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fix
Guest
Most “Catholic” universities are CINO. They should conform to the letter and spirit of the law. That means they should be Catholic in an authentic sense, not secular with a Catholic name.
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Brad
Guest
That about sums it up - well done!
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Lance
Guest
Steph700 said:
And that would be wrong, how? After all they do claim to be Catholic and thus fall under his jurisdiction.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
romano,
It seems we are in agreement.
It seems we are in agreement.
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Brad
Guest
Should the University show diverse view points or only Catholic views? By the time a person goes to University they should be mature enough to handle material that a minor could not. If Catholics were a majority in this country and if the constitution allowed, should all other views be suppressed?
- An organization that claims to be Catholic should not provide platform for views that directly contradict the faith. Would a Muslim organization allow such a play? Would the New York Rangers hockey team allow players to play with baseball bats instead of hockey sticks if and when they felt like it?
- Having been to college and lived some years thereafter, I realize that 18-22 is still a very impressionable time in which world views are being formulated. In other words, their foundational learning, in which 18 years are invested, is not complete. In addition, culturally, this is the time to explore the world outside the opinions of your upbrining and outside the protections that these opinions bestow.
- This is not so much an “alternate viewpoint” as it is a “shock and awe” attempt to completely undermine foundational institutions. If you want to do this, that’s fine - do it directly - don’t pass it off as “art” when it does not take talent as it does the willingness to publicize the dark side of someone’s thoughts. This doesn’t edify (which should be the purpose of art) but rather demeans.
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Brad
Guest
Something doesn’t have to be approved by the Pope for a Catholic organization to give it platform. The problem here (and with having Hillary Clinton speak) is that the platform directly contradicts Catholic teaching.
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Brad
Guest
You are confusing the word “censor” with “promotion”. As much as colleges want to pretend that they are giving equal time to various opinions, the fact of the matter (philosophically and realistically) is that the speakers they have and the shows they present under their name indicate something about what the organization supports.Should we hope to bring back the days when the Church can censor any speech we don’t like; when people went to church because of peer pressure and not because they want to be there?
Yes, today is harder, but God does not give us tasks we can’t handle (and we have the Holy Spirit on our side).
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condan
Guest
I am convinced by what I read on these threads that people are in dire need of a dictionary to look up the meaning of the word “censor”. If an organization/institution/party has a specific charter or character or motto or goal, then what goes on in that organization/institution/party should reflect that particular aim. It defeats the purpose to do otherwise.
I mean, this is just common sense, right? Anyone with a 6th grade education can figure this stuff out. For example, I was a democrat all my life. I voted for Carter twice and Clinton twice and everyone in between, including Dukakis [sic]. But, towards the end, I realized that I didn’t favor big government, lifelong welfare benefits, weak military, open borders, disarmament, abortion in any circumstances, feminism or any other part of the Democratic party platform. Given that, would it have made sense for me to continue identifying myself as a Democrat? No, of course not so I switched to a party that more closely mirrored my values and political views.
It goes without saying that a Catholic school has a duty to teach Catholicism and to teach from a Catholic perspective. To do otherwise is dishonest.
Censorship, on the other hand, is when you prevent people from speaking at all. I am sure that the administration of Notre Dame would not support preventing the V Monologues from being presented in the proper forum, i.e., in a privately funded secular setting.
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Maranatha
Guest
I don’t believe the defense “the play made me do it” will work on Judgment Day. As for our present courts, I’m not so sure.This kind of thing is not freedom of speech
Some misguided people are propagating this filth. We need to convert them instead of suppressing them If we ban the play we loose the opportunity to save some souls.
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Maranatha
Guest
I’m not sure how my post reeks of spiritual relativism. Can you explain?
I have read the Catachism and did not find anything on censorship.
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maendem
Guest
There are now two threads on this topic. What I find sadly missing in both of them is an objection to the Monologues based not on what they contain (“pure filth,” as many wrote) but on what they lack; namely, an adequate recognition of and reverence for the beauty, mystery and sacredness of the female body.
I was at a talk once given by Christopher West. After his lecture, a young mother stood up and proceeded to regale us with a 10 minute account of all the ways that she fights impurity in our consumer culture. Her current target was the magazines in supermarkets, and she proudly explained how she had convinced various store managers to stop displaying tabloids and soft porn magazines on those shelves that were at the eye level of her children. She encouraged all of us to boycott stores that would not halt such displays, and waxed eloquent about the “disgusting, perverted trash” her children were constantly exposed to.
She did not get the applause I think she expected from West. “Why aren’t you focusing on the beauty and the dignity of the human body?” he asked her. "The problem with porn is not that it shows too much, but that it shows too little. Your children will be exposed to pictures, concepts and “art” that degrades the human body all of their lives. Instead of focusing your energy on attacking those abberations, focus on showing them why they are inadequate. Help your kids recognize the marvelous mystery of the human form, and the great responsibility and reverence it calls forth. Teach your kids to see the covers of such magazines and think “that is a lovely daughter of God, who has tragically degraded herself and is being degraded.”
Unlike perhaps many on this thread, I’ve read excerpts from the Monologues themselves. It is easy to call them trash, and that assesment is not wrong, but it’s inadequate. The supposed victories that the featured women attest to are hallow and forced. Their epiphanies about sexuality are pathetic. Reading them, it angered me to know that Monologue audiences, especially young girls, are essentially being forced to settle for a mediocre and superficial view of sexuality, while being promised so much more.
Fine, let’s fight to keep the Monologues off Catholic campuses. But are we fighting just as hard to see that the good news, the real, thrilling, true story about the beauty of sexuality is being taught? Rather than boycott Monologue events, we ought to be inviting speakers such as West, Janet Smith, Alice von Hildebrandt, etc. as “follow ups” or alternatives to the play.
The Monologues raise real, hard questions and don’t give any real, hard answers. The Catholic Church has all the wisdom, depth and truth to address the issues raised by the Monologues. I don’t mean to say the Monologues don’t claim to give answers, or that they don’t have an agenda which goes far beyond “raising questions.” But let’s not forget to give TRUE answers while attacking the ways uncomfortable questions are brought to us.
I was at a talk once given by Christopher West. After his lecture, a young mother stood up and proceeded to regale us with a 10 minute account of all the ways that she fights impurity in our consumer culture. Her current target was the magazines in supermarkets, and she proudly explained how she had convinced various store managers to stop displaying tabloids and soft porn magazines on those shelves that were at the eye level of her children. She encouraged all of us to boycott stores that would not halt such displays, and waxed eloquent about the “disgusting, perverted trash” her children were constantly exposed to.
She did not get the applause I think she expected from West. “Why aren’t you focusing on the beauty and the dignity of the human body?” he asked her. "The problem with porn is not that it shows too much, but that it shows too little. Your children will be exposed to pictures, concepts and “art” that degrades the human body all of their lives. Instead of focusing your energy on attacking those abberations, focus on showing them why they are inadequate. Help your kids recognize the marvelous mystery of the human form, and the great responsibility and reverence it calls forth. Teach your kids to see the covers of such magazines and think “that is a lovely daughter of God, who has tragically degraded herself and is being degraded.”
Unlike perhaps many on this thread, I’ve read excerpts from the Monologues themselves. It is easy to call them trash, and that assesment is not wrong, but it’s inadequate. The supposed victories that the featured women attest to are hallow and forced. Their epiphanies about sexuality are pathetic. Reading them, it angered me to know that Monologue audiences, especially young girls, are essentially being forced to settle for a mediocre and superficial view of sexuality, while being promised so much more.
Fine, let’s fight to keep the Monologues off Catholic campuses. But are we fighting just as hard to see that the good news, the real, thrilling, true story about the beauty of sexuality is being taught? Rather than boycott Monologue events, we ought to be inviting speakers such as West, Janet Smith, Alice von Hildebrandt, etc. as “follow ups” or alternatives to the play.
The Monologues raise real, hard questions and don’t give any real, hard answers. The Catholic Church has all the wisdom, depth and truth to address the issues raised by the Monologues. I don’t mean to say the Monologues don’t claim to give answers, or that they don’t have an agenda which goes far beyond “raising questions.” But let’s not forget to give TRUE answers while attacking the ways uncomfortable questions are brought to us.
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Maranatha
Guest
Congratulations to you. I pray that your daily example and charity will convert many.
I don’t think the Catholic University’s purpose is to shelter it’s students from dissenting opinions no matter how vile.
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Maranatha
Guest
Stopping the play would be censorship. Allowing the play to go forward does not constitute promotion nor does it indicate support for what’s in the play.
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Maranatha
Guest
Excellent post. We need to teach why the VM are wrong and not just sweep the issue under the rug.
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fix
Guest
Presenting different opinions is fine, but not enough. Error and other noxious elements need to be suppressed. We have enough moral pollution everywhere. A Catholic school has no right to allow such rubbish under the guise of “freedom”.
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GoodKnight1443
Guest
Sort of. I saw it listed in the HBO program guide in a hotel I stayed in about 2 years ago. Call it curiosity killing the cat. We don’t have HBO at home for a reason. I Iasted about 15 minutes. While I am not a “prude” per se, I found the woman delivering the monologues to be annoying, whiney, over empahiasing the V-word for shock value, and her anecdotes were not funny but dumb. This was not an attempt at performing art but a lame attempt at adult humor. I would have been very offended if were I a woman.
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maendem
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fix
Guest
fix:
attacking “moral pollution” is not going to help young women who are desperately searching for answers about their fears, confusions, excitement, betrayals and contradictions experienced in their burgeoning sexuality, and who find that the Monologues are explicitly (if unsatisfactorily)adressing those issues. These women need the truth and we need to attest to it, because they are pleading for it, however unconsciously…
I agree with presenting the truth. One would hope a “Catholic” institution is doing that now. Correcting errors and suppressing garbage should not even be debated. It should be done out of justice.
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fix
Guest
fix:
attacking “moral pollution” is not going to help young women who are desperately searching for answers about their fears, confusions, excitement, betrayals and contradictions experienced in their burgeoning sexuality, and who find that ie. the Monologues are explicitly adressing those issues. These women need the truth and we need to attest to it, because they are pleading for it, however unconsciously…
That is not the issue at hand. The issue is a so-called Catholic school is presenting vile things under the banner of academic freedom. Of course, the truth should be taught and lived. These schools seem to have a hard core secularist, anti Catholic agenda. They are rebellious. Only presenting another “view” is not enough. Both need to be done. Preach the truth, teach the truth and eliminate porn posing as theater.
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maendem
Guest
Fix, I agree with you.
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