There’s No Gay Gene, Says Scientists

[BellsMom]

There is no conclusive evidence that homosexual attraction is caused by biological factors. If there were conclusive evidence of this we wouldn’t still be debating it. There’s no such thing as a “gay gene”.

And unlike being able to know what race a baby is, there’s no way to look at a room full of babies and say that any of them are “gay”. Also, hermaphrodites are extremely rare and are typically asexual, not homosexual.

Most likely something happened to someone to cause them to believe they are homosexual. For example, a baby gets molested, and no one in the family ever finds out. Later, the kid starts to think he’s “gay” but doesn’t make the connection to this repressed memory.

A married couple fights all the time and get divorced. Their daughter takes sides with her father in the fight. She grows to resent her mother so much that she can’t reconcile the fact that she is the same gender as the one she has grown to hate. So she convinces herself that she isn’t really that gender, adopts label of being “gay” and thinks that she needs to change her sex (which is actually impossible since one can’t change their DNA).

A girl gets molested by her father or is raped by some other male and then develops a strong resentment of men because of this bad experience.

A baby boy starts playing with some dolls, and the family either freaks out about it or they start telling the boy that he’s “gay”. He internalizes the label. This is labeling and the self-fulfilling prophecy.

There are many other possible things that can happen to a child to influence them this way. In these cases, it was more the influence of outside factors which the child didn’t choose to have. But not choosing these circumstances of childhood experience is not the same as being born that way.

“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.”

Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300

Being “gay” is purely behavioral and not biological since their bodies are made for heterosexual procreation. For example, a lesbian can wear pants and think that she is a man, but her body apparently didn’t get the memo since it still has a womb for procreating with a man.

This whole molestation idea makes no sense.

So boys who are molested as children by an adult male grow up to to want to have sex with men, but little girls who are abused by an adult male grow up to want to have sex with women?

Nonsense.

 

[cornbread_r2]

…]

“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.”

Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300

…]

A critique of the cited study.

 

[livingwordunity]

This whole molestation idea makes no sense.

So boys who are molested as children by an adult male grow up to to want to have sex with men, but little girls who are abused by an adult male grow up to want to have sex with women?

Nonsense.

It doesn’t make sense because you read it wrong. The study says girls who were molested by women. Here it is again:

“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.”

Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300

 

[estesbob]

Indeed, this shouting of “AHA!! SEE!! It is a choice!!” by some is silliness as no professionals I know ever claimed there was a “gay gene”.

THe APA and most mental health professionals understand homosexuality, like nearly all psychic phenomena, a combination of biological, psychological, and social aspects.

It is not a choice and once established is very fixed. THere is no “changing” of a sexual orientation.

The behavior is

 

[buffalo]

Indeed, this shouting of “AHA!! SEE!! It is a choice!!” by some is silliness as no professionals I know ever claimed there was a “gay gene”.

THe APA and most mental health professionals understand homosexuality, like nearly all psychic phenomena, a combination of biological, psychological, and social aspects.

It is not a choice and once established is very fixed. THere is no “changing” of a sexual orientation.

This new model opens the door to “naturalizing” the expression after birth.

 

[ringil]

The behavior is

Yes, homosexual behavior is a choice.

 

[Morwenna]

Indeed, this shouting of “AHA!! SEE!! It is a choice!!” by some is silliness as no professionals I know ever claimed there was a “gay gene”.

THe APA and most mental health professionals understand homosexuality, like nearly all psychic phenomena, a combination of biological, psychological, and social aspects.

It is not a choice and once established is very fixed. THere is no “changing” of a sexual orientation.

Thankfully, every day is a chance to learn something new and broaden our horizons

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9766263&postcount=8

 

[HansTrappist]

Human Nature was created a certain way. Going all the way back to Genesis we read that God decided that it was not good that Adam should be alone. So what did he do? He created Eve. He did not create another man. He then told the two creatures to be fruitful and multiply. So right from the beginning we see what the purpose of Sex was: unitive and procreative. Pleasure was secondary.

Now, this is how I view this whole discussion of Homosexuality. After the Fall, Human Nature was damaged. Death and Decay were introduced. This is the present state of affairs. Human Nature is damaged. Our Sexual nature is damaged. Think of it this way. Some people are blessed with great bodies. Others are not. Why? Answer: consequence of the Fall. Some people are blessed with great intellect. Others are not. Why? Answer: the Fall has damaged us. Some people are blessed with a healthy mind. Others suffer from a variety of mental illnesses. Why? Again, the Fall. You see the pattern. It applies to Human Sexuality. But you will notice something. There is an Order towards which Human Nature aspires. It is the Order that existed prior to the Fall. It is the Order of the Glorified Body: perfect Beauty, perfect Intellect, a healthy Mind, etc. Now, we all each have our own particular talent, our own particular sharing in the Beauty that existed prior to the Fall. But we are also all damaged and all have our own unique cross to bear in the pilgrimage of this life. The person with the perfect body might suffer from something that does not afflict the person who suffers from a damaged sexuality, and vice versa. This is something anyone who has gone through puberty and has attended high school, quickly learns.

The Church teaches that a Homosexual “orientation” is not sinful but that only homosexual acts are sinful. A Homosexual orientation is the result of the Fall. It is a cross. But it is no more a cross than a person who may have been born a hermaphrodite, or a person who is born mentally or physically disabled, ect. We all have crosses to bear, but for some strange reason certain homosexual activists would like the rest of us to believe that their crosses are somehow special. What’s even worse, there is now an attempt to FORCE the Church to lie about the truth. This will never happen because the gates of hell will never triumph but it is ashame and cruel that many innocent Catholics are being put to the test in this manner. And what’s truly ironic is that many homosexuals that I know became Catholic BECAUSE OF the Chruch’s teaching on Homosexuality. They were being starved by the lies of the prince of this world and had finally found liberation in the Church’s teaching.

Anyway, just my two cents worth.

 

[Tony_the_mad]

I never understood some people obsession with whether or not there is a gay gene. It makes no difference either way. This is one topic for which I am in the odd position of being both extremely conservative and extremely liberal so I have sympathies with both sides, but I still don’t understand.

If you are a liberal why would you care if the gay gene did not exist? So what if it is a ‘choice’? I am too fat. Did I choose to be fat? Obviously no! Did I make the choices that led me to become fat and knowing full well the would make me fat? Unfortunately, yes. Being a liberal means being generous. God has been liberal to us in generosity, despite the fact that we are sinners. We have to liberal in that same spirit of generosity toward everyone, even those who make bad choices. I am not saying that I believe that there is no gay gene, but that the presence of the gay gene does not alter my sympathy toward those who are gay. They are trying to live their lives the best that they can. Who am I to say that they are worse sinners than I am?

If you are a conservative why would you care if the gay gene did exist? Just because a behavior is genetic does not make it right nor normal. There are many psychological diseases that may have a strong genetic component, that does not make them normal. If there was a ‘serial killer gene’ or a ‘kleptomaniac gene’ or a ‘foot fetish gene’ it would not make those behaviors good nor normal. Nor should it affect our sympathy for these people. We should have sympathy for all people even the worst sinners.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Might want to read the original paper

…Our model predicts that homosexuality is part of a wider phenomenon in which recently evolved androgen-influenced traits commonly display gonad-trait discordances at substantial frequency, and that the molecular feature underlying most homosexuality is not DNA polymorphism(s), but epi-marks that evolved to canalize sexual dimorphic development that sometimes carryover across generations and contribute to gonadtrait
discordances in opposite-sex descendants.

1.They did not find a gay gene.
2. The epimarks may be enviromentally caused
3. Homosexually seems to be an in the womb malfunction that expresses itself after birth.
4. It is a theoretical model

---

Just an Idea - remove the false estrogens from our environment.

Also, these switches may be able to be corrected in the womb.

Testosterone therapy for males in the womb?

At most, what could be claimed here is a predisposition towards a certain orientation, that is far from establishing a determination towards that inclination.

Your point is a good one. If environmental factors are partially or wholly responsible then adjustments there could alter the orientation. Is this kind of switch “error” desirable since it entails a kind of biological dysfunction?

That being the important issue, then the question becomes should sexual orientation be the right of the individual to determine for themselves irrespective of their biological makeup? In which case the argument becomes essentially one of choice and not “orientation” or predisposition.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It is not a choice and once established is very fixed. THere is no “changing” of a sexual orientation.

Obviously there can be such a change, as many affected people have so testified, including right here on CAF.

That’s not to say it isn’t “very fixed”. But then, pedophilia appears to be, if anything, even more “fixed”. Notwithstanding that, it does not mean no one should seek cures for such abnormalities. Unfortunately, political pressure mightily discourages even research into the causes of homosexuality other than the politically correct one.

 

[LisaA]

I never understood some people obsession with whether or not there is a gay gene. It makes no difference either way. This is one topic for which I am in the odd position of being both extremely conservative and extremely liberal so I have sympathies with both sides, but I still don’t understand.

If you are a liberal why would you care if the gay gene did not exist? So what if it is a ‘choice’? I am too fat. Did I choose to be fat? Obviously no! Did I make the choices that led me to become fat and knowing full well the would make me fat? Unfortunately, yes. Being a liberal means being generous. God has been liberal to us in generosity, despite the fact that we are sinners. We have to liberal in that same spirit of generosity toward everyone, even those who make bad choices. I am not saying that I believe that there is no gay gene, but that the presence of the gay gene does not alter my sympathy toward those who are gay. They are trying to live their lives the best that they can. Who am I to say that they are worse sinners than I am?

If you are a conservative why would you care if the gay gene did exist? Just because a behavior is genetic does not make it right nor normal. There are many psychological diseases that may have a strong genetic component, that does not make them normal. If there was a ‘serial killer gene’ or a ‘kleptomaniac gene’ or a ‘foot fetish gene’ it would not make those behaviors good nor normal. Nor should it affect our sympathy for these people. We should have sympathy for all people even the worst sinners.

Yes true but the reason we “care” is not because of any personal feelings necessarily but because the homosexual activists want very much to attribute SSA to something out of the person’s control. Therefore it becomes “natural” and should therefore become equivalent to normal male/female sexual activity.

This then allows homosexual activists to infiltrate schools,the media, and politics forcing the rest of us to accept their behavior in public, in our lives, in our schools and I am sure the hope is eventually in our Church. As you probably know, a number of Catholic charities have shut down adoption programs because the Church will not adopt a child to a homosexual. There are lawsuits against private businesses that refuse to serve homosexuals…wedding photographers, a small private B&B, etc.

The homosexual activists are NOT content with not being persecuted (certainly justified in this) but insist that the majority recognize if not laud their sexual activities. For the vast majority of heterosexuals, our private lives are private. Homosexual activists want public displays and public affirmation.

This is the reason we must fight this agenda. I do not mean being uncharitable, harrassing, persecuting or demeaning those with SSA but the agenda of equivalence and complete integration into every facet of life.

Lisa

 

[Presurmksdimnds]

why would you care if the gay gene did exist? Just because a behavior is genetic does not make it right nor normal.

Simply put, and all that needed to be said.

19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. 20 These are what defile you.

 

[LisaA]

Obviously there can be such a change, as many affected people have so testified, including right here on CAF.

That’s not to say it isn’t “very fixed”. But then, pedophilia appears to be, if anything, even more “fixed”. Notwithstanding that, it does not mean no one should seek cures for such abnormalities. Unfortunately, political pressure mightily discourages even research into the causes of homosexuality other than the politically correct one.

Exactly! The danger is the infiltration and propaganda in our schools. Confused youngsters could easily be influenced by the theories that homosexuality is genetic, fixed, there at birth just like certain physical characteristics.

Adult homosexual males can be predatory. We’ve seen this in out beloved Church. It happens in the Boy Scouts, in sports (Jerry Sandusky anyone?), in schools. I used to see this a lot in the show horse world. Young men would be hired as grooms and assistants and then carefully cultivated toward the homosexual lifestyle which is very much accepted in this world. Did the young men already have SSA? Perhaps but as with any adult/child sexual predation, this is very damaging to the young person who may simply be seeking approval and acceptance.

That sexuality is a fluid element in life (unlike our chromosomes which cannot be changed with plastic surgery) is obvious. But the current political climate attempts to influence otherwise. As Ridge noted certain behaviors can become ‘etched’ in the brain and difficult if not impossible to eradicate. Influencing a child TOWARD a homosexual expression seems like an obvious way to a self fulfilling prophecy.

Lisa

 

[JimR-OCDS]

LisaA

Exactly! The danger is the infiltration and propaganda in our schools. Confused youngsters could easily be influenced by the theories that homosexuality is genetic, fixed, there at birth just like certain physical characteristics.

So you assumption is that homosexuals are made, not born. There is no evidence supporting your claim, but just the opposite.

Adult homosexual males can be predatory

So can heterosexuals. In fact, two cases of pedophilia just this past week in my area, all involved married men.

One case last summer involving a man from my parish, was again a married man. His involvement with scouting helped him to have contact with girl scouts and he got caught accidentally emailing a photo of a little girl, to the mother of the girl.

We’ve seen this in out beloved Church.

True, the majority of sex abuse cases by priest were homosexual priest with homosexual teenage boys.

But this doesn’t mean homosexuals are more sexual predators than heterosexuals.

The fact is, that in the days when gays were more discriminated against, it drove gay males into the priesthood, because they had no other alternative for their life, not being attracted to women and married life with them. I’m not saying this is the science behind it, but it could be the case and also one of the reasons we see less men becoming priest these days, because homosexual males can live their lives in the open, whereas in the past, they stayed behind closed doors.

It happens in the Boy Scouts, in sports (Jerry Sandusky anyone?), in schools.

Sandusky is a married man, not a homosexual, but a pedophile.

I used to see this a lot in the show horse world. Young men would be hired as grooms and assistants and then carefully cultivated toward the homosexual lifestyle which is very much accepted in this world. Did the young men already have SSA? Perhaps but as with any adult/child sexual predation, this is very damaging to the young person who may simply be seeking approval and acceptance.

To use your words, “you’re over stating your case.”

There is no evidence that gays are made by environment and more that biological factors are the cause.

That being said, although homosexual orientation is not a choice, the acts are, just as they are for heterosexuals and not all heterosexuals live a life of chastity.

Jim

 

[LisaA]

LisaA

So you assumption is that homosexuals are made, not born. There is no evidence supporting your claim, but just the opposite.

So can heterosexuals. In fact, two cases of pedophilia just this past week in my area, all involved married men.

One case last summer involving a man from my parish, was again a married man. His involvement with scouting helped him to have contact with girl scouts and he got caught accidentally emailing a photo of a little girl, to the mother of the girl.

True, the majority of sex abuse cases by priest were homosexual priest with homosexual teenage boys.

But this doesn’t mean homosexuals are more sexual predators than heterosexuals.

The fact is, that in the days when gays were more discriminated against, it drove gay males into the priesthood, because they had no other alternative for their life, not being attracted to women and married life with them. I’m not saying this is the science behind it, but it could be the case and also one of the reasons we see less men becoming priest these days, because homosexual males can live their lives in the open, whereas in the past, they stayed behind closed doors.

Sandusky is a married man, not a homosexual, but a pedophile.

To use your words, “you’re over stating your case.”

There is no evidence that gays are made by environment and more that biological factors are the cause.

That being said, although homosexual orientation is not a choice, the acts are, just as they are for heterosexuals and not all heterosexuals live a life of chastity.

Jim

You don’t bother to read what I wrote. I am in agreement that there may be a biological basis for some expression of homosexuality. I believe, and I think there is plenty of evidence that it’s like alcoholism, mental illness or specific behaviors. It runs in families and the OPs article confirmed this theory.

Sandusky is CLEARLY a homosexual. But like many homosexuals he was able to ‘pass’ by marrying and appearing to be heterosexual. If he were simply attracted to children, more likely he would be attracted to FEMALE children were he a heterosexual. That he’s married is not relevant to his sexuality. Trust me Jim, I’ve known MANY married homosexuals. Some eventually came out, others kept their sauce on the side. Spend some time in the homosexual community. You’ll see this is true.

I do agree that in an era where homosexuals were in the closet, the priesthood was an excellent way of hiding. OTOH we have seen a decline in female religious, perhaps proportionally greater than for priests. This could hardly be due to lebians having to hide out. People have more options now, the Church is not nearly as influential in peoples’ lives, the families are smaller and thus no child to be dedicated toward the priesthood. Don’t mix apples and orangess.

Actually there ARE statistics that homosexual males are more predatory on a percentage basis. I’ll dig it up if you insist. I did a lot of study on the subject when I was converting at the height of the priest abuse scandal. I totally understood what was happening because I knew the problem was not celibacy but basically arrested sexual development and SSA attraction. The priests were not pedophiles although they were called such by the MSM determined to demonize the Church. They were predatory males with SSA in a position to act upon this tendency in a most destructive and unfortunate manner.

Again I did not say SSA was totally environmental and also dispute that it’s totally biological. My concern is not with the reason but with the destructive force of a militant homosexual agenda. What Joe and Jack do in bed is of ZERO interest to me. I just do not want to have it become a cause celebre and that is clearly the plan.

Lisa

 

[TheAtheist]

If it’s not genetic, there could be a cure.

However, if not seen as a disorder, I wonder if they’re even looking for a cure.

The paper which is being discussed about on this thread has been makign the rounds amongst my social circle/academic network.

I’ll spare you all the intensely detailed discussions i’m having with my postdocs, but I did feel compelled to point something out.

Scientists, well most of us, tend to be incredibly wary about when a result gets released into the public. Partially because of what’s occurring on this very thread (and also the rather celebratory posts that are occurring on other forums counter to your own viewpoint).

But, to paraphrase one of my colleagues: “So what does it matter?”

The current debates that occur regarding homosexuality is currently bifrucated around whether or not there is a “choice” or whether its “genetic.”

But even if I were to prove this to be the case (and i really honetly could care less either way), that wouldn’t end the debate.

If i proved it were a choice, you folks would rejoice while advocates for the opposing side would repackage the whole debate in terms of Freedom of Will.

If I proved it were genetic (or in this case, epigenetic), they would rejoice and someone in this camp would make the move all my colleagues are predicting - the rhetorical shift would go from “choice” to “search for a cure.”

In either scenario, my profession/discipline didn’t really “solve” anything for anyone. The contours of the debate will simply be reshaped.

 

[buffalo]

At most, what could be claimed here is a predisposition towards a certain orientation, that is far from establishing a determination towards that inclination.

Your point is a good one. If environmental factors are partially or wholly responsible then adjustments there could alter the orientation. Is this kind of switch “error” desirable since it entails a kind of biological dysfunction?

That being the important issue, then the question becomes should sexual orientation be the right of the individual to determine for themselves irrespective of their biological makeup? In which case the argument becomes essentially one of choice and not “orientation” or predisposition.

Then the same question could be asked if you have an inclination towards drug abuse. Should that be the right of the individual to decide?

Right now mothers are aborting babies because of prenatal testing for Downe’s.

Interesting questions, indeed.

 

[estesbob]

Simply put, and all that needed to be said.

19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander. 20 These are what defile you.

it appears we have went from ‘the devil made me do it’ to ‘my genes made me do it’

 

[buffalo]

it appears we have went from ‘the devil made me do it’ to ‘my genes made me do it’

Actually the are the same for one mans sin…

However, the study and most studies to date do not show a homosexual gene.