There Is No Catholic Case For Biden

[RidgeSprinter]

interesting read on when abortion is not so black and white on a personal level.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pro-life-movement-then-widowed-100142871.html

I was in the pro-life movement. But then, widowed with 6 kids, I prepared for an abortion.​

I remember a story here many years ago. A sister got pregnant underaged. The father kicked her out of the house. a few years later the younger daughter became pregnant at age 16. Fearing the same ousting, she had an abortion.

Yes it is not so black and white.

 

[KMC]

Yes it is not so black and white.

From a moral perspective, it is black and white. Abortion kills an innocent life. Certainly there are painful circumstances surrounding various cases, but the immorality of abortion is clear:

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law

 

[Canvas]

Yes, Pope XIII.

Francis’s points about property rights being secondary is covered in the Catechism. They aren’t new ides in Catholic Social teaching and are actually quite traditional.

 

[Canvas]

Read the entire section here CCC #2401-2463.

2403 The right to private property , acquired or received in a just way, does not do away with the original gift of the earth to the whole of mankind. The universal destination of goods remains primordial, even if the promotion of the common good requires respect for the right to private property and its exercise.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a7.htm

 

[Canvas]

From the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church:

177. Christian tradition has never recognized the right to private property as absolute and untouchable : “On the contrary, it has always understood this right within the broader context of the right common to all to use the goods of the whole of creation: the right to private property is subordinated to the right to common use, to the fact that goods are meant for everyone”[372]. The principle of the universal destination of goods is an affirmation both of God’s full and perennial lordship over every reality and of the requirement that the goods of creation remain ever destined to the development of the whole person and of all humanity[373]. This principle is not opposed to the right to private property[374] but indicates the need to regulate it. Private property, in fact, regardless of the concrete forms of the regulations and juridical norms relative to it, is in its essence only an instrument for respecting the principle of the universal destination of goods ; in the final analysis, therefore, it is not an end but a means [375].

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...peace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html

 

[SantaFe]

actually there IS quite the Catholic case for Biden, as I just posted this in family life:

Jeannie Gaffigan: My loved ones told me ‘real’ Catholics vote for Trump. Here’s my response. | America Magazine

 

[QContinuum]

Abortions WILL DECLINE if they are deemed illegal, because even those with little to no moral compass know that if something is illegal it is wrong. “The law is a (moral) teacher.”

No, it isn’t. If it were banned tomorrow, then middle class and wealthy women would book flights to Canada to have the procedure done there. Or have a prescription written discreetly by an agreeable physician for a “hormonal issue” for misoprostol and/or mifeprostone. Or a quiet procedure in a private clinic will be arranged.

Poor women will buy black market drugs, either online or through other sources, or have a procedure done in an illegal clinic.

They will either be successful, or have complications and either end up in a hospital or dead. And possibly put into prison. Those babies who were born unwanted would feed the private adoption industry and babies would be sold off to those willing to pay tens of thousands.

You need only look to Ireland for an example of this.

If necessity is the mother of invention, then desperation is the seed of resourcefulness.

Most Americans do not agree with a ban on abortions; restrictions, yes. Ban, no. A law will not stop abortions, merely drive them outside the margins of legal oversight.

 

[c4csp]

No, it isn’t. If it were banned tomorrow, then middle class and wealthy women would book flights to Canada to have the procedure done there. Or have a prescription written discreetly by an agreeable physician for a “hormonal issue” for misoprostol and/or mifeprostone. Or a quiet procedure in a private clinic will be arranged.

Poor women will buy black market drugs, either online or through other sources, or have a procedure done in an illegal clinic.

They will either be successful, or have complications and either end up in a hospital or dead. And possibly put into prison. Those babies who were born unwanted would feed the private adoption industry and babies would be sold off to those willing to pay tens of thousands.

You need only look to Ireland for an example of this.

If necessity is the mother of invention, then desperation is the seed of resourcefulness.

Most Americans do not agree with a ban on abortions; restrictions, yes. Ban, no. A law will not stop abortions, merely drive them outside the margins of legal oversight.

This does not matter. God’s moral law needs to be put in place in any government any chance it has. What one does after, is on their judgement.

 

[QContinuum]

I’m neither a Catholic nor a theist. Therefore, your desired goal of the imposition of “god’s law” has no more credibility or recognition with me than the claims of Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus or anyone else arguing that I should submit to their religious authorities.

So, it does matter to me, very much, what the majority of citizens believe with regard to the laws. If a minority imposes a law that is seen as unjust by the vast majority, eventually, a backlash will occur.

 

[vz71]

Fearing the same ousting, she had an abortion.

Yes it is not so black and white.

Being afraid of the consequences of doing the right thing does not mean the right thing is difficult to discern.

 

[pnewton]

That is similar to my reasoning. We will not stop abortion to any degree operating from a minority in the United States. We will never gain ground and become the majority through a hypocritical, quasi-prolife, anti-abortion stance. Donald Trump is incapable of leading us in a pro-life direction. Take away abortion and he is the poster child for opposing everything else the Church teaches on being pro-life.

 

[WA_Catholic]

That is simply false. The Democrats along with allowing child murder also want infanticide. To add to this they also favor euthanasia. The truth is clear; Democrats are anti-life.

 

[o_mlly]

Here is my confession: I am a real Catholic, and I am not going to vote for Donald J. Trump.

As much as I enjoy Gaffigan’s humor, his wife does not make a strong Catholic case to vote for Biden. I note that that she perhaps reveals in her opening line her motivation is an emotional impulse, not for Biden, but against Trump: I am not going to vote for Donald J. Trump.

 

[pnewton]

That is simply false.

False?

I do not hold mine opinions as some standard of absolute truth, as I lack the deity to do so. I do not even know how most opinions can be true or false.

FYI, I made no comment about Democrats, if you will take time from political posturing to read.

 

[blackforest]

I read that as a Catholic case against Trump, not for Biden. Our system is so broken, unfortunately, that most of us approach elections voting against people and issues rather than for them.

 

[WA_Catholic]

The question is whether it is more pro life or less pro life to be for or against the systemic murder of children, infants, and elderly? What would you say is the more pro-life position.

 

[pnewton]

That is why voting third party, or even taking what the USCCB calls the “extraordinary action” of not voting might be the best course.

The question is whether it is more pro life or less pro life…

Your question, not mine. My own view is longer and broader.

 

[Victoria33]

Fenranyl, open borders, cartels, this too, concerns the right to life or lack thereof from border-doves.

Along with the great problems brought by these, Americans looking for jobs may suffer as well.

 

[WA_Catholic]

Hmm cause it seems to me that the only life that is actually being stripped away systematically is done by one group and protected by another. Do you mind explaining that.

 

[Victoria33]

Donald Trump is incapable of leading us in a pro-life direction.

Sorry, he already has. None of us can even dream of doing as many pro-life things as Trump and I repeat, immigration-doves, most I read about have no authority to speak on the right to life.

Their open-borders sees many die. It is not a pro-life position. Time to rid ourselves of this sanctimony.

Given the fact that the last reports show 862,000 abortions in the US in 2017 and that an estimated 40-50 million abortions occur worldwide I don’t think the bishops would agree with you. What other issue produce 40-50 million murders every year?

Right, the Church teaches us to support the most pro-life not perfect pro-life which we ourselves may not agree with.

These cases made aren’t really even dealing with the Catechism, they are homespun theories not appealing to doctrine.

When America is among 7 countries in the world along with China and North Korea that allow for abortions at 9 months, full-term, something is wrong and the Democrats seem to represent Planned Parenthood in the fullest.

Excusez moi, there is nothing pro-life about open immigration. It leads to trafficking, exploitation of migrants and so on. I think people do not like Trump in some cases because they want to say he’s not caring about refugees but this seems to be a self-centered approach.

By the way, a path to citizenship was offered to immigrants if the wall was built. Guess who voted that down? Who is pro-immigrant? Pro-refugee really?

Add to that, funneling funds to abort children overseas and blocking abortions through the Mexico City policy as Trump has done; and people really pose as loving the foreigner? Really?