The term "Herd immunity" only refers to those who live. Please stop using it?

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vz71 said:
I don’t recall you making such observations when Fauci said he had taken a test the day before going without a mask at a ball game.
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Why should I? Dr. Fauci received no special dispensation from the rules. No one has cited any rule for outdoors that Fauci broke.
 
And if people die, it’s on them. They were never fit to begin with and only the fit survive.

How Darwinistic. From self-identified pro-lifers too.
 
vz71 said:
He cited a negative test he took the day before as adequate reason to know he was not a risk.
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He may have said that he was tested, but he did not offer that as a reason for being excused from any rule. I think you are making entirety too much about what I don’t say.
 
People online and in real life.

Especially people who don’t want to wear masks.
 
phil3 said:
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Sarcelle:
And if people die, it’s on them. They were never fit to begin with and only the fit survive.

How Darwinistic
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Who is saying this?
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It is implied by this post, this post, this post, and this post. And that is just in this one thread. The same idea has been expressed in other covid threads.
 
rosejmj said:
A vaccine would be wonderful. But we don’t know if one that is effective will ever come out and we can’t just shut the world down forever hoping one comes out.
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This is exactly the point. How long is it reasonable to continue the lockdown? It sounds like the virus isn’t going anywhere any time soon. Are we going to keep the offices closed, the churches closed, businesses either closed or operating at reduced capacity, no social gatherings, for years? At some point we have to resume normal life with this virus in our midst.
 
I suspect we’ll either find something within the next 6 months or find a good reason to believe that a vaccine won’t be viable anytime soon. Pray for the former, I would say, but if we find the latter out I think that would be a better time to reevaluate our position.
 
LisaB said:
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rosejmj:
A vaccine would be wonderful. But we don’t know if one that is effective will ever come out and we can’t just shut the world down forever hoping one comes out.
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This is exactly the point. How long is it reasonable to continue the lockdown? It sounds like the virus isn’t going anywhere any time soon. Are we going to keep the offices closed, the churches closed, businesses either closed or operating at reduced capacity, no social gatherings, for years? At some point we have to resume normal life with this virus in our midst.
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The lockdown has been a one size fits all program. The risk of serious harm is present for young adults, but wildly different than for a senior. Yet we treat them the same.

The auto plant is mostly robots, with human beings very far apart from human contact. We shut them down along with beauticians.
 
my daughter just had to get her dtap to get into nursing school, the doctor told her it has to be given every 10yrs and MMRs are not forever. It is completely different to get the disease and develop natural antibodys versus be vaccinated and use adjuvants to trick the immune system to mistake it for the real thing. The immune system reacts but God knows how.
 
i think it jumped to humans by deliberate research of inserting the virus into animals and combining adjuvants as in vaccines for some kind of research or experiment. We are never going to know how it was created for sure,
 
mary77 said:
The immune system reacts but God knows how.
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Well, the researchers know how it works, too. You’re right that the MMR isn’t forever for everyone. Some people as they get older don’t produce B and T cells in the numbers from their youth. They do remain somewhat resistant and many are completely resistant. Getting the actual disease does produce a stronger immune response. Stronger than what’s needed, actually. We have no need to produce an immune response that strongly and we’d introduce more side effects if we did. Adjuvants aren’t a dirty word. Nowadays, they are all just an aluminum salt and help to induce a strong response so that less antigen is needed. There are adjuvant free vaccines for young children or those allergic to them which is actually rare. Most reactions to vaccines, other than soreness at the injection site and aching are also rare and even those are mostly temporary. Can someone die? Of course but that’s extremely rare!

If you fear vaccines and want to feel justified in not getting one, there is plenty of questionable information that will make people feel better in not getting one. Just accept that you could be possibly harming society and move on. The best advice is to discuss all of this with your doctor.
 
Youre reading way to much between the lines. The facts are that people are going to catch this virus and die. Some people are going to catch it and recover. When you are looking at the numbers many of those that have died are compromised. I am one of those people that is compromised. I just avoid going away from my house. These are just facts with no emotions tied to them.
 
Though many do survive, what is overlooked, due to the problems of making categories, is the long-term effects of contracting the virus. I’ve been trying to find statistics on them but it’s a mess.
We know some who recover have reduced lung capacity and others unusual fatigue (many previously healthy younger people report this rather than the former) well after recovering from fever and persistent dry cough. This isn’t the flu or sniffles. Even if this number is relatively small, “herd immunity” doesn’t sound great.
 
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Herd immunity is a good strategy, once a vaccine is available. At the moment without a vaccine it is simply a matter of how many deaths are acceptable.
 
“Therefore I shouldn’t take any kind of basic precautions or do anything to minimize risk for myself or my fellow neighbors.”
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Quite a quote, it’s just that Nobody said that.

And, there aren’t only two choices. It’s not: A. Do nothing and be evil B. Do everything and be super awesome.

What this is about is correctly dismissing the emotional appeal so that we can rationally act as a society. Good policy is never made from emotional responses. We need to turn off our feelings and think about what is the best way to go forward. How does this virus work? Who does it affect? There’s nothing wrong with that, we as humans do that in our lives every day. Also, the science certainly often refutes the public claims of panic.

Much of the response by those who desire for fear and panic is to pretend that they are shocked that people die. Meanwhile, they go to work every day knowing that hundreds will die from driving on the way to work across the nation. Oddly, they spend their entire day acting shocked and morally lecturing about how those COVID deaths shouldnt’ happen at all, but yet can live just fine, not freak out, etc from other deaths that happen and are predicted to happen. What happened to a concern for life? Or is it just some life? The fact that there is such a double standard as far as how someone dies ensures that it’s not about the life, it’s political.

Most Americans are fine with social distancing measures. But we have to approach policy discussion on COVID knowing that there will be a certain amount of unavoidable death. Stop using it as some rhetorical weapon. You couldn’t have stopped it, nobody in power could’ve (besides the Chinese). Standing on graves is an awful, immoral rhetorical practice, meant to condemn and shame others. Don’t do it.
 
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What we have here is so much straw being used to build straw men that there is a danger of a straw shortage. Please leave some for the farm animals! And I don’t mean just you, Mister_Friscus. I mean both sides in this argument. If you trace backwards from this posting you can see that CTBcin used a straw man by exaggerating RhodesianSon’s point. But RhodesianSon’s posting was in turn a straw man starting with “Thinking we have the power to stop death from a naturally occurring organism…”.
 
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