Thomas Jefferson Statue Torn Down at Portland High School

[StudentMI]

(Oh yeah, I know, it was for “states’ rights” )

I know you said it facetiously, but I wanted to add some stuff I’ve been reading.

The hypocrisy in the states’ rights argument is just astounding. In South Carolina’s secession document for instance they complain at length about the federal government respecting states rights when it came to escaped slaves, and then go on to whine about their states rights not being respected. It’s just weird how people can argue that the states seceded for any reason other than slavery.

 

[WingedHussar]

It did not help that the North was flat out unreasonable, lauding the terrorist John Brown as some sort of heroic Christ figure. When you are dealing with people who hate your guts and want you dead, do you respond to the valid complaint they hide behind or do you deal with the threat first?

After the war, the North had no plans for what to do with slaves, and several hundred thousand died from neglect, illness, and starvation.

None of the above is an endorsement of slavery. Merely a recognition that our Southern brothers were not pure evil as the American left wants us to believe. It is also a cautionary tale about how evil causes problems that not easily solved, even by those who claim the moral high ground.

 

[StudentMI]

It did not help that the North was flat out unreasonable, lauding the terrorist John Brown as some sort of heroic Christ figure. When you are dealing with people who hate your guts and want you dead, do you respond to the valid complaint they hide behind or do you deal with the threat first?

I’ve always liked Lysander Spooner’s idea of guerrilla warfare and insurrection to free the slaves. He was an anti-statist so he was against the war but he still advocated action to free them.

Still Shelby Foote was correct that most simply fought for the simple reason the northerners were down there.

I like the idea that the slaves should have been given the plantations they worked. They did homestead it in a way.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

never said my family jaywalked.

Great, they never jaywalked, so they deserve a statue.

How about the Greek and Roman statues and monuments? Shall we tear those down? I mean, come on…sex with little boys and all.

Ohhhh…how about the pyramids. They were built BY slaves FOR their slave owners…they gotta come down too, right?

 

[josie_L]

And here’s a little something for Rex Murphy: who are you and why should I care what you think? You can answer on his behalf, I guess.

He’s not claiming to have the moral superiority that justifies the removal or defacing of historical figures like Churchhill because he doesn’t pass THEIR/HIS moral purity tests.

Or yours, apparently, if your jaywalking comment as any truth to it.

 

[gam197]

I’ve always liked Lysander Spooner’s idea of guerrilla warfare and insurrection to free the slaves. He was an anti-statist so he was against the war but he still advocated action to free them.

You do like this unknown man, want a statue of him to be erected in place of Christopher Columbus in MA.

He was Unitarian, a socialist, an anachist according to wikipedia.

 

[StudentMI]

Eh the statute idea was more facetious than anything. But I do in general like him.

 

[Rubee]

Would you remove statues of Margaret Sanger? She was a major proponent of the eugenics movement and highly admired by Nazis!!

Do you think we would be allowed to by her admirers on the left (media, feminists, academia . . .)?

Probably not. But I think people should go ahead and remove it as long as racist statues are being removed.

 

[josie_L]

Thanks for your answer and I agree.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

I didn’t say they deserved a statue.

How about the Greek and Roman Statues and monuments? Shall we tear those down? Sex with little boys and all.

And how about the pyramids? They were built BY slaves just to honor their slave owners. They gotta come down, right? By today’s leftist totalitarian standards, if you don’t want to tear down the pyramids then doesn’t that mean you support the slave owners?

 

[StudentMI]

Have they removed the statue of this famous scientist? He was important in developing gynecology but the ugly truth is that he gained his knowledge working on slaves.

I’m totally serious with this. I don’t remember his name and don’t care to look him up.

 

[gam197]

How about the Greek and Roman Statues and monuments? Shall we tear those down? Sex with little boys and all.

And how about the pyramids? They were built BY slaves just to honor their slave owners. They gotta come down, right? By today’s leftist totalitarian standards, if you don’t want to tear down the pyramids then doesn’t that mean you support the slave owners?

The Great Wall of China should be demolished instead of a tourist attraction, at least spray paint it.

From history daily.org.

It would be great to say that the Great Wall was built by dedicated citizens of China but alas that is not the case. It was built by recruited workers, military soldiers, peasants and slaves through forced labor, criminal convicts and prisoners of war

He ordered General Meng Tian ➚ to use up to 300,000 slaves to build new and strengthen existing walls. About 500 million tons of material make up the wall. For the Qin dynasty and those that followed, the Wall marked the division between the civilized world and the barbarians outside

.

 

[Rubee]

None of the above is an endorsement of slavery. Merely a recognition that our Southern brothers were not pure evil as the American left wants us to believe. It is also a cautionary tale about how evil causes problems that not easily solved, even by those who claim the moral high ground.

Pretty sure most German Nazis were not “pure evil” and were simply trying to be patriotic. Still absolutely not a people that should be publicly honored with monuments. The fact of the matter is, had they won the war, Black people would’ve continued to be literal property, for God knows how long. Give me freedom or give me death. Thank God they were beaten.

 

[WingedHussar]

TIL that Thomas Jefferson is a Nazi.

 

[Rubee]

TIL that Thomas Jefferson is a Nazi.

Ok, I’ll assume you’re being honest, so I’ll explain. Your “they were not pure evil” bit applies just as well to Nazis, which makes it an absurd defence of people who gave their lives so they could keep treating others like donkeys. I hope that’s clearer now.

 

[WingedHussar]

They fought because a foreign army was invading their country. The vast majority did not even own slaves. Going by the trends in the rest of the West, slavery would have died a natural death without the bloodshed.

This thread is about Thomas Jefferson’s statue, but you brought up CSA statues. Rather telling that you subconsciously see some sort of connection between Nazis, the CSA, and one of America’s greatest and most influential men.

 

[WingedHussar]

That was John Brown’s plan. Rather bad timing to propose that solution seeing as the slaughter in Haiti had happened within living memory.

 

[Rubee]

They fought because a foreign army was invading their country. The vast majority did not even own slaves. Going by the trends in the rest of the West, slavery would have died a natural death without the bloodshed.

It did not “naturally die” in the rest of the west. It was fought first by abolitionists in Britain, then by a powerful Britain against others for a hundred years until it did. Thank Jesus black people were not treated like donkeys another hundred years while southern Americans got comfortable with the idea of not owning humans the way they owned their cattle. Thank Jesus the slavers were not the only people who mattered.

 

[WingedHussar]

It ended elsewhere because it was economically unfeasible, not at bayonet point. The same would have happened here. Amazing, a vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and yet you tar them all with the same brush. That is uncharitable, but more importantly, just incorrect.

 

[Rubee]

It ended elsewhere because it was economically unfeasible, not at bayonet point. The same would have happened here. Amazing, a vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and yet you tar them all with the same brush. That is uncharitable, but more importantly, just incorrect.

I speak of Germans when I talk of Nazis. It should be obvious to anyone that not all Germans were official members of the Nazi party, and even less of them directly participated in the genocide. The Southern States owned slaves and fought a very bloody war so they could keep them. There’s nothing uncharitable in speaking of the South. I speak of Americans in Iraq too, knowing most Americans have not destroyed Iraq, yet people don’t get confused or defensive about that.