The Vagina Monologues at Notre Dame?

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After seeing some of the discussion about some people claiming “censorship”, I cannot help but recall my dear husband saying : “The Catholic Church is not a Democracy, it is a Hierarchy and has been for centuries.”

The so called Catholic institutions (ie universities) need to realize this and follow true Catholic doctrine.

Just my two cents 🙂
 
Has anyone here even seen this play? I bet not. Here is a simple rule to remember: one shouldn’t make judgments about art without viewing it and trying to understand it. I haven’t seen it. The title is a little titillating and exciting, and people here assume the content must be dirty and un-Christian, but, from what I understand, it really isn’t that bad.

And it should be perfectly OK for a Catholic university to allow performance of a play with the word “vagina” in the title. Colleges are supposed to educate our youth and broaden their minds to the wide range of ideas in our world. Even Catholic colleges should do that. This play is just one idea, one work of art. College kids should be able to grasp that. Get a grip, guys.
 
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CinciMom:
After seeing some of the discussion about some people claiming “censorship”, I cannot help but recall my dear husband saying : “The Catholic Church is not a Democracy, it is a Hierarchy and has been for centuries.”

The so called Catholic institutions (ie universities) need to realize this and follow true Catholic doctrine.

Just my two cents 🙂
What’s true Catholic doctrine? Suppress all ideas that don’t promote Catholicism? Maybe we should not allow kids at Catholic colleges to listen to rap music on their I-Pods; that music today is awfully naughty - surely worse than the V-monologues- and its message is certainly not Catholic. Kids also shouldn’t go to R-rated movies, because ideas there might be something less than Christian. And visiting the local museum of art? Forget it! There are actual paintings of NUDES there, for heaven’s sake!

There are plenty of ideas in the world that might be a tiny bit offensive to some. We can’t suppress those ideas and hope they go away. We have to expect that our young people will know enough to make their own judgments about those ideas - to accept or reject; our colleges and universities can help prepare their minds for the different decisions they will have to make. But suppressing a nationally well-received play like the Vagina Monologues doesn’t accomplish anything.
 
sbcoral,

Banning that play accomplishes the task of publicly stating that the Catholic faith does not adhere to such garbage. That alone is enough.
 
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sbcoral:
Has anyone here even seen this play? I bet not. Here is a simple rule to remember: one shouldn’t make judgments about art without viewing it and trying to understand it. I haven’t seen it. The title is a little titillating and exciting, and people here assume the content must be dirty and un-Christian, but, from what I understand, it really isn’t that bad.

And it should be perfectly OK for a Catholic university to allow performance of a play with the word “vagina” in the title. Colleges are supposed to educate our youth and broaden their minds to the wide range of ideas in our world. Even Catholic colleges should do that. This play is just one idea, one work of art. College kids should be able to grasp that. Get a grip, guys.
Read the thread. I’ve seen it along with several others. Its way more than just having the word “vagina” in the title.
 
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Maranatha:
I don’t believe the defense “the play made me do it” will work on Judgment Day. As for our present courts, I’m not so sure.

Some misguided people are propagating this filth. We need to convert them instead of suppressing them If we ban the play we loose the opportunity to save some souls.
The play made me do it, is not the point.If you swim in manure you might come out smelling funny.Do you know what means? Things that are evil in nature are already accpted and hardly raises an eyebrow anymore.Why is that? Becuase we have been saturated in it.To allow them to have this there is to give approval:mad: That is not converting them it is justifying the depravity.God Bless
 
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sbcoral:
What’s true Catholic doctrine? Suppress all ideas that don’t promote Catholicism? Maybe we should not allow kids at Catholic colleges to listen to rap music on their I-Pods; that music today is awfully naughty - surely worse than the V-monologues- and its message is certainly not Catholic. Kids also shouldn’t go to R-rated movies, because ideas there might be something less than Christian. And visiting the local museum of art? Forget it! There are actual paintings of NUDES there, for heaven’s sake!

There are plenty of ideas in the world that might be a tiny bit offensive to some. We can’t suppress those ideas and hope they go away. We have to expect that our young people will know enough to make their own judgments about those ideas - to accept or reject; our colleges and universities can help prepare their minds for the different decisions they will have to make. But suppressing a nationally well-received play like the Vagina Monologues doesn’t accomplish anything.
Frankly I do not care if the play is well recieved nationally so is abortion:mad: But, to call art the depiction and glorification of a grown women taking advantage of a minor is rediculous.But hey the planned parentood mentality runs rampant:banghead:
 
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TPJCatholic:
sbcoral,

Banning that play accomplishes the task of publicly stating that the Catholic faith does not adhere to such garbage. That alone is enough.
But:
  1. Why is it garbage, exactly? Have you actually seen it and decided that, or is this based on what other people have told you to think about it?
  2. Suppressing/censoring ideas should not be the goal of ANY institution of higher learning, Catholic or not.
 
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condan:
Read the thread. I’ve seen it along with several others. Its way more than just having the word “vagina” in the title.
So, you have seen it? Gosh, you are pretty hip. What is it that’s so objectionable? In your earlier post, you say its premise is that vaginas need their own community. That of course seems like a silly idea, but maybe it’s a girl thing. I don’t know. But that idea doesn’t seem like something that would shake the foundation of anyone’s Catholic faith.
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Frankly I do not care if the play is well recieved nationally so is abortion:mad: But, to call art the depiction and glorification of a grown women taking advantage of a minor is rediculous.:banghead:
What exactly happens here with the grown woman? I haven’t seen the play, so of course I can’t make any judgments or provide any reviews about it. But you’ve piqued my curiosity - what happens? Did you not like the play, Lisa4Catholics? If you saw it and give it a thumbs down, fine, I will take that into account, but I still think I and others should be allowed to see it.

And don’t beat your head against the wall all the time! Take a deep breath and relax!
 
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sbcoral:
What exactly happens here with the grown woman? I haven’t seen the play, so of course I can’t make any judgments or provide any reviews about it. But you’ve piqued my curiosity - what happens? Did you not like the play, Lisa4Catholics? If you saw it and give it a thumbs down, fine, I will take that into account, but I still think I and others should be allowed to see it.

And don’t beat your head against the wall all the time! Take a deep breath and relax!
The play features an adult woman who gets a teenager drunk and then sexually molests here. This is considered a real boon to her development. BTW I heard there is some upcoming TV show called “The L Word” that also features the molestation of a young woman by an older woman.

I saw part of it VM. A bunch of women obsessing over body parts. Talk about making a soul an object! Is this what women want to be thought of?

Lisa N
 
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condan:
I am convinced by what I read on these threads that people are in dire need of a dictionary to look up the meaning of the word “censor”. If an organization/institution/party has a specific charter or character or motto or goal, then what goes on in that organization/institution/party should reflect that particular aim. It defeats the purpose to do otherwise.

I mean, this is just common sense, right? Anyone with a 6th grade education can figure this stuff out. For example, I was a democrat all my life. I voted for Carter twice and Clinton twice and everyone in between, including Dukakis [sic]. But, towards the end, I realized that I didn’t favor big government, lifelong welfare benefits, weak military, open borders, disarmament, abortion in any circumstances, feminism or any other part of the Democratic party platform. Given that, would it have made sense for me to continue identifying myself as a Democrat? No, of course not so I switched to a party that more closely mirrored my values and political views.

It goes without saying that a Catholic school has a duty to teach Catholicism and to teach from a Catholic perspective. To do otherwise is dishonest.

Censorship, on the other hand, is when you prevent people from speaking at all. I am sure that the administration of Notre Dame would not support preventing the V Monologues from being presented in the proper forum, i.e., in a privately funded secular setting.
I’m thinking if it wasn’t granted funding and publicity by big name organizations like Notre Dame, it would fizzle out on its own merits.
 
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Maranatha:
I don’t believe the defense “the play made me do it” will work on Judgment Day. As for our present courts, I’m not so sure.

Some misguided people are propagating this filth. We need to convert them instead of suppressing them If we ban the play we loose the opportunity to save some souls.
Dropping your convictions will convert nobody. It will simply create the odor of weakness that makes the evil one salivate.

Those starved for the truth (everyone) are converted by people of courage and conviction - those willing to stand while everyone else sits.
 
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maendem:
There are now two threads on this topic. What I find sadly missing in both of them is an objection to the Monologues based not on what they contain (“pure filth,” as many wrote) but on what they lack; namely, an adequate recognition of and reverence for the beauty, mystery and sacredness of the female body.

I was at a talk once given by Christopher West. After his lecture, a young mother stood up and proceeded to regale us with a 10 minute account of all the ways that she fights impurity in our consumer culture. Her current target was the magazines in supermarkets, and she proudly explained how she had convinced various store managers to stop displaying tabloids and soft porn magazines on those shelves that were at the eye level of her children. She encouraged all of us to boycott stores that would not halt such displays, and waxed eloquent about the “disgusting, perverted trash” her children were constantly exposed to.

She did not get the applause I think she expected from West. “Why aren’t you focusing on the beauty and the dignity of the human body?” he asked her. "The problem with porn is not that it shows too much, but that it shows too little. Your children will be exposed to pictures, concepts and “art” that degrades the human body all of their lives. Instead of focusing your energy on attacking those abberations, focus on showing them why they are inadequate. Help your kids recognize the marvelous mystery of the human form, and the great responsibility and reverence it calls forth. Teach your kids to see the covers of such magazines and think “that is a lovely daughter of God, who has tragically degraded herself and is being degraded.”

Unlike perhaps many on this thread, I’ve read excerpts from the Monologues themselves. It is easy to call them trash, and that assesment is not wrong, but it’s inadequate. The supposed victories that the featured women attest to are hallow and forced. Their epiphanies about sexuality are pathetic. Reading them, it angered me to know that Monologue audiences, especially young girls, are essentially being forced to settle for a mediocre and superficial view of sexuality, while being promised so much more.

Fine, let’s fight to keep the Monologues off Catholic campuses. But are we fighting just as hard to see that the good news, the real, thrilling, true story about the beauty of sexuality is being taught? Rather than boycott Monologue events, we ought to be inviting speakers such as West, Janet Smith, Alice von Hildebrandt, etc. as “follow ups” or alternatives to the play.

The Monologues raise real, hard questions and don’t give any real, hard answers. The Catholic Church has all the wisdom, depth and truth to address the issues raised by the Monologues. I don’t mean to say the Monologues don’t claim to give answers, or that they don’t have an agenda which goes far beyond “raising questions.” But let’s not forget to give TRUE answers while attacking the ways uncomfortable questions are brought to us.
We are supposed to do both. The young mother you described is courageous and did the right thing. She should have been applauded. Jason Everet talks of doing exactly what she did all the time to teenage audiences.

I agree with what you are suggesting but it is not an either/or - it is a both/and. Usually those protesting the bad are also promoting the good while those talking about doing the good are doing neither.
 
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Maranatha:
Stopping the play would be censorship. Allowing the play to go forward does not constitute promotion nor does it indicate support for what’s in the play.
I’m sorry but your statements are nonsensical. Please sign-off and try again.

Stopping the play is not censorship. If it was, then Notre Dame would be censoring the circus for not putting it on the schedule for the past 20 years.

Scheduling the play by Notre Dame employees to exhibit on Notre Dame property supported undoubtedly by Notre Dame funding, and promoting to Notre Dame students (former and present) consitutes promotion by Notre Dame at some level.

Again, I will ask (and eagerly await an answer) a question:

Should/would a Hindu organization hold a taste-test contest for beef?
 
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maendem:
No–error needs to be corrected, not supressed. If you just stamp it out, you’re not enlightening anyone. Neither the presentation of different opinions nor the suppression of error are enough. An objective TRUTH needs to be attested to.

The truth, as attested to so eloquently in the Catholic Church, is not just another opinion, to be presented along with opinions of the Monologues, and I don’t in any way mean to say “it’s OK to have the VM as long as an alternative is presented.”

I do mean to insist, however, that only attacking “moral pollution” is not going to help young women who are desperately searching for answers about their fears, confusions, excitement, betrayals and contradictions experienced in their burgeoning sexuality, and who find that ie. the Monologues are explicitly adressing those issues. These women need the truth and we need to attest to it, because they are pleading for it, however unconsciously…
The moral pollution needs to be attacked here, because, at the very least, Notre Dame is not including Christopher West to do a follow-up as part of the ticket.
 
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maendem:
No–error needs to be corrected, not supressed. If you just stamp it out, you’re not enlightening anyone. Neither the presentation of different opinions nor the suppression of error are enough. An objective TRUTH needs to be attested to.

The truth, as attested to so eloquently in the Catholic Church, is not just another opinion, to be presented along with opinions of the Monologues, and I don’t in any way mean to say “it’s OK to have the VM as long as an alternative is presented.”

I do mean to insist, however, that only attacking “moral pollution” is not going to help young women who are desperately searching for answers about their fears, confusions, excitement, betrayals and contradictions experienced in their burgeoning sexuality, and who find that ie. the Monologues are explicitly adressing those issues. These women need the truth and we need to attest to it, because they are pleading for it, however unconsciously…
The moral pollution needs to be attacked here, because, at the very least, Notre Dame is not including Christopher West to do a follow-up as part of the ticket.
 
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sbcoral:
Has anyone here even seen this play? I bet not. Here is a simple rule to remember: one shouldn’t make judgments about art without viewing it and trying to understand it. I haven’t seen it. The title is a little titillating and exciting, and people here assume the content must be dirty and un-Christian, but, from what I understand, it really isn’t that bad.

And it should be perfectly OK for a Catholic university to allow performance of a play with the word “vagina” in the title. Colleges are supposed to educate our youth and broaden their minds to the wide range of ideas in our world. Even Catholic colleges should do that. This play is just one idea, one work of art. College kids should be able to grasp that. Get a grip, guys.
The play is an amateur attempt to shock people into giddily viewing the radical femminist agenda, which is anti-Catholic at it’s core.
 
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sbcoral:
What’s true Catholic doctrine? Suppress all ideas that don’t promote Catholicism? Maybe we should not allow kids at Catholic colleges to listen to rap music on their I-Pods; that music today is awfully naughty - surely worse than the V-monologues- and its message is certainly not Catholic. Kids also shouldn’t go to R-rated movies, because ideas there might be something less than Christian. And visiting the local museum of art? Forget it! There are actual paintings of NUDES there, for heaven’s sake!

There are plenty of ideas in the world that might be a tiny bit offensive to some. We can’t suppress those ideas and hope they go away. We have to expect that our young people will know enough to make their own judgments about those ideas - to accept or reject; our colleges and universities can help prepare their minds for the different decisions they will have to make. But suppressing a nationally well-received play like the Vagina Monologues doesn’t accomplish anything.
Although you are using a different word (suppression) than censorship, you don’t seem to understand the difference between “censor” and “promotion” either.

And by the way, no, kids shouldn’t go to R-rated movies. The fact that they do doesn’t make it right.
 
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sbcoral:
But:
  1. Why is it garbage, exactly? Have you actually seen it and decided that, or is this based on what other people have told you to think about it?
  2. Suppressing/censoring ideas should not be the goal of ANY institution of higher learning, Catholic or not.
Is Notre Dame suppressing/censoring the Canadian Ice-Fishing Association?
 
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