Converting the baptized is our call.
 
Fathers may be doing a good job but no father in the US has the authority necessary for the role of head of the household. That authority and role has been taken from him.
 
It’s very simple. Feminized, yes…although perhaps that is not the correct term.
As the sacrificial aspect had been downplayed over the last 50+ years, men are not as challenged by, or drawn to, the new mass. As the celebratory aspect has been emphasized over the last 50+ years, women are more drawn to, and “included” in the new mass.
Also…more talking during the new mass, or “dialogue” if you will…tends to appeal more to women.
 
I am 40.

I think it has more to do with-

Unbelief

Wanting to do what one wants

Avoiding inward reflection

One could say this about either of the sexes
 
I hear you…but leadership is often the result of a decision to lead even without authority.

We are children of God, we are baptized/confirmed, we have everything we need in order to pursue the greatest good.

Consider the parable of the talents or the paralytic man who answered Jesus’s question about why he couldn’t get into to the pool at Bethesda, St John 5.

How do we give in to our circumstances, where do we point to our past, our limitations, how do we let circumstances paralyze us from good action?

Not preaching, just thinking aloud.
 
exnihilo said:
No, it isn’t purely his fault. A father is not the head of the household anymore. The apparatus of the state and its legal system have robbed him of this. He is impotent now.
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Fathers have not been robbed of their ability to tell their daughters to dress better.
 
Edward_H said:
I hear you…but leadership is often the result of a decision to lead even without authority.
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One can certainly act as a leader.
angel12 said:
Fathers have not been robbed of their ability to tell their daughters to dress better.
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Not yet, but give it time. The father can only ask his daughter to dress better. He can’t really tell her anymore. I draw a distinction between the two.
 
exnihilo said:
Not yet, but give it time. The father can only ask his daughter to dress better. He can’t really tell her anymore. I draw a distinction between the two.
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He can’t tell her?

When you have minor children under your roof, you have a lot of latitude as to what you can do, even today.

I would agree with you if you said that he wasn’t legally allowed to beat her until she threw away her tube tops (if anybody today wears those), but boohoo, I guess we parents will just have to limp on without the legal presumption that we can slap our teen children around.

(I somehow have a modestly dressed 15-year-old daughter without beating her. This must be some sort of miracle.)
 
… “there is a real problem with boys being more likely to be disengaged from education and this too seems to start at a very young age. I wonder if something similar is going on at church. …”

I think that Confused Lucy has put her finger exactly on the “problem” or the issue.

In the United States, women have higher educational outcomes than men. Men may be more technically inclined than women … and indeed women only account for about 20% of engineering college degrees.

But in the religious area, which is more liberal arts than technical [or STEM], there is more inclination for women to participate than for males to participate.

And by extension, men may be less inclined to study religion in general … the Latin and Greek and Hebrew roots of Catholicism, for example. Or the current discussions regarding the various “theological” discussions such as the detailed Catechism of the Catholic Church … versus the previously used “abridged” or abbreviated “Baltimore Catechism”, which was easy by comparison and which was basically thrown out owing to the accusation that it encouraged “rote memorization”, which the men would and could participate in … but that is now thrown out.

So, yes, boys ARE being more likely to be disengaged from the form of education needed to know what it is that the Church teaches and what exactly is going on in the structure of the Mass.

I recommend two books by Karl Keating: “What Catholics Really Believe” [52 Answers To Common Misconceptions About the Catholic Faith], which boils it down. And “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” which demonstrates some of the controversies.

My book recommendations also mean that the young men need to READ.
 
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“there is a real problem with boys being more likely to be disengaged from education and this too seems to start at a very young age. I wonder if something similar is going on at church. …”

MonteRCMS
And by extension, men may be less inclined to study religion in general…

I agree with the points referred here. One is disengagement with education, and in particular with the religious matters.
At the same time i understand that there is DEFINITELY a change in the trend in several pockets of the catholic world.
It all depends upon the media hype. If cricket is offered as topic to discuss, the mass in the society devour it. If football is offered, they gulp it in. If cinema is offered, they fall for that. If scientific curious matters are offered, they devour it.
The same with religious matters. The society, has to project what is ESSENTIAL, which we CONVINCED Catholics boastfully proclaim, that it is FAITH.
Merely because, one has experienced it in his day to day life. That the Lord is doing is wonders to even to the sinful fellow like me.
This has to be placed , offered to the young men too in the appropriate platform.
The church has the primary privileged role to play,
To baptize and TEACH.
Catechism has to be presented to the youth in an appropriate manner.
 
Continuing on the thread,
The baptized catholic children go for Confession, then for the Communion, and the Confirmation. These sacraments of initiation once obtained, the children, who have become kids, often grown into the their teenage, sometimes in their adolescence think that they are done with LEARNING FAITH.
This is the problem. As a young boy, I have failed in the FOURTH GRADE in my catechism class. I remained there.
Later when i finished my degree, then i finished my post-graduation i felt the dryness. Was it worth all the trouble.
In my work place, one elderly professional commented,
When one obtain a DEGREE one is qualified to pursue learning by himself. May be one can go for MASTERS or DOCTORATE.
When i consider the parallel in religious matters, i am convinced, that when a Christian is CONFIRMED, he is qualified to pursue further the LEARNING OF FAITH.
But the general mood prevailing in the church, is that after, CONFIRMATION, one GIVES UP FURTHER LEARNING OF FAITH MATTERS.

This is deplorable. One denies oneself of the joy of entering into the living relationship with the Lord and his people of God in DIALOGUE. The youth enter into the phase of being MUTE SPECTATORS of the happenings in the church.
Then they confront the church , when they are ready, (???) for marriage.

The they , some of them, dust their bibles, catechism books, recall the CREED.
 
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