The Stunning Biggotry on this Board

[dolphinlove]

Please quote the verse of the Qur’an that says this, or retract this comment.

There was a whole thread discussed on this, not sure where it is, but if you do a search, im sure you will find it.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

By this line of logic you would claim that the American Revolution was a Christian endeavor, since the Declaration of Independence makes more than one reference to God and the God-given rights of a free nation.

It was in a sense, the vast majority of the soldiers were Christians, religious figures etc provided religious justification etc, but in a sense you are proving my point, simply because something is cloaked in religious language, and carried out by a religious group, does not mean that religion was the cause or true, primary motivation of that movement.

The riots in France were Muslims furious first over the Danish cartoons, then furious about two stupid teenagers getting hit by a car, then furious about being furious. The entire time they could be heard chanting Islamic slogans. I would be surprised if you honestly didn’t know about any of this.

Yes, however the Balkins was a powerkeg before that Serbian spark, the riots in France were put in religious language, but look at the actual rioters, mainly young men, young men from a ghetto like neighborhood with high unemployment and general economic and social dissatification.

youtube.com/watch?v=mWcH5sDHzPQ

Okay, but I’m still not sure what evangelizing Christians has to do with anything. Perhaps you could explain in greater detail?

I said you needed to distinguish what some set of beleifs beloning more or less to a school of thought named Islam dictates, and the actual behavior and beleifs of individuals, simply because the Qua’ran, or some reading of the Qua’ran doen not creat a causal relationship between that dictate and the actual behavior of individual Muslims.

there is a distinct difference between claiming that the Qua’ran/tradition of Islamic thought proposes X, does not lead the the conclusion “Muslims do X”

The question of weather the Quaran abstraclt gves one the permission to lie and the claim that “Muslims think it’s fine to lie”

My counter point was to show that simply because there is 85% Christian polulation in the US, does not mean the behavior of 85% of the population mirrors the behaviors dictated by Christianity or a reading of Christianity.

My friend is a Muslim, if someone insults her religion she is offended, when it got hot in the classromm we were testing in last yeat she took off her Hajab

Different views? Could you give us an example? And of course a Muslim isn’t going to admit that they are lying for Islam. Come on! You’re really not helping your case here.

No your not, you’re creating an unfalsefiable argument.

“All Muslims beleive they can lie for Islam, if you haven’t seen this, or your experience says otherwise, or polls say otherwise that is fine as they are clearly lying”

Sunni, I beleive, generally say it is only morally accecptiable for the survival of the individual, I beleive the Shia take a more liberal view which the Sunni feel is wrong.

If the entire western Muslim population all behaves in a particular way, i.e. freaking out about cartoons but not freaking out about innocent deaths, then what other conclusion could we come to?

IF all Muslims behaved the same way, your case would have something like merit, however as all Muslims did not, it is just silly stearotyping.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Alright, I’ve spent way to much time here, I have a great deal of school work, so I think it would be best if I left for good.

I hope people will think carefully about these things, and read actual, acadamic, scientific texts and analysis rather than agenda driven books and websight.

Bye.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

I believe in one God the creator of all that is seen and unseen, and when I walk through town I see a part of God’s wonderful creation. I see people who could be atheists, Christians, Muslims, Hindu and all manor of people, all created by the same God.

I believe that we have a duty of care to look after all of God’s creation, and that comes down to looking after each other, despite all our differences.

The same God hears all our prayers. Despite all our differences there is the great need to understand we are all brothers and sisters together; all created by the same God.

God has to be greater than the sum of all the religions of the world put together, and I wonder how God copes with all our diversity.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[cyberjacques]

Please quote the verse of the Qur’an that says this, or retract this comment.

Sura 3:178
Let not the unbelievers think that We (Allah) prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them.

Sura 16: 106
Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

Surah 3: 28
Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

In case you need a more in-depth analysis, here is one:
Lying in Islam
And another:
Dishonesty in Islam

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

One should be nice, respectful and courteous if one want to win somebody for truth. In stead of winning over one may lose somebody for good.

Thanks

 

[Kadaveri]

Sura 3:178
Let not the unbelievers think that We (Allah) prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them.

That verse has nothing to do with your original comment, it’s talking about the Hereafter.

Sura 16: 106
Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

Saying the God’s wrath is upon those who renounce their faith (except for those who were forced to do so) is not “Muslims should lie to the infidels in order to lull them into a false sense of security, making them easier to conquer.”. Try again.

Surah 3: 28
Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

Again, being allowed to keep your faith secret so you’re not killed is not “Muslims should lie to the infidels in order to lull them into a false sense of security, making them easier to conquer.”

 

[AgnosTheist]

Yes, I find the Biggotry aghinst Muslims on this board just stunning, let’s take a look.

Why are you just complaining about Muslims? Mormons, Protestants, Orthodox & even the non-religious Atheists & Agnostics are getting their fair share of insults & bigotry.

 

[Harmony1988]

Yes, I find the Biggotry aghinst Muslims on this board just stunning, let’s take a look.

"And they sit like pigs gobbling up the welfare checks while breeding like pigs. "

" (yeah you can - it is just in no ‘western’ logical order - it is kludgy). Basically what they want to do is make sure to put their spin on it and to keep infidels ignorant of their true motives of wanting to either do one of 3 things to us: kill us, convert us or subjugate us"

“You have to understand the mind set of the Arabs. They will ask you for something until you give it to them. Their way of asking can be very annoying. Sometimes, people give in in order to get the monkey off their back. Unknowingly, that monkey gonna come back and bite you.”

“You stink of islam, run up your true flag”

“muslims are so concerned about their image - and do nothing about the masses of ‘moderates’ that do violence against non-muslims just because they are non-muslims.”

“This youtube video might be censored once the muslims find out that it is out there since they do not want people knowing about islam and prefer to send out the jihadists such as ‘sister amy’ who is spreading lies about islam.”

And that is a small sampling, my question is will Catholics condemn this biggotry?

A typical example of over-reacting, I have not ONCE come across such comments, and I have frequented all forums quite regularly. I admit there probably is muslim hatred in these forums, especially when the debates get a bit fired up, but not to the extent you proclaim it to be.

 

[ralphinal]

Why are you just complaining about Muslims? Mormons, Protestants, Orthodox & even the non-religious Atheists & Agnostics are getting their fair share of insults & bigotry.

Amen, but we Catholic catch some stuff, too. There is no reason to be a bigot, although some posters have lost loved ones in terrorist attacks. Those few have a basis. The biggest problem is that we treat Muslims like a homogenus group with regards to acceptance of violence against non-Muslims. They are not.

 

[cyberjacques]

Again, being allowed to keep your faith secret so you’re not killed is not “Muslims should lie to the infidels in order to lull them into a false sense of security, making them easier to conquer.”

There are more examples than just these, too many to fit in a forum post, which is why I included the links. They also include more than Koran passages, including what looks like Hadith entries, and examples of experts respected by Muslims, both modern and ancient, saying the same thing. The traditional interpretation of this subject hasn’t changed in 1400 years. Click on the links and read, if you are so sure I’m wrong.

 

[cyberjacques]

Amen, but we Catholic catch some stuff, too. There is no reason to be a bigot, although some posters have lost loved ones in terrorist attacks. Those few have a basis. The biggest problem is that we treat Muslims like a homogenus group with regards to acceptance of violence against non-Muslims. They are not.

I would argue that the biggest problem is that they haven’t done anything to suggest that they aren’t homogeneous in regards to violence. Like I said in previous posts, the carnage perpetrated by their fellow Muslims produces barely a ripple, but even a rumor of disrespect to Islam inspires righteous indignation ranging from protests with disturbing themes to violent and deadly riots.

Look up a concept called “takfeer”, or “takfir”. Interesting stuff.

 

[ralphinal]

I would argue that the biggest problem is that they haven’t done anything to suggest that they aren’t homogeneous in regards to violence. Like I said in previous posts, the carnage perpetrated by their fellow Muslims produces barely a ripple, but even a rumor of disrespect to Islam inspires righteous indignation ranging from protests with disturbing themes to violent and deadly riots.

Look up a concept called “takfeer”, or “takfir”. Interesting stuff.

These are points that we have discussed and will discuss again. We seem to never geta good answer from Muslims as to WHY more is not done to reign in their kooks.

 

[pismopal]

I condemn such bigotry and cannot imagine that such talk is every warranted and it is certainly not Christian. Frankly, I do not read such nonsense and when I get a whiff of it, I find another thread. Reading it, quoting and typing it are all down the same scandalous path of which I prefer to not partake.

Peace

Some things people say seem to be harsh to some and maybe spot on for others. This is why it is best to let people say what is on their mind and let the READER decide what is valuable and what is not. We are all different and with different life experiences…I do not and will not let someone else…that would be for example, you…decide what is bigotry or scandalous(or Christian). It is always wrong to use foul language in a public forum but short of that please allow me to be my own quality control officer. Thank you and goodnight…

 

[why_me]

I have also read bigoted posts against other christian faiths. It seems to be the nature of this section of the forum.

 

[Jerusha]

Well, at least I don’t use the word “apostasy” as frequently as you and your friends!!!

 

[motoeric]

My responses, although over the top at times, are not rude, childish and bigoted. I

You misunderstood me. I probably expressed myself poorly. I wasn’t saying that YOU were behaving in that fashion, I was saying that those that posted what the OP quoted were.

If anything (and this is most likely a too strident way of putting it), I was decrying your lack of interest in protesting THEIR comments because you had received negative comments about Catholicism (whether in public or pm).

Eric

 

[Mirdath]

These are points that we have discussed and will discuss again. We seem to never geta good answer from Muslims as to WHY more is not done to reign in their kooks.

I know I’ve seen it answered before, but it bears repeating: there’s no central authority in Islam (and I am not sure if the religion holds that you are to be your brother’s keeper). I’m sure you don’t hold yourself personally responsible for not keeping a leash on Protestant kooks.

Anyway, I agree that the board could stand to be much nicer to all faiths and lacks thereof, but it does seem that Islam takes a wholly disproportionate amount of abuse. Most of the few Muslim regulars have long been doing a fine job upstaging everyone else in displaying Christlike humility and patience. The people – not just Catholics, it comes from every direction – who shower vitriol on them would do well to quiet down and learn a few things.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Anyway, I agree that the board could stand to be much nicer to all faiths and lacks thereof,

NO WAY! That means we’ll be getting a much higher rate of warnings & suspensions!

as it is, this board is already much more behaved than most of the boards youll find on the net.

Most of the few Muslim regulars have long been doing a fine job upstaging everyone else in displaying Christlike humility and patience.

As do the mormons, protestants & atheists, dont you think? Because this is a catholic forum, it appears that mods give catholics a little bit more freedom to offend non-catholics. in contrast to offending catholicism which is a strict no-no.

 

[ralphinal]

I know I’ve seen it answered before, but it bears repeating: there’s no central authority in Islam (and I am not sure if the religion holds that you are to be your brother’s keeper). I’m sure you don’t hold yourself personally responsible for not keeping a leash on Protestant kooks.

But our government tries to.

Anyway, I agree that the board could stand to be much nicer to all faiths and lacks thereof, but it does seem that Islam takes a wholly disproportionate amount of abuse. Most of the few Muslim regulars have long been doing a fine job upstaging everyone else in displaying Christlike humility and patience. The people – not just Catholics, it comes from every direction – who shower vitriol on them would do well to quiet down and learn a few things.

I agree