Thomas Keating has a lot of nerve!

[Vico]

…
I can’t seem to find a holy way to practice still, silent meditation for extended periods of time that isn’t derived from the new age, or isn’t utilizing our Lord as a relaxation technique.
…

There is the time honored Jesus Prayer. It may be used alone or followed with silence.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

2717 Contemplative prayer is silence , the "symbol of the world to come"12 or "silent love."13 Words in this kind of prayer are not speeches; they are like kindling that feeds the fire of love. In this silence, unbearable to the “outer” man, the Father speaks to us his incarnate Word, who suffered, died, and rose; in this silence the Spirit of adoption enables us to share in the prayer of Jesus.

2718 Contemplative prayer is a union with the prayer of Christ insofar as it makes us participate in his mystery. The mystery of Christ is celebrated by the Church in the Eucharist, and the Holy Spirit makes it come alive in contemplative prayer so that our charity will manifest it in our acts.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Centering Prayer uses the method spoken of in the Cloud Chapter 7: If you want to gather all your desire into one simple word that the mind can easily retain, choose a short word rather than a long one. A one syllable word such as “God” or “love” is best.

 

[Inbonum]

Centering Prayer uses the method spoken of in the Cloud Chapter 7:

But Cloud originally isn’t by Keating and exists much longer so… It isn’t some proof.
Bible also have many things that could be used in Centering prayer…
I hoped you will give example by Keating. Because he is founder of CP.

The book often claimed as a precedent for centering prayer is The Cloud of Unknowing , by an unknown fourteenth-century English author. But the claim is in vain, for The Cloud of Unknowing clearly repudiates the emphasis given in centering prayer to techniques: “I am trying to make clear with words what experience teaches more convincingly, that techniques and methods are ultimately useless for awakening contemplative love.” The Cloud must be seen in its historic context. Though its emphasis is on the “negative way,” we must remember that it presupposes its reader is well grounded in the “positive way” to God by means of the word of God, creation, and sacramental means. When this prerequisite is met, a book like this can help prayer to go beyond creatures to the Uncreated God. But to see The Cloud as pointing us to technique (as centering prayer does) is profoundly to misread the text.
By Catholic Answers The Danger of Centering Prayer | Catholic Answers

 

[Shakuhachi]

The article you link is hypercritical and determined take everything regarding Fr Keating in the wrong way. I am not going to read and critique the whole thing. If you don’t like Centering Prayer, don’t do it. Prayer is all about intention and interpretation. If you believe the method of the Cloud is so different, do that or the Jesus Prayer.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Not 20 minutes into reading it, on page 13 Keating misquotes our Lord in Mark 8:34 as “Unless you deny your inmost self and take up the cross, you cannot be my disciple”. I searched through several Bible translations, looking for this version, as I’d never heard it quoted with the word “inmost” before, and lo and behold, there is no such translation! Then in the next sentence he focuses in on this word he added, saying " denial of our inmost self includes detachment from the habitual functioning of our intellect and will, which are our inmost faculties."

I would interpret that to mean detachment of our Ratio or Default Mode, all our many thoughts and imaginations and images that come and go so that we can be fully attentive to God who is present and waiting for our full attention and understanding, our intellectus. I would disagree about will. It is the will that motivates and keeps us on that inner path. I would interpret his usage as desires and passions.

I have not read him in a very long time and don’t have the book.

 

[Inbonum]

Even if I don’t have intention to practice Centering prayer I do not think everything is wrong with Keating. But some of his beliefs are and this thread is partially about it.
It is completely fine to ask explanations for somebody’s belief about xy thing.

Article is critical on Centering prayer not Keating as person. It points problematic parts and compares them with Catholic teaching.

 

[Shakuhachi]

When a person writes, so much can be taken in ways never intended.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Article is critical on Centering prayer not Keating as person. It points problematic parts and compares them with Catholic teaching.

Well. the first critique:
"Centering prayer differs from Christian prayer in that the intent of the technique is to bring the practitioner to the center of his own being . There he is, supposedly, to experience the presence of the God who indwells him. Christian prayer, on the contrary, centers upon God in a relational way, as someone apart from oneself. "

I think this is very unfair. First of all because the center of our being as well as God are both mystery.
We may refer to them abstractly but they are more than we can speak of, Also, Doctors of the Church including St John and St Teresa speak of the possibility of union. Even Jesus speaks of it in the Gospel of John. It is not equality, or identity relational intimacy. So both apart and intimately within.

“The Christian knows a God who is personal, yet who, as Creator, infinitely transcends his creature. God is wholly other than man. It is also crucial to Christian prayer that God engages man’s whole being in response, not just his interior life. In the view of centering prayer, the immanence of God somehow makes the transcendence of God available to human techniques and experience.”

That is not true at all. CP is a method or technique, if you like, of focusing attention. Nothing more. No claim otherwise. It helps us become available and focused. The rest is up to God.

 

[Shakuhachi]

“Centering prayer is essentially a form of self-hypnosis. It makes use of a “mantra,” a word repeated over and over to focus the mind while striving by one’s will to go deep within oneself. The effects are a hypnotic-like state: concentration upon one thing, disengagement from other stimuli, a high degree of openness to suggestion, a psychological and physiological condition that externally resembles sleep but in which consciousness is interiorized and the mind subject to suggestion.”

Oh, good golly. Is the practice really so different from the repetition of the Rosary, the Jesus Prayer, The Cloud, John Cassian or Divine mercy Chaplet?

“In order to see clearly that centering prayer departs from Catholic tradition, let us review the differences between Christian spirituality and that of Eastern religions. These differences flow, above all, from their concepts of God, of man, and of their relationship.”

Now the author conflates CP with Eastern religions right off the bat.

Ok, enough from me.

 

[Inbonum]

Is the practice really so different from the repetition of the Rosary, the Jesus Prayer, The Cloud, John Cassian or Divine mercy Chaplet?

It is different. Those are not mantras even though some people use it as mantra.
Even Bible quote can be mantra. If rosary is used as mantra then it isn’t Christian prayer, it is just technique with some sentence from Catholic devotion.

It helps us become available and focused. The rest is up to God.

If we are just focused and rest is on God what is our purpose in that prayer? What is purpose in general then?
If we speak about contemplation then technique for attention is unnecessarily because

[When Gods calls a person to contemplative prayer] the soul is no longer inclined to meditate by itself, to reason on the great truths of faith so as to arouse itself to acts of love of God. It receives “a supernatural recollection” which it could never acquire by its own efforts and “which does not depend on our own will.” It is no longer the soul recollecting itself, it is God who recollects it and draws it toward the inner sanctuary. This is the beginning of contemptation, properly so called; it is infused since we cannot procure it for ourselves by our activity aided by grace… In contemplation “the soul understands that the divine Master is teaching it without the sound of words.” - - - Under this infused light “the soul is inflamed with love without comprehending flow it loves.”

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I think this is very unfair. First of all because the center of our being as well as God are both mystery.

Union with God is objectively brought about by baptism. It is deepened daily through our obedience to him and our death to self, and through various means of ‘grace available to us in the church. A Christian’s personal experience of this union-the subjective aspect-varies from day to day, even from hour to hour. At times we are more subjectively aware of our objective union with God. Thus, even when he is in the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2), the mystic is not necessarily more united with God objectively than is the construction worker when he faithfully toils for his family’s livelihood.
**
In a recent document, Some Aspects of Christian Meditation, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger uses the example of Jesus’ earthly life to support this point. What sustained Jesus in his eternal union with his Father was doing his Father’s will. “My food is to do the will of my Father” On. 4:34). Of course, Jesus went off to pray in solitude, but this, too, was part of doing his Father’s will “By the will of the Father he is sent to mankind, to sinners, to his very executioners, and he could not be more intimately united to the Father than by obeying his will”
**
Contemplative prayer, notes Cardinal Ratzinger, is only one aspect of a life lived in union with God. “The person who prays can be called, by a special grace of the Spirit, to that specific type of union with God which in Christian terms is called mystical.”

 

[Shakuhachi]

It is different. Those are not mantras even though some people use it as mantra.
Even Bible quote can be mantra. If rosary is used as mantra then it isn’t Christian prayer, it is just technique with some sentence from Catholic devotion.

It sounds like you are redefining mantra.

It is simply a word or sound repeated to aid concentration in meditation. Of course the word “mantra” is Sanskrit so we could be strict and say such a word must be Sanskrit. But it sounds like you are emphasizing that a mantra is used only for non-Christian technique. Ok then, saying CP uses a mantra would not be true.

If we are just focused and rest is on God what is our purpose in that prayer? What is purpose in general then?

We are biological people with brains. There are things we can do to train it. We can train ourselves to listen, be attentive. When our intention in doing it is to be available and more attentive to God, it becomes prayer.

At least, that is the way I see it. We can say like the Psalmist, "My heart is ready, O God , my heart is ready. We have done all we possibly can to be ready. At, least for that moment. And that moment certainly needs to be supported by a lifestyle. I believe that is called acquired contemplation, not infused contemplation.

Maybe the real issue here is the apophatic aspect. Reaching beyond images. And yet we do use a word to get there. I don’t recall if CP encourages a word with meaning or not. A word with meaning, such as “Father”, “Lord”, “Jesus” is actually also an invocation that can eventually be released for inner silent attention.

 

[Dorothy]

I so love to see the documentary “Into Great Silence”. I bought it when it first came out and have watched it many times. Somehow it is easy to get drawn into it and feel like I am on a retreat.

 

[Inbonum]

Yeah but repeating sentence or couple words with same intention and result we get with mantra (one word) is same thing. West took many things from East and adapted them.

We can train ourselves to listen

I understand what is your point but if it is about contemplation then we don’t need any attention technique since God recollects soul…

It receives “a supernatural recollection” which it could never acquire by its own efforts and “which does not depend on our own will.” It is no longer the soul recollecting itself, it is God who recollects it and draws it toward the inner sanctuary. This is the beginning of contemptation, properly so called; it is infused since we cannot procure it for ourselves by our activity aided by grace.

If it’s not contemplation but any other form of prayer then use method that unnaturally induces contemplation is strange to Christian prayer.
We have to work because there is no technique that will get us where we want in some artificial way every time we want it.

It expresses therefore the communion of redeemed creatures with the intimate life of the Persons of the Trinity. This communion, based on Baptism and the Eucharist, source and summit of the life of the Church, implies an attitude of conversion, a flight from “self” to the “You” of God. Thus Christian prayer is at the same time always authentically personal and communitarian. It flees from impersonal techniques or from concentrating on oneself, which can create a kind of rut, imprisoning the person praying in a spiritual privatism which is incapable of a free openness to the transcendental God.

---

1. Some use eastern methods solely as a psycho-physical preparation for a truly Christian contemplation; others go further and, using different techniques, try to generate spiritual experiences similar to those described in the writings of certain Catholic mystics.13Still others do not hesitate to place that absolute without image or concepts, which is proper to Buddhist theory,14 on the same level as the majesty of God revealed in Christ, which towers above finite reality.

---

31.The love of God, the sole object of Christian contemplation, is a reality which cannot be “mastered” by any method or technique. On the contrary, we must always have our sights fixed on Jesus Christ, in whom God’s love went to the cross for us and there assumed even the condition of estrangement from the Father (cf. Mk 13:34).
Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on some aspects of Christian Meditation – Orationis formas

In the 16th century, Teresa of Avila noticed that as some Christians prayed they tried to stop thinking pre-mature, before God had given the grace of contemplation. In Interior Castle she said, “be careful not to check the movement of the mind … and to remain there like a dolt.” A century later, the church was confronted with a still more passive form of prayer in the teachings of Miguel de Molinos. It did not take long for “quietism” to be condemned.
Library : Centering Prayer Meets the Vatican | Catholic Culture

 

[Shakuhachi]

Yeah but repeating sentence or couple words with same intention and result we get with mantra (one word) is same thing. West took many things from East and adapted them.

Maybe, or not. Does it matter?

I understand what is your point but if it is about contemplation then we don’t need any attention technique since God recollects soul…
If it’s not contemplation but any other form of prayer then use method that unnaturally induces contemplation is strange to Christian prayer.
We have to work because there is no technique that will get us where we want in some artificial way every time we want it

As I said before, we make ourselves available. And that takes some work, to really be attentive.

Is there then no place for any spiritual discipline?

I liken meditation to something like learning to play the organ. It takes patience, discipline and practice. Whether it becomes prayer or not depends on the person.

 

[HarryStotle]

Not 20 minutes into reading it, on page 13 Keating misquotes our Lord in Mark 8:34 as “Unless you deny your inmost self and take up the cross, you cannot be my disciple”. I searched through several Bible translations, looking for this version, as I’d never heard it quoted with the word “inmost” before,

You might be interested in this talk by Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft on Identity.

http://peterkreeft.com/audio/30_lotr_identity.htm

It is about 18 minutes long but I think he makes several good points that might be helpful to you.

One that stands out is that he depicts our relationship to the truth in the way I suspect we ought to treat our relationship to our own self.

The truth is not something we are to grasp or attempt to control because we do not form the truth, it forms and informs us. The book of Wisdom is a good reference to understand this.

The reality of our existence is our true self that is the Imago Dei, the Image of God within each of us. Pride and sin have muddied the water, so to speak, and in effect have concocted a false self - a kind of shadow or simulacrum of our true self. We are in a muddled state not knowing who we truly are

Where Keating confuses things is by using the word “inmost” self as the self to be “denied.” That is an unfortunate depiction because it would seem to imply that our innermost or true self stands in a position that is at odds with what would be the good we seek. If our very self, our innermost self at the deepest core of our being, is to be denied then our deepest aspirations would be untrue to who we are at heart. That is what seems at odds with Christian spirituality, as most people would understand it, and likely the source of your turmoil.

In the Kreeft talk our true identity isn’t to be had by grasping at it to save it or to hang on or possess it, but simply assumed with childlike faith as gift from God and forgotten. By forgetting ourselves we find ourselves. The task isn’t to possess ourselves but to search for God by self-forgetfulness, which I would suggest is a better choice of words than denial of our innermost self, which seems too calculated and mercenary.

However, seeking, following and loving God requires great virtue and strengthens our true self though not by meddling with or manipulating our self or denying our self, as if we are at this time in full possession of a clear picture of who we are or are not. We don’t, which is why any enterprise regarding forming our “self” is best left to God. We only need to know, love and serve him. Everything else is best left in his hands.

 

[JoyfulTune]

Fair enough. I suppose my real purpose for this post is looking for alternatives to centering prayer (as well as lamenting a bit) that don’t compromise scripture or the sacraments.

I’m tired of not knowing who to trust in God’s holy church.

We should not rely on effortful methods or trying to find which humans should we trust. The answer to that is Jesus and Him only, and so, to ask Him to send you a Helper to guide you in your daily life.

Having said that, I have practiced centering prayers several times during retreats only. I find it effortful and defeat the purpose of “resting in God”, at least for myself. I recognize that it maybe useful for many people, but I find it not suitable for me, because I do not grow spiritually by doing meditation in this manner.

“The Cloud of Unknowing” was pivotal in my conversion, and I still love it and believe it’s very orthodox.

You are right in this. Our spirituality should be based on worship of a God who reveal Himself to us. Therefore the key difference between zen meditation, and our christian meditation should be: we are not looking for enlightenment from the God we do not know. Rather, we meditate on His Word, and the way of the Person Jesus through this person we know God.

Needless to say, 13 pages in and I already can’t trust the author to provide truthful information. Done with this book!

I had gone through similar experience when I begun to like bible reading, for some reason, I find myself unable to finish reading other books. I used to finish all books I purchsed from the bookshops. But it has been quite a while now since then. The bible began speak louder, then oops I find myself reading a few pages of other books and throw it away. But what’s interesting is, I also understand faster things God wants me to understand, even if I don’t really finish reading those other books, I understand them from the bible point of view, it becomes easier and simpler.

I read the bible, and it begin to speak to me through daily experience. My life happens to be quiet. But God speaks to me not only during quiet moments. He speaks to me in my whole experience. Whenever I write in this forum, then I find God is teaching me too. So many times I read my own writing and I thought “wow, where those words come from?” I know those from Him. So many times after I write, I keep reading my own writing because I was learning from there too. It sounds strange, I know. But that is real. It is no longer I live, but it is Christ live in me.

Jesus in his walk on earth often goes to quiet places to pray. I need those quiet time to pray too, to think about Him, to talk to Him. And all those are my way to meditate on God, and on His words revealed to us in the bible.

It is not my effort. It is by God’s Spirit living in me.

 

[Magnanimity]

It makes use of a “mantra,” a word repeated over and over to focus the mind while striving by one’s will to go deep within oneself. The effects are a hypnotic-like state: concentration upon one thing, disengagement from other stimuli, a high degree of openness to suggestion, a psychological and physiological condition that externally resembles sleep but in which consciousness is interiorized and the mind subject to suggestion.”

Just a note of clarification. I’m not an apologist for CP. However, the above paragraph is flatly false. CP is most definitely a mantra-less technique. As I noted above, there is no thought or item or conception to draw one’s attention during a sit. The sacred word itself is is only utilized as a brief tool during a sit to wipe the mind clean and reorient a person to the state of objectless awareness.

Again, there is no mantra, no focus on breathing, nor anything else. Whoever this author is is simply mistaken. I’m not opposed to the utilization of a mantra during meditation. I don’t care. A person should use what “works” well for her. But cent. prayer is most definitely not a method utilizing a mantra. So the criticism is misguided on all counts. If one wishes to critique a method, it will always be of most utility to apprehend the method first.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Where Keating confuses things is by using the word “inmost” self as the self to be “denied.” That is an unfortunate depiction because it would seem to imply that our innermost or true self stands in a position that is at odds with what would be the good we seek. If our very self, our innermost self at the deepest core of our being, is to be denied then our deepest aspirations would be untrue to who we are at heart. That is what seems at odds with Christian spirituality, as most people would understand it, and likely the source of your turmoil.

I agree. His use of “innermost” as an aspect of our self that must be denied leaves us with the question then of what is left? He goes on to talk about thoughts and reflections as our inner most self. Of course, thoughts and reflections are things we have or do, not “ourselves”. he would have done better just to stick with scripture as written “Self”, which we would usually identify with ego. Ego is not our innermost self.

Christian spirituality, because it is incarnational, starts with everything that we are but seeks to reorder it all. Even the ego, we do not jettison the ego but we do align it and at times let it become transparent. I think that is the method of CP.

The task isn’t to possess ourselves but to search for God by self-forgetfulness, which I would suggest is a better choice of words than denial of our innermost self, which seems too calculated and mercenary.

I think you are right on.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Just a note of clarification. I’m not an apologist for CP. However, the above paragraph is flatly false.

There is a lot in that article that is inaccurate.

I think though we are nitpicking on this Mantra issue. CP does appear to start with a mantra like method (not that there is anything wrong with that).

How would you define “mantra” and differentiate it with a method such as suggested in The Cloud and John Cassian?

 

[Magnanimity]

There is a lot in that article that is inaccurate.

I agree. I read your responses to it above. But this one particular issue was important to me. Rev Cynthia Bourgeault was an early disciple of Fr Keating’s and she has made this point of distinction ad nauseam in her various writings and speaking engagements. There just is no mantra in CP. The method doesn’t include one. And the “sacred word” shouldn’t be confused as one. The method truly attempts to be one of objectless awareness (akin, so I’ve read, to a certain type of Tibetan Buddhist meditation).

Although one begins the 20 minute sit by introducing the sacred word, that act is quickly let go of. In fact, a very useful way of thinking about what CP is all about is the act of gently and repeatedly “letting go” of all “thoughts.” It is in the act of letting go itself where the real work is done, according to many CP leaders and practitioners.

See this video for a good clarification specifically: