The Universal Church

[ArchStanton]

indeed the peace of God in Christ rests in the prudent who remain obedient to original gospel, and. are not deceived.

Jeremiah 3:15 I will appoint for you shepherds after my own heart ,

who will shepherd you wisely and prudently.

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart ,

on your own intelligence do not rely ;

In all your ways be mindful of him,

and he will make straight your paths .

 

[mcq72]

Jeremiah 3:15 I will appoint for you** **shepherds after my own heart, who will shepherd you wisely and prudently .

CC and all Christian communities have shepherds, but only some shepherd wisely.

 

[ArchStanton]

CC and all Christian communities have shepherds, who shepherd wisely.

Different truths [partial truths] are not part of God’s plan…

Acts 20:28-30 Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers , in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you , and they will not spare the flock. And from your own group , men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them .

 

[lanman87]

Do we share the ‘one faith’?

If you faith is in Christ. Then yes.

 

[Wannano]

mcq72:

CC and all Christian communities have shepherds, who shepherd wisely.

Different truths [partial truths] are not part of God’s plan…

Acts 20:28-30 Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers , in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you , and they will not spare the flock. And from your own group , men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them .

I am interested in knowing if you are attributing Paul’s admonition here as prophecy of the Reformation?

 

[mcq72]

agree that we are 'brothers in Christ ’. But as Christ is the head and we are the body, that said body should be united in the ONE FAITH . It is our responsibility [as Catholics] to guide you towards all truth as opposed to partial truth.

Truly thank you. It is also a disciples responsibility to beware of the slightest leaven.

 

[mcq72]

Different truths [partial truths] are not part of God’s plan…

Agree. Lot of pied pipers out there.

 

[ArchStanton]

Do we share the ‘one faith’?

If you faith is in Christ. Then yes.

But what does that mean? [faith in Christ]

1. Do you believe Christ? … I will give YOU THE KEYS to the kingdom of heaven . Whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven ; and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven .”
2. Do you believe Christ? … Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them , and whose sins you retain are retained
3. Do you believe Christ? … This IS my body
4. Do you believe Christ? … “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

5. Do you believe Christ?… “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being* born from above.”

1. Do you believe Christ? … TEND MY SHEEP [Shepherd]

 

[ArchStanton]

Different truths [partial truths] are not part of God’s plan…

Agree. Lot of pied pipers out there.

And that, ‘my brother in Christ’ is the crux of it! Lots of pied pipers…did Christ leave us orphans for 1,500 years until Martin Luther and others came along? or did He establish a physical church with a hierarchy? Did that ‘church’ have the Holy Spirit guiding it with an expiration date?

Blessings!

 

[ArchStanton]

Different truths [partial truths] are not part of God’s plan…

Acts 20:28-30 Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the holy Spirit has appointed you overseers , in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you , and they will not spare the flock. And from your own group , men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them .

I am interested in knowing if you are attributing Paul’s admonition here as prophecy of the Reformation?

A warning for all periods of the NT times

 

[lanman87]

But what does that mean?

Basically it means that your heart has been changed from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh, that you a new creation in Christ, that you have had a spiritual birth and moved from being spiritually dead to spiritually alive. All of which are what God has done and continues to do in someones life.

All those things you listed have debatable meanings. And are part of our own understandings. I’m talking about what God has done, and continues to do in the hearts and lives of individuals. That is the mark of a Christian and what indicates if they are part of the universal church. If God accepts them and is working in their lives, then shouldn’t we also accept and encourage them?

 

[ArchStanton]

Basically it means that your heart has been changed from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh, that you a new creation in Christ, that you have had a spiritual birth and moved from being spiritually dead to spiritually alive. All of which are what God has done and continues to do in someones life.

All those things you listed have debatable meanings. And are part of our own understandings. I’m talking about what God has done, and continues to do in the hearts and lives of individuals. That is the mark of a Christian and what indicates if they are part of the universal church. If God accepts them and is working in their lives, then shouldn’t we also accept and encourage them?

To be spiritually alive I think of Christ’s words…

Jn 6
“ Amen, amen , I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you DO NOT HAVE LIFE within you . Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life , and I will raise him on the last day. For MY FLESH IS TRUE FOOD , and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him .

Debatable meanings and rely on our own understanding is what broke ‘The faith’ apart

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart ,

on your own intelligence do not rely ;

In all your ways be mindful of him,

and he will make straight your paths .

Blessings!

 

[gohjedrek]

I can’t disagree with the heart being changed from stone to flesh, but one big issue I really have with evangelicals is the issue of double predestination. It’s something that I can’t really grasp. I can understand how God has predestined people to salvation, but I can’t really make sense of the part to hell.

 

[lanman87]

Debatable meanings and rely on our own understanding is what broke ‘The faith’ apart

Yes, that is why we have to fall on our face before God and trust and rely on Him. There are a lot of different “understandings” and they can’t all be correct. But God is gracious and merciful to those that place their trust in Him.

 

[ArchStanton]

Yes, that is why we have to fall on our face before God and trust and rely on Him. There are a lot of different “understandings” and they can’t all be correct. But God is gracious and merciful to those that place their trust in Him.

Scenario …

In a room we have the following –
Lead Pastors: Baptist, Methodist, Anglican, Presbyterian, Non-Denominational Mega Church, Lutheran, Assemblies of God, Church of Christ.

Each lead pastor has a bible in hand and has stated that the HS guides them in their teachings.

Where do we go to KNOW we are being fed by the HS?

 

[mcq72]

Did that ‘church’ have the Holy Spirit guiding it with an expiration date?

No, but some just as erronously think He gave it unconditionally., that such guidance would be acted upon infallibly, just as infallibly as it was given.

 

[mcq72]

Debatable meanings and rely on our own understanding is

Jesus does ask both: “whom do men say that I am”, and “whom do you say that I am”. There is a dignified and proper, even responsible place for our own, personal understanding.We have a choice to take on His understanding, His mind via revelation and lay aside our default darkened understanding.

So, everyone has their own, personal stand on any issue. The only question then is it default, uninspired,or is it His stand also. This applies to individuals AND magisteriums, as in Jesus’s and apostles days…hence the question, " “where do you stand?”

 

[Margaret_Ann]

ArchStanton:

Did that ‘church’ have the Holy Spirit guiding it with an expiration date?

No, but some just as erronously think He gave it unconditionally

The Holy Spirit is He, not “it”. He is the Third Person of the Holy Trinity.

 

[lanman87]

Where do we go to KNOW we are being fed by the HS ?

Well first of all, 80-90% of their teachings will be the same. Second, if you ask any of them (well maybe not the church of Christ preacher) they would all affirm that they are all members of the universal church. I’ve seen Baptist preachers preach in a Methodist church and Methodist preachers preach in Baptist churches. As a matter of fact, it is a common occurrence where I live. I recently attended a Bible study lead by the local Presbyterian Pastor that had Baptist and Methodist take part in the study.

The reason being that most denominations aren’t as dogmatic or exclusive. The best way I’ve heard it put is that there are Closed Handed Doctrines (basically what is found in the Apostles, Nicene and Chalcedonian Creeds) which are the mark of Apostolic Christian teaching. And there are Open Handed Doctrines. These are things that are debatable historically or are personal convictions that I may believe for myself but others may have a different conviction (like drinking alcohol or reading Harry Potter books).

While we may have a very strong and firm opinion on the Open Handed Doctrines we also affirm that people are saved by a personal relationship with Christ by faith and not what they believe about doctrines that have been debated throughout the history of Christianity.

This is why you see Evangelicals from different denominations support each other’s ministry efforts and join together to evangelize and do works of charity in our communities. This is why Billy Graham (who was Southern Baptist) worked with any Christian denomination when his crusaded came to town. We realize we aren’t saved by being a Baptist or Methodist or Presbyterian or Assembly of God or whatever. We are saved by Christ. Baptist, Methodist and so on, are the tradition in which we choose to worship and serve the Christ who saves.

Protestant Christianity isn’t nearly divided as Catholics think. Our unity comes from a shared faith and love of Christ. For the most part, that makes those 10-20% doctrinal differences interesting conversations but not something that causes us to break fellowship with one another or deny that they are part of the “One Faith.”

 

[mcq72]

The Holy Spirit is He, not “it”. He is the Third Person of the Holy Trinity.

Lol…i know, I hate whenever we write things wrongly for I agree with you. But upon rereading it I can see our misunderstanding. We were speaking of the Holy Ghost and His guidance, not Jesus giving the Holy Ghost.

So I really wrote ," He (Holy Ghost) gave it (guidance) unconditionally…", not " He (Jesus) gave it (HG) unconditionally.