The Slaughtering of Animals in Factories. Moral dilemmas in the modern world

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Sean Boyle:
If you are so concerned with how animals are killed and the life they lead before they are killed for food, then HUNT them! Kill them yourself.

You will never gain an apprecation for the animal we eat and use until you see to completion the whole ugly but necessary process; The life and death of an animals are necessary so you and your family can be fed and clothed.

The people that grow our food and raise our meat, the family farms are fully aware of this. They hunt, they kill the animals with the least amount of suffering to the animal. They do not waste. They respect the sacrifices made by the animals as part of Gods plan.

Is it better to paid someone else to do your killing for you? Wrapping the meat in the clean packages that you buy in the store. All so you don’t have to get your hands bloody. The ethical and moral answer is NO. Paying someone to do your dirty work is a greater afront to God and than doing it youself.

Not eating meat involves the death of living, breathing organisms, plant matter. Does a plant react when its been sheared from its root or stem. In its life, some plants will send up new shoots before a main plant dies. How does it know? The answer is that a plant is alive just as animals are. Should plants be sacrificed before animals?

God put both on the earth to FEED us! We should never take anything for granted. And Respect everything. Use the resources that we were given for the intended purposes.
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I love this post … I think you may be on to something. Those who live in our sterilized culture are ill fit to even begin to discuss this issue until they decide that they are going to catch and kill their own food and process the same.
 
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springbreeze:
Dear friend

It’s St Thomas’ theory and it is not Gospel, it is not part of the deposit of faith and has not been declared doctrine. It’s a theory and no-one should get too carried away with theories as to base their life on them!

Pope John Paul II had theories on animals, he said they had souls and if you like I’ll find those theories out for you, he’s up for being a beatified also and he’ll be a 20th century Saint. How do you answer about theories now?

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
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The Summa is far from Theory it is the Theology of the Church as defined in the encyclical “Aeterni Patris.” The propositions that JPII put forth are not in contradiction with what St. Thomas stated most specifically because JPII is and was a Thomist. Just because a thing has a soul does not mean that it goes to heaven as that is proper to the nature of an immortal soul as opposed to a sensable or vegitative soul.
 
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mosher:
I love this post … I think you may be on to something. Those who live in our sterilized culture are ill fit to even begin to discuss this issue until they decide that they are going to catch and kill their own food and process the same.
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I wonder how many people here have ever killed and dressed out a deer, or scraped a hog?
 
vern humphrey:
I wonder how many people here have ever killed and dressed out a deer, or scraped a hog?
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Usually the same people who advocate animal rights issues would never get their hands that dirty. Maybe more people should be “deep in the Ozarks” or out looking for the “Great White Buffalo”
 
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mosher:
Usually the same people who advocate animal rights issues would never get their hands that dirty. Maybe more people should be “deep in the Ozarks” or out looking for the “Great White Buffalo”
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I had someone on another forum lecture me on how when Global Warming comes, we’ll have to live on “Native plants and introduced weeds” and we better start learning how.

A little gentle probing revealed a city dweller who didn’t have so much as a tomato plant in a window box.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
vern humphrey said:
“Native plants and introduced weeds”
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Dandelions and Burdock, wonderful.:rolleyes: At least you can feed them to a rabbit and then eat the rabbit, unless the rabbit is too clever for that.

Oh, wait…Walnuts are yummy and native! Okay, I’m done being silly now, I hope. :o

To any child reading this: do NOT eat the dandelion greens in the lawn! They may have poison sprayed on them!
 
Vern,
That is true, to get the food to the masses is to take care of the people preventing it.🙂
 
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Fox:
I grow vegetables. 😉
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I have a friend that claims that it is an act of pure cruelty to eat veggies and the reason is that at least the animals have the ability to get away.
 
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mosher:
Usually the same people who advocate animal rights issues would never get their hands that dirty. Maybe more people should be “deep in the Ozarks” or out looking for the “Great White Buffalo”
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I am “deep in the Ozarks,” thanks! Your point can be taken many ways, how many pro-lifers really get out and do something to fight abortion? If someone isn’t actively out fighting for their cause, does their opinion not count?
 
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mosher:
The Summa is far from Theory it is the Theology of the Church as defined in the encyclical “Aeterni Patris.” The propositions that JPII put forth are not in contradiction with what St. Thomas stated most specifically because JPII is and was a Thomist. Just because a thing has a soul does not mean that it goes to heaven as that is proper to the nature of an immortal soul as opposed to a sensable or vegitative soul.
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Dear friend

And just because an animal has a non-spiritual soul does not mean it will not go to heaven either and none among you can prove or conclude that it will not ever be the case that an animal may enjoy eternal life.

I think there is a grave danger in a world which cannot even respect human life to speak of animals in such a fashion as they are currently being spoken about. It leads to the presumption we can deal with them just as we like because it is theorised that they will not live after death, that their lives are even more worthless than the human life we already treat as expendable. I know that the Church states that animals should be treated well with kindness and love because they are our smaller bretheren, but this fact is not sinking home with many people, they look to the fact that animal souls are non-spiritual and therefore excuse their behaviour towards them not even wanting to realise that they way we treat animals has an effect on nature by and large and on humanity as well as forgetting that they will have to give account of their treatment of animals to the Lord.

The day of my judgement scares the life out of me, I don’t think it would be just of me to stand before Jesus and tell Him because there was a theory about animals which stated they couldn’t live after death I decided in my life on earth to use them without regard and over-eat them, treat them any old way because they are simply there for our enjoyment however we choose to define that on a personal level. That is not just and never will be. Perhaps then to my surprise I see a countless number of lambs before my eyes, enjoying eternal life, whilst I then in turn will not because I was not a good and faithful servant, not a kindly steward of God’s Creation.

No person can look at the one hand without noticing the other, if they do they are merely desiring to make the rules fit their own agenda and not the Truth.

To treat life with disrespect, even the life taken so that we may eat, is a grave breach of stewardship. It is from this blatant disregard for life that the Culture of Death has flourished.

Satan is always in the details.

There is nothing anyone can say to me that proves there are no animals in heaven, it’s something no-one knows and therefore if it is not known, it is and remains THEORY.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Pets in Heaven?

A question that comes up frequently is whether people will see their pets in heaven. Now the Catechism of the Catholic Church does not directly address this question. But it does hold principles which lead us in the direction of an answer.

One principle is that all living things have a soul. Here soul is defined as what makes an organic body live. Now when any living thing dies, its soul is separated from its body. In the case of plants and animals the soul goes out of existence. But in the case of man, the soul remains in existence because it is a spiritual or immaterial thing. Consequently, it differs from the souls of animals in two important respects. First, it is the seat of intelligence or reason. For this reason a man is held responsible for his actions in a way that animals are not. Secondly, the soul is immortal. A thing which has no physical parts cannot fall apart or be poisoned or be crushed or be put out of existence. For this reason the souls of the saved will always be aware of themselves as enjoying the vision of God for all eternity. This enjoyment will be the result of having chosen to act on earth in such a way that one did the will of God rather than one’s own will. And the souls of the damned will be aware of themselves as never attaining this vision of God because they have shown by their lives on earth that they did not wish this vision but instead preferred their own will.

In the light of this essential difference between human beings and animals, it would seem that we would not see the souls of our pets in heaven for the simple reason that they do not have immortal souls and are not responsible for their actions. They do not have the intelligence which allows them to choose either God’s will or their own will. There is, then, an incomparable distance, say, between the soul of the sorriest human being who ever lived and the most noble brute animal that ever walked the earth.

Now a child might be heartbroken at the thought that he will never see his pet again. He cannot yet understand this explanation about the difference between the human and the animal soul. I suppose that one could tell the child that when he hopefully gets to heaven, he could ask God to see his old pets if he still wished to. There would be no harm in that. For we know that when a person finally sees God, he will not be concerned with seeing old pets or favorite places but rather will be captured in the complete fulfillment of the joy of which old pets and favorite places are but little signs. We adults know that, even if the child does not.
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            For more information on how the Church sees               animals in the lives of human beings, check the *Catechism of the               Catholic Church* 2415-2418. You will learn, for example, that the Church, while it condemns cruelty to animals as an offense against the dignity of man, allow experiments on animals if done in a reasonable way. Again, you will learn of the tremendous difference that the Church sees between the lowliest of human beings and the most noble of the animals. It will allow animals to be used for food or clothing, but will defend the right of an innocent human being to live against Kings and Nations. The Church will demand that animals be respected as part of creation while at the same time insisting that the dignity owed a human being should never be given to an animal.
ewtn.com/expert/answers/pets_in_heaven.htm
 
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aurora77:
I am “deep in the Ozarks,” thanks! Your point can be taken many ways, how many pro-lifers really get out and do something to fight abortion? If someone isn’t actively out fighting for their cause, does their opinion not count?
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My point is not about experience but rather it is about a hypocracy.
 
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springbreeze:
Dear friend

And just because an animal has a non-spiritual soul does not mean it will not go to heaven either and none among you can prove or conclude that it will not ever be the case that an animal may enjoy eternal life.

I think there is a grave danger in a world which cannot even respect human life to speak of animals in such a fashion as they are currently being spoken about. It leads to the presumption we can deal with them just as we like because it is theorised that they will not live after death, that their lives are even more worthless than the human life we already treat as expendable. I know that the Church states that animals should be treated well with kindness and love because they are our smaller bretheren, but this fact is not sinking home with many people, they look to the fact that animal souls are non-spiritual and therefore excuse their behaviour towards them not even wanting to realise that they way we treat animals has an effect on nature by and large and on humanity as well as forgetting that they will have to give account of their treatment of animals to the Lord.

The day of my judgement scares the life out of me, I don’t think it would be just of me to stand before Jesus and tell Him because there was a theory about animals which stated they couldn’t live after death I decided in my life on earth to use them without regard and over-eat them, treat them any old way because they are simply there for our enjoyment however we choose to define that on a personal level. That is not just and never will be. Perhaps then to my surprise I see a countless number of lambs before my eyes, enjoying eternal life, whilst I then in turn will not because I was not a good and faithful servant, not a kindly steward of God’s Creation.

No person can look at the one hand without noticing the other, if they do they are merely desiring to make the rules fit their own agenda and not the Truth.

To treat life with disrespect, even the life taken so that we may eat, is a grave breach of stewardship. It is from this blatant disregard for life that the Culture of Death has flourished.

Satan is always in the details.

There is nothing anyone can say to me that proves there are no animals in heaven, it’s something no-one knows and therefore if it is not known, it is and remains THEORY.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
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I find it amusing when a person equates the protection of human life and animal life and relating them both back to the culture of death. A person that does this has obviouly never lived in California where it is a felony to harm turtle eggs but it is ok to kill a baby.

As far as animals not being in heaven St. Thomas does a very good job of decutively proving it:

newadvent.org/summa/200108.htm

and even clearer:

newadvent.org/summa/509105.htm
 
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mosher:
I find it amusing when a person equates the protection of human life and animal life and relating them both back to the culture of death. A person that does this has obviouly never lived in California where it is a felony to harm turtle eggs but it is ok to kill a baby.

As far as animals not being in heaven St. Thomas does a very good job of decutively proving it:

newadvent.org/summa/200108.htm

and even clearer:

newadvent.org/summa/509105.htm
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Dear friend

I don’t find anything about this amusing, why do you find any of this amusing at all?

Why can’t you allow someone to hold an opinion contrary to yours of which yours is based on a theory after all? Do you think I am stupid I need to you to underline and labour your point to me?

I don’t accept what you say and it is as simple as that. I don’t accept it because I don’t see as human theory can ever restrict God’s desire to Create and Re-create at will.

Your theory does not excuse mankind from wilful misuse or abuse of animal life and of all creation. If you cannot see the pattern between how animals have and are been treated and how now we are attempting to treat humans, then who am I to point it out to you?

Was not the Garden of Eden in full communion with God and were there not animals there? Have you ever considered that animals need not worship because they cannot offend God and as such will come into heaven as part of their created being anyway and it is only humans (after the fall) as a higher created creature who are capable of sinning and therefore must earn their salvation, in, by and through Christ Jesus.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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mosher:
My point is not about experience but rather it is about a hypocracy.
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So, unless I go kill an animal and eat it, I can’t understand animal rights/welfare?
 
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aurora77:
So, unless I go kill an animal and eat it, I can’t understand animal rights/welfare?
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I think if you had to produce your own food, you’d soon have a different view of “animal rights.”
 
vern humphrey:
I think if you had to produce your own food, you’d soon have a different view of “animal rights.”
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Do you?

Well, the fact of the matter is, pretty much anyone who has access to this forum doesn’t have much need to produce their own food. Modern U.S. society is such that we have many more choices available to us in the past, we don’t have to “dress out deer or scrape a hog.” People choose to do those things. I’ve never hunted, I’ve always been revolted by the idea, unless someone has no alternative to feed themselves or their families. We make moral judgements all the time without first hand knowledge, why is the animal welfare issue any different? Do we have to have a same-sex relationship before we’re qualified to discuss the morality of homosexuality? Do I have to kill a person before I can decide whether murder is OK or not? Just because I’ve never been an unwed teenage mother doesn’t mean I can’t form an opinion on abortion or adoption. And, before someone gets high and mighty on me, I’m in no way saying animals and humans are equal. I just believe that the way we genetically manipulate and abominally treat these animals is a terrible thing.
 
What is wrong with you people? They are animals!!! They have sexual relations on thre front lawn!!! Name one place in Catholic Tradition where it is taught that animals go to heaven or that they have rights!!!
 
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