Thousands protest immigration proposal

[davy39]

The sarcasm on this thread is getting to me. Why do you think we have immagration laws? The answer is to regulate the amount of people becoming citizens each year. The failure of the government to do this, has put the whole country in jeopardy, by giving anybody a free pass to come on in and do whatever. Remember, if our borders aren’t secure, we have no country.

 

[Libero]

Thousands protest immigration proposal

GOOD!!

If America want’s to be a brilliant western democracy where liberty is rife and people are ‘liberated’ and freed, then attacking foreign countries is not enough, actually helping the immigrants in need is required.

I am slightly concerned by the posts here, I mean referring to these people as “aliens” (I do think that is what Hitler called the Jews) Let us not forget that the majority of Americans were immigrants when the modern country was founded, how many people here can claim to be one of the pure bred WASP’s?..

 

[Geldain]

Dimmers:

Alrighty, ya’ll proved your point. I’ll start thinking the same way you people do.

I don’t recall anyone suggesting you do so.

No human rights for anyone.

No one has suggested such a thing in this thread but you.

Anyone who is not American has no right to freedom, no rights to anything.

No one has suggested such a thing in this thread but you.

It is not my problem if people starve to death in the world.

No one has suggested such a thing in this thread, but you.

It is not my problem if people are oppressed by their government.

While no one in this thread has suggested such a thing, there are people who feel this way. Fortunately, as a whole and evidenced by our military actions in Iraq and diplomatice actions elsewhere, our nation is not behaving in such a fashion.

It is not my problem if Juan, Peter, Olga, from Europe, Africa, Australia, South America, wants to come into this country so he can support his 2 kids who are barefoot and starving.

Seems a rather selfish notion from where i sit. Wouldn’t you prefer to assist such people in entering into the US legally? Or, if that’s not possible, hook them up with Catholic Charities and send them some money each month to help them manage until they can legally come into the country.

If he wants to be an American let him pay his dues.

If he comes into the nation legally, there’s no doubt such a person will pay their dues.

Since being an American is an HONOR and not a privilege, since being an American you are joining this ELITE group, only those who can afford it shall be given membership.

This is a factually incorrect statement, filled with extremely uncharitible mischaracterizations.

If you’re uneducated, poor, and oppressed, you need not apply.

Another factually incorrect statement.

Lets build walls, all over our borders.

If need be, then so be it. I’d prefer a more of a human wall on the borders patrolling, myself.

Lets build a bubble over our airspace.

Now we’re into old fashoion hyperbole, I presume?

Shoot any foreign Jet liner off the sky. We wouldn’t want any possible illegal immigrants to come into our territory.

Don’t think we will

Let’s just blow up the rest of the world so that we don’t risk any illegal immigrants coming into our country, taking away our jobs, cluttering the welfare system and social security system.

I’m all for it.

Some people in Iran might be interested in your notion

 

[mary_bobo]

Libero:

GOOD!!

If America want’s to be a brilliant western democracy where liberty is rife and people are ‘liberated’ and freed, then attacking foreign countries is not enough, actually helping the immigrants in need is required.

I am slightly concerned by the posts here, I mean referring to these people as “aliens” (I do think that is what Hitler called the Jews) Let us not forget that the majority of Americans were immigrants when the modern country was founded, how many people here can claim to be one of the pure bred WASP’s?..

A little sarcastic, don’t you think. My question is WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE RULE OF LAW? We have laws. They have been broken by ILLEGAL aliens (immigrants, law-breakers) whatever term you chose. Yes, the early Americans were immigrants, but they came legally. And our country always welcomes immigrants. But is it too much to expect that they obey the laws (as my grandparents did) and come within the boundry of the law? I think not.

We have 12 million illegals in this country many of whom are not working, are drawing from our welfare roles and enjoying educational privileges that are denied some of our students.

America has been the most generous country on earth in helping others. I resent the thinking that we should take care of everyone who manages to break the law and arrive here expecting to get on the public dole. Yes, some who come do work that Americans are not willing to do. But that is not the majority of the 12 million who are here now.

 

[Geldain]

Libero:

If America want’s to be a brilliant western democracy where liberty is rife and people are ‘liberated’ and freed, then attacking foreign countries is not enough, actually helping the immigrants in need is required.

The logical fallacies here are:A)America helps immigrants in huge numbers every year, B)attacking Iraq and Afghanistan have nothing to do with the issue of immigration.

I am slightly concerned by the posts here, I mean referring to these people as “aliens” (I do think that is what Hitler called the Jews)

It’s a proper term used for decades when referring to people entering the country to live. You can be a legal alien; entering the country legally, filing proper documents, and obeying the laws of the land or you can be an illgeal alien; sneaking into the country, buying forged documents and applying for governmental resources you’re not legally eligible for.

Your Hitler referrence is not an example of flawed logic, it has no place in this discussion on any level, from where I sit.

Let us not forget that the majority of Americans were immigrants when the modern country was founded, how many people here can claim to be one of the pure bred WASP’s?..

The majority of Americans were immigrants. Legal immigrants in most cases.

 

[Geldain]

Thekla:

But we can’t scapegoat the very people that were encouraged to come here.

I don’t think the US government “urged” people to be crammed, 100 at a time into the backs of trucks and smuggled across the border, many dying along the way.

We do need to do something for those who are here illegally now thats reasonable. Those who want to stay here legally should be allowed to begin the process. Those who don’t should be sent to their nation of origin, safely.

From where I sit, anyway.

 

[Geldain]

Geldain:

Your Hitler referrence is not an example of flawed logic, it has no place in this discussion on any level, from where I sit.

Error. This should have said, "Your Hitler referrence is not **ONLY **an example of flawed logic, it has no place in this discussion on any level, from where I sit.

Sorry, had to correct that error of mine

 

[cainem]

is the us government working with the mexican authorities to pressure/help raise the standard of living in mexico? if not then for every one you send back 5 more are probably sneaking across the border, we are lucky in the us and the uk to enjoy prosperity and a good standard of living, if i was on the poverty line and had hungry kids i would happily break the border laws to improve their lot, lets face it most immigrants do the low paid jobs that we would not consider as a career

 

[cmt]

If they want to live here, then they need to do it legally…and if they abuse the law by coming illegally, they need to go back.

They whine about the quality of living in their country, yet do nothing to change it. They are responsible for their own fate, not us. Enough is enough.

How dare they march carrying their countries flag and saying they have a right to break the law.

They have a right to get the heck out of our country and go build up their own society instead of tearing ours down. If they want to immagrate legally, then they should do so. But demanding the right to break our laws is NOT an option.

 

[Philip_P]

We should make it easier to immigrate legally. That would certainly cut down on illegal immigration.

The USCCB supports the proposal put forward by Senators McCain and Edwards, which is more comprehensive and less focused on harsh (and ultimately short-sighted) penalties than the competing proposal introduced by Senators Cornyn and Kyl.

Check out the USCCB position on this (and send an email to your senator):

justiceforimmigrants.org/action.html

 

[CinciMom]

Ok… time to chime in here. I am a daughter of Hungarian immigrants who came here legally. I am not anti immigration at all but LEGAL immigration.

There are millions of people who are waiting YEARS to come into this country legally. Because of the influx of illegals, why should the people who are trying to do the RIGHT thing be punished?

 

[estesbob]

Dimmers:

Wow. So… Push them all down to the South… RIGHT. The brown skin people?

What about Irish, German, Italian, Russian, Greek, Polish, Hasidic Jews?

What about people from the continent of Africa, Dominicans, Cubans, Haitians, Chinese, Korean?

How about just deporting those who are here illegally regardless of race creed or country of national origin country of national origin?

 

[estesbob]

Philip P:

We should make it easier to immigrate legally. That would certainly cut down on illegal immigration.

The USCCB supports the proposal put forward by Senators McCain and Edwards, which is more comprehensive and less focused on harsh (and ultimately short-sighted) penalties than the competing proposal introduced by Senators Cornyn and Kyl.

Check out the USCCB position on this (and send an email to your senator):

justiceforimmigrants.org/action.html

Problem is we’ve done this before. Now we have 11 million more illegal immigrants who’ve come here expecting us to once again to offer amnesty.

 

[Thekla]

mary bobo:

A little sarcastic, don’t you think. My question is WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE RULE OF LAW? We have laws. They have been broken by ILLEGAL aliens (immigrants, law-breakers) whatever term you chose.

Are they the only law-breakers? I mean, think about it. Why does the government make it so easy for documentation to be falsified? Why are there so few regulations or oversight for employers? These people were encouraged to come here and are being encouraged by our government and businesses even now.

I know kids whose parents brought them here illegally when they were babies. They are terrified at the prospect of being sent back to a country they have never set foot in and have no connection with or loyalty to.

You ask “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE RULE OF LAW?” How about “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO SIMPLE HUMANITY?” Illegal immigrants have been encouraged to come here by the business community and our government. Now they are being scapegoated by politicians seeking to create strife. And the worst thing is that Americans fall for it.

Secure our borders but legalize the people here. We wanted them here. We invited them here. Let them stay.

 

[estesbob]

Libero:

GOOD!!

If America want’s to be a brilliant western democracy where liberty is rife and people are ‘liberated’ and freed, then attacking foreign countries is not enough, actually helping the immigrants in need is required.

I am slightly concerned by the posts here, I mean referring to these people as “aliens” (I do think that is what Hitler called the Jews) Let us not forget that the majority of Americans were immigrants when the modern country was founded, how many people here can claim to be one of the pure bred WASP’s?..

The majority of Americans are descended from legal immigrants. And being lectured by a Brit. About American immigration policy is like being lectured by Madonna about chastity.

BTW-when I married my wife she was a legal immigrant , not yet a US citizen. She waited in line took the test and I stood at her side when she proudly took the oath of citizenship. Opening the borders , as you seem to suggest , is a slap in the face of those who came here legally.

 

[estesbob]

Thekla:

Are they the only law-breakers? I mean, think about it. Why does the government make it so easy for documentation to be falsified? Why are there so few regulations or oversight for employers? These people were encouraged to come here and are being encouraged by our government and businesses even now.

I know kids whose parents brought them here illegally when they were babies. They are terrified at the prospect of being sent back to a country they have never set foot in and have no connection with or loyalty to.

You ask “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE RULE OF LAW?” How about “WHATEVER HAPPENED TO SIMPLE HUMANITY?” Illegal immigrants have been encouraged to come here by the business community and our government. Now they are being scapegoated by politicians seeking to create strife. And the worst thing is that Americans fall for it.

Secure our borders but legalize the people here. We wanted them here. We invited them here. Let them stay.

Does anyone else see the irony of Thekla’s post. In CA she constantly posts we are a racist ,sexist warmongering nation. Yet now she tells us that it is “human rights” to allow anyone who wants to to move in. I I would think if of our country was as bad as the LEFT contends it is we would have to build walls to keep people in.

 

[Melvin]

As a Catholic, it is imperative that I follow the Church’s teaching regarding showing compassion, hospitality, and mercy to the “stranger.”

God created all men. He loves all men. He died on the cross to save us ALL from our sins, the power of the evil one, and eternal damnation. This without regard to race, national origin, or state in life.

And, as a sometimes too proud American, it is at times difficult for me to deal with the reality that our Lord Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, did not die to save nations, not even America: He died to save people. (This gives me great pause when I consider that we ourselves have slaughtered 48 million Americans in the womb…may God have mercy on us!) Sometimes, when I think too highly of America, I remind myself that if America were really as important as we believe her to be, there would be more than five percent (the latest figure I have heard) of the world’s Catholics living here…After all, it is the Church that is the presence of the Kingdom of God in the world…which is a wonderful reason to joyfully welcome my Catholic brothers and sisters from south of the border…bienvenidos!

However, all this does not mean that it should be a free for all on the United States. The United States contains three hundred million people…each of whom Christ died for and the government of the United States is obliged to protect.

While we Americans and especially Catholics seek to demonstrate mercy, compassion and justice to the stranger (that’s why we are now in the position of having to squarely face this issue), we must not thereby deny mercy, compassion or justice to Americans. For instance, in our desire to show mercy to the stranger we permit anyone, including illegals, to obtain medical care, many times non-emergency care, at hospital emergency rooms. This has gone a long way to provoking a health care crisis that endangers care to all, both Americans and non-Americans, and has helped result in tremendous cost increases for medical care as many times costs are not reimbursed. Hospital emergency rooms are closing like dominos, insurance costs are prohibitive, and a few years ago, the LA County medical system almost went out of business primarily because of this reason…

We allow anyone, including illegals, to send their children to our schools. This has resulted over the years in massive increases in expenditures as we have, instead of compelling immigrant children to learn English through immersion, implemented a multitude of programs for those speaking other languages: requiring teachers, classroom space, and additional outlays…and let’s not forget the multitude of languages that ballots have to be printed in…how can one intelligently vote when one cannot keep up with the evening news (but that’s another discussion)?

Showing compassion and mercy to the stranger should not have to result in predatory actions against Americans, yet thirty percent (the latest figure I have heard) of those incarcerated in American jails and prisons are illegal immigrants…and the crimes run the gamut…

Finally, showing compassion and mercy to the stranger should not mean that a nation is required to commit national suicide in doing so. There is no reason to allow those who demonstrate no loyalty to our nation, our people, our laws or our principles to live among us, especially if they hold a philosophy which is anatema to the America sense of freedom and justice. In doing so we sow the seeds of rebellion, balkanization and destruction of that same nation and system of laws. This, I understand, has already begun, as there are reported to be sections of Los Angeles (and other cities, I presume) where an English only speaking individual cannot converse with any shop keeper because nobody in the area speaks English!

Continued…

 

[bones_IV]

estesbob:

Does anyone else see the irony of Thekla’s post. In CA she constantly posts we are a racist ,sexist warmongering nation. Yet now she tells us that it is “human rights” to allow anyone who wants to to move in. I I would think if of our country was as bad as the LEFT contends it is we would have to build walls to keep people in.

Yet she doesn’t want to admit to it.

 

[Melvin]

Securing our borders should not present a problem on either side of the debate. A nation has a right to insure that it is safe from invasion and from espionage by potential enemies. Anyone who has read the news over the last five years must be aware that there have been multiple incidents of middle eastern men crossing the southern border into the U.S…backpacks found in the southern desert treks into the U.S. with Korans in them…and must also be aware that not everyone who lives south of the Rio Grande loves America…

We need to show compassion and mercy, yes, I would say even to those who have entered the nation illegally. My proposal is as follows: those who have no criminal history in their own nation (and I would limit this to crimes of violence, sexual perversion or dishonesty according to the AMERICAN understanding of those crimes), no criminal history in the United States (we would, unfortunately, have to civilly penalize the illegal immigrant for illegal entry in order to maintain a sense of JUSTICE), and who have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate a clear and compelling desire to be loyal Americans, forsaking loyalty to any foreign nation (meaning, for instance that they do not wave the Mexican flag while pushing for changes in American laws and do not just want to attain the “American dream” of money and property which require no loyalty) and actively contribute through their work, their social relations, and their participation in everyday American life to the good of our society, can stay…and welcome.

The rest would be repatriated with all of their legally obtained (not through the commission of criminal acts after their already illegal entry into the U.S.) assets.

No solution is going to make everyone happy…but let’s first commit ourselves to the security and safety of our own people…and we will then have the framework and indeed the motivation to demonstrate compassion and mercy to others…

DEUS CARITAS EST!

 

[Fitz]

Libero:

GOOD!!

If America want’s to be a brilliant western democracy where liberty is rife and people are ‘liberated’ and freed, then attacking foreign countries is not enough, actually helping the immigrants in need is required.?..

America **is **a brilliant democracy. That is why immigrants are trying to get here, stay here, and thrive here. I won’t address your false explanation for Iraq. That would derail this thread.

Libero:

I am slightly concerned by the posts here, I mean referring to these people as “aliens” (I do think that is what Hitler called the Jews) Let us not forget that the majority of Americans were immigrants when the modern country was founded, how many people here can claim to be one of the pure bred WASP’s?..

Libero, you need a good course in history. You are not alone in that. Many of the congressmen and senators could use a refresher also. We all know we are immigrant stock. My ancestors were not treated so well by the English and they could not even survive in a country they once loved. However, that is then and now is now, and it is off topic sort of. We are a country of laws. Being Catholic we all know we need to follow the laws of our country- we are bound to do that. It is what we do. If the laws are wrong (as in Roe vs. Wade), then we are commmaded to do all we can do to change them.