The term "Herd immunity" only refers to those who live. Please stop using it?

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Those people are very, very few. Two groups are often cited as the ones who can’t get vaccinated:
  1. Those who have allergies. As far as I know the only allergy that can stop you from getting a vaccine is severe egg allergy, and that only applies to the few vaccines that have egg particles in them, namely the ones against influenza and yellow fever. None of them are mandated vaccines.
  2. People with immune deficiency. This mainly affects people who have AIDS or are in chemotherapy. The thing with immune deficiency, however, is that if you’re immune system is so fragile that you can’t tolerate vaccination, then you can hardly go to school or things like that anyway, since even a common cold can be devestating.
I might agree with vaccinations being mandated for those in public schools, as long as private school and homeschooling options are available. And again, if you don’t want your child to catch those diseases, get them vaccinated. That is what I intend to do.
 
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tuffsmurf said:
Those people are very, very few.
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Our society has made the decision that there are enough, and they can otherwise participate in society if these measures are taken. If you think the society has decided that wrongly, which of course is your right, you can try to change the societal decision through societal processes. But it is ultimately a society-wide decision, not an individual one. If someone wants to be a part of society, they have to obey the rules of that society.
 
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  1. The Gardisil vaccine. For HPV.
  2. Pro-Life Activities | USCCB
I recently saw a link listing which of the leading Covid vaccine candidates in development rely on abortion. I can’t find the link now, it was about half the potential vaccines.
 
But the thing is, a person who has such a severe immuneo deficincy can’t participate normally in society even if everyone else is vaccinated. A common cold could be devestating for them. So vaccines aren’t enabling people to participate in society who otherwise wouldn’t be able to do so.
 
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As I said, if you feel that strongly about it, make your case with the authorities and try to convince them that these people’s lives are not worth it. But don’t presume you can make that decision all on your own. It is a communal decision.
 
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I already live in a country without mandatory vaccinations. 95 % of children are vaccinated anyway. Medical decisions should always be made by the individual.
 
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I declined vaccination for both my daughter and son for this one.

I haven’t checked the numbers, but it seems like there are a lot more “standard” immunizations now than when I was a kid.
 
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Do you think people in other countries (without mandatory vaccinations) can go out in the public without pants on?
 
It both saddens and astonishes me that I have friends who still believe that Covid is “fake”, “just like a cold”, “no worse than any normal flu season”, and “a political ploy that will disappear after the November elections”. I’ve heard all of these explanations.

Yet, just in the circle of people I know, six have died from Covid.

I sincerely hope that it doesn’t take someone they love dying a painful, lonely, horrible death to get more people to believe in the reality and seriousness of this virus.

I saw a video where a man stated that a particular number of deaths would be acceptable to keep the economy going. Then that number of people started to walk around the corner…all HIS own family members. He then realized that, no, he didn’t want the particular number of deaths to keep the economy going to be from amongst HIS family, nor should they be from anyone else’s family.

It was a powerful video that I wish everyone could view and take to heart.
 
Peeps said:
My problem with the strategy is that it appears that becoming infected with the COVID-19 virus does NOT seem to confer immunity on patients, who have reported getting well, and then getting re-infected. I hope I am wrong about this, and perhaps others have read some papers
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The biggest issue seems to be the length of immunity. For how many months will people be protected after getting Covid and after receiving a vaccine?

Dr Chris Martenson has covered the issue in his podcasts, including various study results. The following notes from his clips are interesting.

Immunity: @33min with Sars1 most people lost neutralizing immunity by 5 yrs, those with a bad case still had antibodies 12 years later.
in contrast Tetanus shot–10 yrs
A cold infection can be a coronavirus. Adults get 2 -4 colds per year. Could Sars 2 be like that?
In Spain no widespread long term immunity. 14% of people who previously had antibodies were negative just weeks later.

Will this be like other coronaviruses that cause the common cold, recurring. Martenson disagrees with Harvard prof here .

Study: Coronavirus immunity short lasting. by Edridge et al. Netherlands.
35 years followup data of 10 people for seasonal coronaviruses. Even 1 year reinfections seen, in 6 months substantial reduction in antibodies.

Summer lull from the paper. beware of this Fall, especially if vitamin D deficient and in an election year : (

Paper on T Cells–long term memory for immune system. LeBert et al @1min
Memory T cells induced by previous pathogens can shape the susceptibility to and clinical severity of subsequent infections.
So maybe your T Cells recognize some aspect of SARS Cov 2 from previous coronavirus and so you do better than others.
Those who recovered from SARS1 had long lasting memory T cells 17 yrs later.
Exposure to betacoronavirus common cold may help against covid
Complex, so strengthen your “terrain,” especially vitamin D.
Some other similar coronaviruses are causes of the common cold.
Antibodies may drop in level within a few years, but memory T Cells have been detected 11 yrs after SARS infection. @21
ORF-1 region common among coronaviruses.

I bet the vaccine salesmen will be saying we need to get the vaccine every 6 months!
 
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Any organ transplant patient is also on immunosuppressive therapy. This is actually a large number and growing.

There are allergies beyond eggs that prohibit certain vaccines as well. While all these people total aren’t a majority or even close, they are a significant number. Now, we can also add in all the children of anti vaxxers…children that didn’t make that decision for themselves.
 
I forgot about the organ transplantation, but the point still stands: a person with such a fragile immune system can’t participate in regular group activities even if everyone else is vaccinated. Also, a chold who recently recieved a new organ most definitley won’t be attending school for several reasons.

What allergies beside egg allergy can prevent someone from getting vaccinated (and as I previously said, the egg allergy only prevents vaccine against flu and yellow fever, not any of the ”childhood diseases” vaccines)?
 
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tuffsmurf said:
What allergies beside egg allergy can prevent someone from getting vaccinated (
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Any ingredient in the vaccine that is a known allergy for the person. The adjuvants are various aluminum salts plus there albumin and other chemicals…some people are allergic to the preservatives used. The point is, there really are thousands of people that can not take some or all vaccines and they depend totally on the vaccinated to protect them.

And transplants have jobs they have to work in and lives they need to live just as much as the rest of us. It’s for the benefit of the entire community. We aren’t mandated to get the flu vaccine but if 80% of people got it yearly, the flu would only be a small percentage of the numbers we currently have! But, it’s not mandated. It’s a smart shot to get but it’s still your choice!
 
Vaccines usually contain so small amounts of the particles that even allergic people can take them. As far as I know it is only vaccines containing egg particles that have been known to cause anafylactic shock in people with allergies. Please provide a source if you believe otherwise.

People who recieve donated organs are only on immunosuppressive therapy for a while, not forever. And a person who has just recieved a new organ can’t work for a time for several reasons. It’s not like you get a new kidney and then leave the hospital two days later and go back to work.
 
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