The term "Herd immunity" only refers to those who live. Please stop using it?

[Pattylt]

People who recieve donated organs are only on immunosuppressive therapy for a while, not forever. And a person who has just recieved a new organ can’t work for a time for several reasons. It’s not like you get a new kidney and then leave the hospital two days later and go back to work.

My future son in law is a liver transplant. The immunosuppressive drugs he is on are for life as I believe all transplants are.
From my memory of immunology…it has been a while…those that have a severe reaction to an ingredient are told to avoid any amount of the allergen. Ask a person with a high gluten intolerance if they can tolerate small amounts, like in a low gluten Eucharist. Some can and some really can’t.

Plus, reactions will often increase the more you’re exposed. I can not take the tetanus vaccine any more. I went from a slight reaction to the next one being severe…if I took it again, it could kill me.

The point of all of this is that those that are able to take vaccines are smart to do so and, more important, it’s the charitable thing to do for your community. It really is more than just a personal decision.

 

[tuffsmurf]

Is your future son in law on such an intensive immunosuppressive therapy that he can never again take a vaccine? Gluten intolerance is not an allergy but an autoimmune disease. Some allergies are actually treated by exposing the person to small amounts of the allergen and so “teach” the body to tolerate it. That can never be done with gluten intolerance.
Tetanus is not spread through human to human-contact, so the number of vaccinated individuals doesn’t affect the likelyhood of someone getting it.

I am not against vaccines, I have been vaccinated and my children will be. But it shouldn’t be mandated.

 

[mary77]

i disagree with this theory completely. We do not play russian roulette with the brain of infants. More and more parents are choosing to delay delay delay vaccines, Many people are learning that aborted fetal cells are used in some of the vaccines, and that is a real issue for them. How many times has polio vaccine been changed and pertussis? research it! What is the source of aborted cells that are to this day used in MMR vaccines? research it and research actual family storys of permanent damage from their small childrens vaccines.

 

[Peeps]

Thank you for these “notes”–they are interesting and thought-provoking.

I think the idea that infection and the resulting antibodies from other coronavirus infections might be an explanation why some people recover faster or have a milder case (or no symptoms at all!), or seem to avoid catching COVID while others get infected and get very sick.

 

[Joegrane]

Remember Big Pharma puts trolls in groups such as ours to provide spin that benefits their profit margins.

They’ll talk about the potential benefits of their products and downplay the risks.

Remember mandatory vaccination is great for Pharma for many reasons. They sell more up front. There are no people that can be used to compare the long term health of vaxed vs unvaxed. Every medical intervention has some side effects. Where do people go when they suffer an adverse reaction? Back to Pharma and friends in mainstream medicine.

What is the only remaining incentive for godless, profit-first corporations to make a vaccine safer and more effective? It is the freedom of people to reject a vaccine with inadequate safety and efficacy. So if you want safer and more effective vaccines, vote for medical freedom, not medical rape.

 

[ATraveller]

I already live in a country without mandatory vaccinations. 95 % of children are vaccinated anyway. Medical decisions should always be made by the individual.

When vaccines are forced onto people, many think it fuels the anti-vaxxer movement.

Mandatory vaccination is not the solution for measles in Europe

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Of course, it’s entirely possible that those places that have made measles vaccines mandatory were responding to outbreaks.

 

[commenter]

When vaccines are forced onto people, many think it fuels the anti-vaxxer movement.

When certain vaccines of hypothetical marginal benefit, and higher risk, are added onto the mandatory list, then that calls cautious parents labelled as anti vaxxer.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

We do not play russian roulette with the brain of infants.

There is no comparison with Russian Roulette where the chance of death is more than 14%.

More and more parents are choosing to delay delay delay vaccines,

Delaying is OK as long as it doesn’t delay so long that the child begins mixing with society. If you want to home school your kids until they are 16 and keep them away from other kids, that is your business. But the moment your kids come into contact with my kids, it becomes my business too.

Many people are learning that aborted fetal cells are used in some of the vaccines, and that is a real issue for them…What is the source of aborted cells that are to this day used in MMR vaccines?

Here is what the Catholic Bishops have said about vaccines that rely on cell lines from aborted fetuses:
USCCB:

The Moral Reflections released by the Pontifical Academy for Life in 2005 have been
welcomed by the Catholic Bishops of the United States. Our Secretariat of Pro-Life
Activities agrees with the National Catholics Bioethics Center, the Catholic Medical
Association, and others that manufacturers should be urged to make alternative vaccines
more widely available so that Catholics and others will not face this moral dilemma.
In cases where no alternative is currently available, the Academy said that Catholics may
licitly accept vaccination for themselves and their children using a vaccine based on tissue
from abortion or may refuse the vaccine “if it can be done without causing children, and
indirectly the population as a whole, to undergo significant risks to their health.”

So as far as the moral issue goes, you can try to get one of the covid-19 vaccines that are not based on these cell lines, but if one is not available to you, you may licitly accept a vaccine that is so based.

research it and research actual family storys of permanent damage from their small childrens vaccines.

The trouble with “researching” it by reading anything you can find on the Internet is that you will be basing your research on unverified claims of anti-vaxxers, many of whom have imagined a cause-and-effect from the coincidence of the appearance of some symptom, like autism, often happens about the same time in life when children are normally vaccinated. It is not scientific. Also, researching case histories tells you nothing about the statistical probability of a reaction.

 

[Vico]

Do you approve of the Merriam-Webster definition?

Truthfully, I disagree with it. To me, “immune” is defined as: my immune system has the tools it needs to protect me.

Whereas isolation limits the amount of fuel, but does not make the disease less deadly to the fuel it does consume.

There is a difference between billions of people never being exposed to the disease (therefore they cannot pass it along) versus billions of survivors of the disease who cannot pass it along because there’s no one left who hasn’t had it.

I do not see from your comment why you do not agree with it because your comment does not differ from the definition of herd immunity, which: “occurs when a significant proportion of the population has become immune to infection”.

 

[mary77]

Children unvaccinated are put to risk by children who are vaccinated, you have it completely backwards . Im quite aware of the catholic view point about the vaccines from abortions. Everything else is blamed for everything that has increased while vaccines increase, Vaccines are never publicly allowed to be blamed and gullible people accept the first thing they are told. Asthma increase, Allergy increases, Autism…just to name a few.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Children unvaccinated are put to risk by children who are vaccinated.

This is utter nonsense.

gullible people accept the first thing they are told.

…or the last thing they are told, if it happens to feed into their fears or pre-conceptions.

Asthma increase, Allergy increases, Autism…just to name a few.

OK, you just lost all credibility by mentioning Autism. The supposed vaccine/autism link is one of the most extensively investigated claims in the history of medicine, and it has been totally discredited.

 

[Sarcelle]

Autism…just to name a few.

I wasn’t vaccinated as a toddler but I still have autism.

Autism has a strong genetic component and vaccines do not cause autism.

So for you parents who won’t vaccinate their kids because it may cause autism, this means they would rather have their children in danger of deadly but preventable diseases than have them be autistic.

Are we autistic people that damaged to you that you’d prefer your kids to get a potentially deadly disease than to be like us?

 

[mary77]

i only know i grew up with elementary school classes 50 kids to a class , one nun the teacher and kids were everywhere in the 1960s and no one had autism and everyone could bring peanut butter sandwiches to school on fridays and allergys was veryvery rare…compared to years later, first time i heard of children with autism was in the 1970s and as vaccines have expanded the rise of autism has gone up. Is it proof? no. and but its a coincidence.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

i only know i grew up with elementary school classes 50 kids to a class , one nun the teacher and kids were everywhere in the 1960s and no one had autism…

You do not know that for a fact. Autism diagnosis has changed drastically over that period of time. In those days such kids were either assumed to be mentally retarded or they were just tolerated as “weird kids”. As I said, the vaccine/autism link is the most intensively investigated link in the history of medicine, and it we can say with complete confidence that there is no causal link between the two.

 

[Sarcelle]

Or that there is more diagnoses now as doctors become more aware of autism.

Before autism was poorly understood so diagnosis was rare.

Autism was also considered as mainly affecting boys but now it is known that girls can have it too. So there will be more people diagnosed as doctors understand autism better.

 

[commenter]

So there will be more people diagnosed as doctors understand autism better

Working in the health field in the 1970s I saw extreme reluctance to diagnose Autism. Today are they going to the opposite extreme?

I’m not an expert.

 

[Sarcelle]

I’m not expert either but I think over time and as the sample size increases, doctors can increasingly see a pattern with regards to the symptoms of autism.

I don’t know if doctors are too quick to diagnose autism. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[PaulinVA]

i only know i grew up with elementary school classes 50 kids to a class , one nun the teacher and kids were everywhere in the 1960s and no one had autism and everyone could bring peanut butter sandwiches to school on fridays and allergys was veryvery rare…compared to years later, first time i heard of children with autism was in the 1970s and as vaccines have expanded the rise of autism has gone up. Is it proof? no. and but its a coincidence.

Causation and correlation are different. And, some things are just coincidences.

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[mary77]

i suggest researching the history of president ronald reagan passsing the Vaccine Injury Law and at the same time drug companys were free of ever being sued for vaccine injurys and ask yourself why this permission to not be sued occured and who the investors were and still are? also try your hardest to find specific cases of the billions of dollars that have been paid out by the govt fund set aside to compensate vaccine injury victims and how many have been sealed to secrecy.

 

[PaulinVA]

also try your hardest to find specific cases of the billions of dollars that have been paid out by the govt fund set aside to compensate vaccine injury victims and how many have been sealed to secrecy.

Why?

My children have all been vaccinated and I believe in vaccinations. The eradication of childhood diseases is a good thing, isn’t it?