There’s No Gay Gene, Says Scientists

[ringil]

Obviously there can be such a change, as many affected people have so testified, including right here on CAF.

That’s not to say it isn’t “very fixed”. But then, pedophilia appears to be, if anything, even more “fixed”. Notwithstanding that, it does not mean no one should seek cures for such abnormalities. Unfortunately, political pressure mightily discourages even research into the causes of homosexuality other than the politically correct one.

Research shows that individuals with a fixed sexual orientation do not “change” their orientation.

Efforts to “change” orientation through -pseudo-religious-therapy have been found to be ineffective at best and harmful at worst.

 

[LisaA]

But, to paraphrase one of my colleagues: “So what does it matter?”

The current debates that occur regarding homosexuality is currently bifrucated around whether or not there is a “choice” or whether its “genetic.”

But even if I were to prove this to be the case (and i really honetly could care less either way), that wouldn’t end the debate.

If i proved it were a choice, you folks would rejoice while advocates for the opposing side would repackage the whole debate in terms of Freedom of Will.

If I proved it were genetic (or in this case, epigenetic), they would rejoice and someone in this camp would make the move all my colleagues are predicting - the rhetorical shift would go from “choice” to “search for a cure.”

In either scenario, my profession/discipline didn’t really “solve” anything for anyone. The contours of the debate will simply be reshaped.

It matters a lot Mr Atheist. If a characteristic is found to be genetic, out of a person’s control such as their race or gender, then all manner of excuses and accommodations will follow. Further if it is determined to be genetic, born that way (Lady Gaga weighs in here as a noted scientist!), unchangeable, then along with accommdations are demonization of any individual or any group (can we say the Church?) that refuses to comport with the politically correct thinking.

Lately a large foundation has withdrawn from supporting Boy Scouts because they do not allow overt homosexuality (trust me there are gay scouts and gay scoutmasters and always have been…it’s the PUBLIC display that is not allowed). Were homosexuality not the latest poster child for bigotry this wouldn’t have occurred.

The reality that the vast majority of scouts have not gone into puberty and ANY sexual talk or action is completely inappropriate doesn’t matter. The reality that predatory homosexuals seek out situations where they encounter helpless young men (mostly males) is ignored.

Yes Mr Atheist, it matters a lot. Like not allowing alcoholics to drive is not being bigoted against people facing this challenge, having some sense about one’s sexual nature and how it’s expressed and where it’s expressed is also not bigoted. However the homosexual lobby is fighting hard against any institution that stands between them and their agenda.

Lisa

 

[ringil]

It matters a lot Mr Atheist. If a characteristic is found to be genetic, out of a person’s control such as their race or gender, then all manner of excuses and accommodations will follow. Further if it is determined to be genetic, born that way (Lady Gaga weighs in here as a noted scientist!), unchangeable, then along with accommdations are demonization of any individual or any group (can we say the Church?) that refuses to comport with the politically correct thinking.

Lately a large foundation has withdrawn from supporting Boy Scouts because they do not allow overt homosexuality (trust me there are gay scouts and gay scoutmasters and always have been…it’s the PUBLIC display that is not allowed). Were homosexuality not the latest poster child for bigotry this wouldn’t have occurred.

The reality that the vast majority of scouts have not gone into puberty and ANY sexual talk or action is completely inappropriate doesn’t matter. The reality that predatory homosexuals seek out situations where they encounter helpless young men (mostly males) is ignored.

Yes Mr Atheist, it matters a lot. Like not allowing alcoholics to drive is not being bigoted against people facing this challenge, having some sense about one’s sexual nature and how it’s expressed and where it’s expressed is also not bigoted. However the homosexual lobby is fighting hard against any institution that stands between them and their agenda.

Lisa

But Ms. Lisa, no one I know of, including licensed therapists, psychiatrist, and psychologist, and certainly not the APA, claims that homosexuality is simply genetic. It is a result of bio-psycho-social factors.

Long story short… Homosexuality is not a choice.

And Ms. Lisa you refer to Lady Gaga the scientist. Well, what about the CAF posters positing their firm findings and conclusion on the subject. Are these individuals scientist?

 

[estesbob]

But Ms. Lisa, no one I know of and certainly not the APA claims that homosexuality is simply genetic. It is a result of bio-psycho-social factors.

Long story short… Homosexuality is not a choice.

And Ms. Lisa you refer to Lady Gaga the scientist. Well, what about the CAF posters positing their firm findings and conclusion on the subject. Are these individuals scientist?

No-we are people that adhere to the teachings of the one true church. if one’s propensity to engage in homosexual behavior cannot be changed what are we to make of all the testimonials( many here on CAF) we have seen from people who have put the homosexual lifestyle behind them and are now involved in healthy heterosexual relationships?

 

[ringil]

No-we are people that adhere to the teachings of the one true church. if one’s propensity to engage in homosexual behavior cannot be changed what are we to make of all the testimonials( many here on CAF) we have seen from people who have put the homosexual lifestyle behind them and are now involved in healthy heterosexual relationships?

I know scientific research and the opinions of professional, and the clients who I have worked with.

What can I say of anonymous internet postings on a website- and though you may have the highest opinion of the veracity of what you read from posters on CAF- I have a critical eye.

I acknowledge what the Church states, that homosexual individuals are called to a life of chastity and even of celibacy.

 

[TheAtheist]

It matters a lot Mr Atheist. If a characteristic is found to be genetic, out of a person’s control such as their race or gender, then all manner of excuses and accommodations will follow.

And are your saying that if it were 100% proven that homosexuality is an inheritable trait, everyone on this board would just throw their hands up in the air and call it a day?

Of course not.

That’s the point i’m trying to make.

It actually doesn’t matter whatever result we “vend out” to you from over here in laboratory world.

If it is a result you (or they in the LGBT community) dislike, you’ll just shift the ground of your debate.

You’ve even seen it on this thread - if the posited SA epi-mark actually does express a phenotype for homosexuality, the response will be “search for a cure.”

Which gets very…very…very…interesting in terms of how far parents will wish to alter the genetic makeup of their children. Some of my students who have gone on to become endocrinologists and genetic counselors already consult for private insitutions that already screen out applicants (like ~ pre-school chidlren for instance) based on their genetic profile.

We’re slowly creeping up on the point where we’ll be able to select the traits of our progeny, manipulating the probabilities/propensities for certain outcomes (taller, eye color, mathematical ability,e tc)…provided of course you can afford the treatment.

What kind of world will we be living in then I wonder?

 

[LisaA]

**But Ms. Lisa, no one I know of, including licensed therapists, psychiatrist, and psychologist, and certainly not the APA, claims that homosexuality is simply genetic. It is a result of bio-psycho-social factors. **
Long story short… Homosexuality is not a choice.

And Ms. Lisa you refer to Lady Gaga the scientist. Well, what about the CAF posters positing their firm findings and conclusion on the subject. Are these individuals scientist?

And that is EXACTLY what I’ve said I believe. In fact I’ve said this repeatedly. There are clearly mulitple factors involved. Further I have stated point blank SSA is not a choice as one would choose to attend a football game.

OTOH as many have pointed out, while SSA may be a compelling condition, no one needs to act upon it if the CHOOSE not to. I think we all know the difference but homosexual apologists love to demean anyone who doesn’t embrace homosexual expression as just another technique in one’s sexual grab bag.

And for at least the tenth time, the reason I believe it matters is the homosexual agenda which I believe is damaging to our society. Truly I do not CARE what people do in private. It’s the militant PUBLIC displays, lawsuits, legislation and demonstrations that I oppose.

Lisa

 

[Dawnia]

Sandusky is CLEARLY a homosexual. But like many homosexuals he was able to ‘pass’ by marrying and appearing to be heterosexual. If he were simply attracted to children, more likely he would be attracted to FEMALE children were he a heterosexual. That he’s married is not relevant to his sexuality. Trust me Jim, I’ve known MANY married homosexuals. Some eventually came out, others kept their sauce on the side. Spend some time in the homosexual community. You’ll see this is true.
Lisa

Sex is not always about sexual desire…it can also be about dominance, power, control, stress relief, a bargaining tool, etc. Sandusky could very well be a heterosexual. There is no umbiased objective way to determine attractions. It could be just as likely that he was attracted to the power and control over the boys who were easy targets and sex was the expression of that power and control.

 

[J_Peterson]

Sex is not always about sexual desire…it can also be about dominance, power, control, stress relief, a bargaining tool, etc. Sandusky could very well be a heterosexual. There is no umbiased objective way to determine attractions. It could be just as likely that he was attracted to the power and control over the boys who were easy targets and sex was the expression of that power and control.

That’s a good point. These examples aren’t consensual sex, it’s rape.

 

[epan]

sourcefednews.com/theres-no-gay-gene-says-scientists/

There’s a link to the research article as well.

Interesting. I imagine there will be more studies along these lines. I seem to recall some well designed studies which concluded that homosexuality increased in frequency with the occurrence of homosexuality in the mother’s immediate male relatives. This would tend to be confirmed by this study, if I am understanding the abstract correctly.

 

[StevenFrancis]

The actual Church teaching on homosexuality can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church at:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

While this section deals specifically with homosexuality, I recommend that everyone also read the entire chapter/section from which this comes. It covers man and woman, marriage, chastity, sexual union, and violations against chastity of all kinds. This applies to all persons, whether hetero or homosexual in their attraction to others.

For anyone who experiences same sex attraction, and accepts that it is not God’s plan for them, please check out this website for a number of respectful, and useful resources offered in a loving, honest way.

couragerc.net/

A good talk on this matter:
marquette.edu/faber/Rev.PaulCheck.shtml

May God bless all of us who travel the journey of life, open to truth, open to love, and open to Jesus Christ.

Yours in Christ,

Steven

 

[epan]

The actual Church teaching on homosexuality can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church at:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

While this section deals specifically with homosexuality, I recommend that everyone also read the entire chapter/section from which this comes. It covers man and woman, marriage, chastity, sexual union, and violations against chastity of all kinds. This applies to all persons, whether hetero or homosexual in their attraction to others.

For anyone who experiences same sex attraction, and accepts that it is not God’s plan for them, please check out this website for a number of respectful, and useful resources offered in a loving, honest way.

couragerc.net/

A good talk on this matter:
marquette.edu/faber/Rev.PaulCheck.shtml

May God bless all of us who travel the journey of life, open to truth, open to love, and open to Jesus Christ.

Yours in Christ,

Steven

So, let’s assume for a moment that the results of this study are accepted by the scientific community, and sexual orientation is accepted as being genetically determined. I already see some problems with this happening. For example, while identical twins have a much higher likelihood of being gay, there are also many cases of identical twins having differing sexual orientations.

But, if a strong genetic link were found, would this be likely to change the opinion expressed in the Catechism?

 

[Dawnia]

That’s a good point. These examples aren’t consensual sex, it’s rape.

Even with consentual sex, the motivation isn’t always attraction.

 

[buffalo]

So, let’s assume for a moment that the results of this study are accepted by the scientific community, and sexual orientation is accepted as being genetically determined.

Where in the paper are you getting this?

 

[Dawnia]

So, let’s assume for a moment that the results of this study are accepted by the scientific community, and sexual orientation is accepted as being genetically determined. I already see some problems with this happening. For example, while identical twins have a much higher likelihood of being gay, there are also many cases of identical twins having differing sexual orientations.

But, if a strong genetic link were found, would this be likely to change the opinion expressed in the Catechism?

Doubt it. Biologically based or not, it still isn’t open to life and there is no sexual complementarity.

Also, other sins that have biological basis haven’t changed. Murder is still a sin even if committed by a psychopath. Adultry is still a sin even though the person is attracted to someone other than their spouse.

 

[fix]

But, if a strong genetic link were found, would this be likely to change the opinion expressed in the Catechism?

No, of course not. Why would it? I always wonder why that argument matters at all?

 

[epan]

No, of course not. Why would it? I always wonder why that argument matters at all?

Because if the major objection to same sex relations is Natural Law which since Aquinas has been formulated to preclude non “generative” sexual relations, then the establishment of a strong genetic link to homosexuality would more than suggest that 13th century thinking was inherently wrong, and that homosexuality is actually a natural phenomenon. A genetically conferred trait cannot be seen to be in opposition to the idea of Natural Law. The entire argument regarding procreative sex is based on the idea of biological compatibility, which is genetically conferred.

If this were true, then the foundation of the catechism could be seen to be corrupt.

If that were true, then the infallibility doctrine could be seen as false.

So, something as seemingly innocuous as showing that one of the premises of “Natural Law” are faulty could have far reaching consequences.

 

[fix]

Because if the major objection to same sex relations is Natural Law which since Aquinas has been formulated to preclude non “generative” sexual relations, then the establishment of a strong genetic link to homosexuality would more than suggest that 13th century thinking was inherently wrong, and that homosexuality is actually a natural phenomenon. A genetically conferred trait cannot be seen to be in opposition to the idea of Natural Law. The entire argument regarding procreative sex is based on the idea of biological compatibility, which is genetically conferred.

If this were true, then the foundation of the catechism could be seen to be corrupt.

If that were true, then the infallibility doctrine could be seen as false.

So, something as seemingly innocuous as showing that one of the premises of “Natural Law” are faulty could have far reaching consequences.

We live in a fallen world. For your position to be accurate we need to redefine health and disease, normal and abnormal. That some trait may have some organic component to it does not mean such a thing was ordained that way from the start. Just like blindness is a physical evil, so can many other traits be physical evils unwilled by God.

It is not simply a biological issue, it is a philosophical issue.

 

[fix]

What if some scientific groups decides they find a genetic predisposition towards adultery? Would you think that means humans were made to act on adultery?

 

[fix]

Doubt it. Biologically based or not, it still isn’t open to life and there is no sexual complementarity.

Also, other sins that have biological basis haven’t changed. Murder is still a sin even if committed by a psychopath. Adultry is still a sin even though the person is attracted to someone other than their spouse.

Right we live in a fallen world. If we start with an error then our reasoning will be wrong. People mostly start with a blank slate thinking anything goes simply because it is found in nature.