The Very Early Eucharist---Jesus not present in the Bread and Wine?

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!
Psalm45:9:

Merry Christmas!

Well there is no “list” in the Bible, but the Holy Spirit provided one:

"It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned which writings are to be included in the list of the sacred books.

This complete list is called the canon of Scripture. It includes 46 books for the Old Testament (45 if we count Jeremiah and Lamentations as one) and 27 for the New.

The Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, 1 and 2 Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah, Tobit, Judith, Esther, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Songs, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Baruch, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zachariah and Malachi.

The New Testament: the Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, the Acts of the Apostles, the Letters of St. Paul to the Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, the Letter to the Hebrews, the Letters of James, 1 and 2 Peter, 1, 2 and 3 John, and Jude, and Revelation (the Apocalypse). " (CCC Part 1, Section 1, Article 3)

You can’t see the spiritual “list” in the Scripture, but it is there.

We talk about this in a thread about it, if the Lord wills.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

RedDeathsMask:

A Christian is a disciple of Christ. Catholics and Non-Catholics are Christians, and there are divisions.

“So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”” ( John 8:31-32 )

Amen.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Ignatius:

On the contrary, you know virtually nothing of the Catholic Church. You are as the blind man who thinks he knows what it is to see. don’t mean to be unkind, but I am embarassed for you and your ignorant statements. Please, do a little homework; I mean real genuine study. Start with the earliest writers after the Apostles, proceed through the writers of the first 1000 years or so.

Done.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!
J.W.B.:

YAQUBOS, do you know anything at all about the Church Fathers?

Yes.
J.W.B.:

I’ll admit as any informed Catholic would, there was a broad consensus among the Fathers, BUT there is MUCH MORE than enough difference to require an authoritative decree by the Church to put the matter to rest. Not to mention the Church was in it’s early stages of DEVELOPMENT; yet the MAGORITY of the Fathers believed exactly what Catholics believe today: THE REAL PRESENCE,

We talked about this here. Please, read the thread a little.
J.W.B.:

Mary being the Mother of God

Do you know at least when was this expression “Mother of God” CREATED by humans? And do you know the story behind it?

I don’t mean to talk about this here, of course, because it’s not our topic.
J.W.B.:

, Baptismal Regeneration, infused justification, confession, commuion of Saints, purgatory, APOSTOLIC TRADITION (and not each mans own veiw points) etc.

I used to be a Protestant, anti-Catholic, to non-denominational, to strictly Calvinist. I despied Catholicism and made the same arguments you did. But with a humble and honest heart for the truth I began to study it, seriously. Well PRAISE THE LORD because I am now a Catholic

So? What do I have to conclude from all these emotions?
J.W.B.:

Protestants deny papal infalbillity yet make themselves into super popes!

oooh… Too bad… They must not do that. So let’s be better than them, and follow the humility of our Lord…

And by the way: let us NOT gossip about our brothers…
J.W.B.:

Why have an infalliable Bible if there is no infalliable interpreter?

Yes, indeed. But thank the Lord for He is the Interpreter. So The Scripture is clearly interpreting the Scripture to THOSE WHO HAVE THE SPIRIT who wrote the Scripture.
J.W.B.:

God protects his Church. Yet Protestants enjoy their “freedom” too much to accept this.

Oh! What kind of Christians are these Protestants??? Don’t they know that the Church is protected by God?
J.W.B.:

That is why there are NUMEROUS Protestant denominations with each claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit and each coming to different conclusions.

And maybe this is why the Fathers didn’t always agree on the same things…
J.W.B.:

God is NOT the author of confusion.

Amen. Satan is the author of confusion. So he tries to show you that the Church is not one…
J.W.B.:

Christ promised the Spirit would lead His people into ALL truth. And there is to be ONE FAITH, period.

Oh, how bad were those Fathers who didn’t always agree with each other on the ONE FAITH, period…
J.W.B.:

Protestants claim they only differ on “secondary doctrines,” really, like: TULIP, BAPTISM, THE EUCHARIST, CHURCH GOVERNMENT, REGENERATION, WOMEN CLERGY, DIVORCE, ABORTION (I have even heard someone quote from the Old Testament trying to JUSTIFY abortion), Alcohol, FEMINISM, SABBATARIANISM, THE PLACE OF TRADITION, FREE WILL, THE END TIMES, etc, etc, ETC!!

Ooooh! It seems that we must tell them what the Scripture teaches about all that…
J.W.B.:

Please, be humble in your belifs at least.

Thank you for your advice, my friend.
J.W.B.:

God give you peace my friend

As I am in Him who is our Peace, so I know what it means to wish peace to someone. Thank you really much.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!
Church Militant:

Nice…Now tell the truth…Just what have you read that was written by any legitimate Catholic author? Don’t be shy…name some names and titles…
I wager that you can’t because you haven’t and you refuse to have the courage of your “convictions” and read our stuff because you’re afraid we MIGHT have a valid case at some point.

BTW…"Roman philosophy’? Rubbish! What you’re (NOT) saying is that you haven’t read one blessed word written by any of us Catholics…only stuff written by anti-Catholics about what they’ve TOLD you about us. Sadly…they are as ignorant of our real teachings as you are so it’s just the blind leading the blind. I also accuse you of not being honest, since you tell us that you know what we believe yet have NO first hand knowlege of Catholicism. I personally, would be embarrased and ashamed to go into a forum and make the kind of attacks that you do without being 100% certain of what I was talkin’ about. I think you should be too my friend.

http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/treadmill.gif

The formalist always think there is something special in their human philosophies:

"No one of the rulers or Pharisees has believed in Him, has he?
“But this crowd which does not know the Law is accursed.” ( John 7:48-49 )

The Lord bless you, my friend!

You just want to lead the discussion to a debate about human ideas. As for me, I want to learn from God.

My replies show if I know or not.

The Lord knows.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Psalm45_9]

Pax Vobiscvm!

YAQUBOS:

You can’t see the spiritual “list” in the Scripture, but it is there.

I did provide the spiritual list. Please provide the spiritual list from scripture

YAQUBOS:

We talk about this in a thread about it, if the Lord wills.

Well, there was another thread, but you gave me circular answers.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Pax Vobiscvm!

YAQUBOS:

“So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”” ( John 8:31-32 )

Amen.

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 18:15-18)

“If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” (1 Timothy 3:15)

'Ignatius of Antioch

“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (*Letter to the Romans *7:3 [A.D. 110]).

“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (*Letter to the Smyrnaeans *6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).’

[Igantius, Bishop of Antioch]

catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp

“Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God.” (Acts 20:28)

“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you REJECTS ME, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16)

Amen.

 

[Psalm45_9]

YAQUBOS:

The formalist always think there is something special in their human philosophies:

You mean our dogmas and doctrines, which come directly from the Holy Spirit.

YAQUBOS:

Jesus told us that the Spirit will teach us everything.

AMEN!

"No one of the rulers or Pharisees has believed in Him, has he?

“But this crowd which does not know the Law is accursed.” ( John 7:48-49 )I thought as long as you believed in Jesus, then the Law does not justify.

 

[Psalm45_9]

YAQUBOS:

Ooooh! It seems that we must tell them what the Scripture teaches about all that…

Where does the Bible say abortion is wrong?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Psalm45:9:

Where does the Bible say abortion is wrong?

THOU SHALL NOT KILL.

 

[jphilapy]

YAQUBOS said:Ooooh! It seems that we must tell them what the Scripture teaches about all that…

Psalm said: Where does the Bible say abortion is wrong?

SPOKENWORD said: THOU SHALL NOT KILL

Howdy all, just a thought to change the thread a little. To be fair, I think the question here is, is it ok to teach things which are not directly spoken in scripture? For example the command, ‘you shall not kill babies in a state of pregnancy’ can not be found directly in scripture. However one comes to the conclusion that it is to be obeyed because of what scripture teaches as a whole regarding love and murder and hate and God’s character, authority etc. So the scripture supplies the context that make such conclusions possible.

There isn’t anyone on the face of this earth that can say all that they teach is written word for word in the scripture. The best that can be said is that they derive their conclusions from what is taught in scripture.

So as a question for discussion, what is the basis that you consider something as being scriptural? As a primer to this question here is something to consider. Christians today argue from scripture that it is wrong to commit abortion. However christians in the 2nd century argued from scripture that it was wrong for a christian to take the life of any human. This meant in war, in law etc or any other form. Yet christians today have no problem functioning in a capacity where they are killing wether it be in combat fighting, giving orders to kill, or as a judge giving the death sentence.

Jeff

 

[Ignatius]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!
**Ignatius:
On the contrary, you know virtually nothing of the Catholic Church. You are as the blind man who thinks he knows what it is to see. don’t mean to be unkind, but I am embarassed for you and your ignorant statements. Please, do a little homework; I mean real genuine study. Start with the earliest writers after the Apostles, proceed through the writers of the first 1000 years or so.

Done.

QUOTE]

May the peace of Christ be upon you.

You are being dishonest, you clearly have not done this.

Yours in Christ.

 

[Psalm45_9]

SPOKENWORD:

THOU SHALL NOT KILL.

Sorry to give you heartattack, let me explain, read this over the intercession of the Saints in Heaven, the thread is now closed:

When some one said that the Bible does not say that the Jews did not pray to Abraham, I said:
Psalm45:9:

It does not say anywhere Bible that they did not pray to Abraham. It does not say anywhere in the Bible that we can not pray to the Saints in Heaven. Again and again, they are alive, in Christ’s one body. Revelation shows that they are not resting.

YAQUBOS answered:

YAQUBOS:

It does not say anywhere in the Bible that it is a sin to destroy the World Trade Center… So are those terrorists blameless?

I responded:

“Thou shalt not kill.” (Exodus 20:13)

YAQBUOS replied:

YAQUBOS:

But it doesn’t say: “Thou shalt not kill those who are in the World Trade Center”

So now I have concluded that since it does not say anywhere, “thou shalt not kill the unborn.” Then that means the Bible does not condemn abortion. Take it up with him.

The closed thread that I am quoting can be found here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=18301&page=1&pp=100

 

[Psalm45_9]

Psalm45:9:

Sorry to give you heartattack, let me explain, read this over the intercession of the Saints in Heaven, the thread is now closed:

When some one said that the Bible does not say that the Jews did not pray to Abraham, I said:

YAQUBOS answered:

I responded:

YAQBUOS replied:

So now I have concluded that since it does not say anywhere, “thou shalt not kill the unborn.” Then that means the Bible does not condemn abortion, but Apostolic tradition does. Take it up with him.

The closed thread that I am quoting can be found here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=18301&page=1&pp=100

 

[Psalm45_9]

Read this over the intercession of the Saints in Heaven:

All quotes are from a closed thread.

When some one said that the Bible does not say that the Jews did not pray to Abraham, I said:
Psalm45:9:

It does not say anywhere Bible that they did not pray to Abraham. It does not say anywhere in the Bible that we can not pray to the Saints in Heaven. Again and again, they are alive, in Christ’s one body. Revelation shows that they are not resting.

YAQUBOS answered:

YAQUBOS:

It does not say anywhere in the Bible that it is a sin to destroy the World Trade Center… So are those terrorists blameless?

I responded:

“Thou shalt not kill.” (Exodus 20:13)

YAQBUOS replied:

YAQUBOS:

But it doesn’t say: “Thou shalt not kill those who are in the World Trade Center”

So now I have concluded that since it does not say anywhere, “thou shalt not kill the unborn.” Then that means the Bible does not condemn abortion, but Apostolic Tradition does. Take it up with him.

The closed thread that I am quoting can be found here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=18301&page=1&pp=100

 

[jphilapy]

spokeword and yaqubos are not the same person.

 

[Psalm45_9]

SPOKENWORD:

THOU SHALL NOT KILL.

Sorry to give you a heart attack, let me explain myself.

Read this over the intercession of the Saints in Heaven:

All quotes are from a closed thread.

When some one said that the Bible does not say that the Jews did not pray to Abraham, I said:
Psalm45:9:

It does not say anywhere Bible that they did not pray to Abraham. It does not say anywhere in the Bible that we can not pray to the Saints in Heaven. Again and again, they are alive, in Christ’s one body. Revelation shows that they are not resting.

YAQUBOS answered:

YAQUBOS:

It does not say anywhere in the Bible that it is a sin to destroy the World Trade Center… So are those terrorists blameless?

I responded:

“Thou shalt not kill.” (Exodus 20:13)

YAQBUOS replied:

YAQUBOS:

But it doesn’t say: “Thou shalt not kill those who are in the World Trade Center”

So now I have concluded that since it does not say anywhere, “thou shalt not kill the unborn.” Then that means the Bible does not condemn abortion, but Apostolic Tradition does. Take it up with him.

The closed thread that I am quoting can be found here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=18301&page=1&pp=100

 

[Psalm45_9]

YAQUBOS:

spokeword and yaqubos are not the same person.

You mean to tell me that two Bible believing Christians are interpreting the Bible differently?

 

[jphilapy]

Jeff said: "
spokeword and yaqubos are not the same person.
"
Psalm45:9:

You mean to tell me that two Bible believing Christians are interpreting the Bible differently?

Funny thing is, you and I are missing each other here. First you posted, then I replied. However when I replied, your post disappeared. When I came back my post was before yours, when it should have been after. Anyway when you replied the system quoted it as yaqubos as saying what I said.

Anyway I see a difference of interpretration among catholics as well. Why is that?

Jeff

 

[jphilapy]

Now it appears you have deleted your post again Yes this is live posting!!

jphilapy:

Jeff said: "
spokeword and yaqubos are not the same person.
"

Funny thing is, you and I are missing each other here. First you posted, then I replied. However when I replied, your post disappeared. When I came back my post was before yours, when it should have been after. Anyway when you replied the system quoted it as yaqubos as saying what I said.

Anyway I see a difference of interpretration among catholics as well. Why is that?

Jeff