Thousands protest immigration proposal

[Libero]

Geldain:

Error. This should have said, "Your Hitler referrence is not **ONLY **an example of flawed logic, it has no place in this discussion on any level, from where I sit.

Sorry, had to correct that error of mine

Not from where I sit, reffering to people as “aliens” removes their very identity as a human, it diminshes their dignity and makes them seem like a lesser being. Further more, calling somebody an alien has such powerful connotations in todays world, that it does not matter if it once was used in the same context a long time ago…

 

[Libero]

bones_IV:

Yet she doesn’t want to admit to it.

This is ganging up one another person because they do not hold the same views as you - it is primitive and should not be allowed

 

[Libero]

estesbob:

The majority of Americans are descended from legal immigrants. And being lectured by a Brit. About American immigration policy is like being lectured by Madonna about chastity.

BTW-when I married my wife she was a legal immigrant , not yet a US citizen. She waited in line took the test and I stood at her side when she proudly took the oath of citizenship. Opening the borders , as you seem to suggest , is a slap in the face of those who came here legally.

I do not care if you married a legal immigrant, it makes no difference, all of my mothers side are legal immigrants…

Rounding up all the illegal immigrants referring to them as ‘aliens’ despite the fact that often they are fleeing for their lives, wishing to live in any form of ‘peace’ is a slap in the face of those who care about the dignity of all humans, the sanctity of all human life and our duty to ensure that the freedom and basic needs of other humans are preserved.

 

[gilliam]

Libero:

I do not care if you married a legal immigrant, it makes no difference, all of my mothers side are legal immigrants…

Rounding up all the illegal immigrants referring to them as ‘aliens’ despite the fact that often they are fleeing for their lives, .

Only an extremely small percentage of the 12million illegal aliens are “fleeing for the lives” the vast majority are crossing our southern boarder for better paying jobs and they send much of the money back to their home country.

Much of Mexico’s wealth comes from US funds flowing south.

 

[Libero]

gilliam:

Only an extremely small percentage of the 12million illegal aliens are “fleeing for the lives” the vast majority are crossing our southern boarder for better paying jobs and they send much of the money back to their home country.

Much of Mexico’s wealth comes from US funds flowing south.

I do not know as much about the immigration factors over there (i.e. push/ pull) you see here the majority of our immigrants are fleeing poverty and some even fundamentalist Islamic rule, I have no problem what so ever in these people wanting to benefit from the same education system that I have - it is the only way we shall achieve harmony…

 

[LRThunder]

Libero:

I do not know as much about the immigration factors over there (i.e. push/ pull) you see here the majority of our immigrants are fleeing poverty and some even fundamentalist Islamic rule, I have no problem what so ever in these people wanting to benefit from the same education system that I have - it is the only way we shall achieve harmony…

Escaping poverty isn’t the same as fleeing for their lives as you suggested a couple of posts ago. Most of the illegal immigrants are not coming from Islamic fundamentalist nations, but from Latin American countries. The only current instance I can think of people “fleeing for their lives” would be Cuba.

If they want to move here legally and become U.S. citizens, I’ll be happy to welcome them. But if they insist on coming here illegally, with no intentions of becoming a citizen, then they need to return to their native country.

 

[Libero]

cainem:

is the us government working with the mexican authorities to pressure/help raise the standard of living in mexico? if not then for every one you send back 5 more are probably sneaking across the border, we are lucky in the us and the uk to enjoy prosperity and a good standard of living, if i was on the poverty line and had hungry kids i would happily break the border laws to improve their lot, lets face it most immigrants do the low paid jobs that we would not consider as a career

Exactly!! - People criticise them whilst sitting at their computers in their heated homes and having a fridge full of food - would you be so quick to denounce these immigrants if you were one?

 

[Philip_P]

estesbob:

Originally Posted by Philip P

We should make it easier to immigrate legally. That would certainly cut down on illegal immigration.

The USCCB supports the proposal put forward by Senators McCain and Edwards, which is more comprehensive and less focused on harsh (and ultimately short-sighted) penalties than the competing proposal introduced by Senators Cornyn and Kyl.

Check out the USCCB position on this (and send an email to your senator):

justiceforimmigrants.org/action.html

Problem is we’ve done this before. Now we have 11 million more illegal immigrants who’ve come here expecting us to once again to offer amnesty.

Obviously we didn’t increase our quotas high enough, then, if there is still a backlog of 11 million potential Americans we are unable to accept.

The Cornyn/Kyl legislation would make the problem worse. The McCain/Kennedy legislation takes several positive steps towards reducing illegal immigration and providing for human rights for migrant workers. Take the time to click the link and inform yourself.

 

[Libero]

LRThunder:

Escaping poverty isn’t the same as fleeing for their lives as you suggested a couple of posts ago. Most of the illegal immigrants are not coming from Islamic fundamentalist nations, but from Latin American countries. The only current instance I can think of people “fleeing for their lives” would be Cuba.

If they want to move here legally and become U.S. citizens, I’ll be happy to welcome them. But if they insist on coming here illegally, with no intentions of becoming a citizen, then they need to return to their native country.

Legal immigration systems are very ineffective, and if you do not have food for your malnourished children, you simply cannot wait for months whilst the government consider your application, in many cases to turn it down.

Escaping poverty could be considered fleeing for lives:

poverty = no food to stay alive
moving to live (get food) = ‘fleeing’ for life

 

[gilliam]

Libero:

Legal immigration systems are very ineffective, and if you do not have food for your malnourished children, you simply cannot wait for months whilst the government consider your application, in many cases to turn it down.

Escaping poverty could be considered fleeing for lives:

poverty = no food to stay alive
moving to live (get food) = ‘fleeing’ for life

Then they need to go back home to Mexico.

 

[Philip_P]

gilliam:

Then they need to go back home to Mexico.

So they can die away from American eyes? What happened to the corporal works of mercy?

 

[LRThunder]

Libero:

Legal immigration systems are very ineffective, and if you do not have food for your malnourished children, you simply cannot wait for months whilst the government consider your application, in many cases to turn it down.

Escaping poverty could be considered fleeing for lives:

poverty = no food to stay alive
moving to live (get food) = ‘fleeing’ for life

Then work to change the legal immigration laws. That’s the beauty of our country. We can have Congress and the President change the laws if they need to be. However, until the laws are changed, we should continue to enforce the current laws.

 

[Libero]

LRThunder:

Then work to change the legal immigration laws. That’s the beauty of our country. We can have Congress and the President change the laws if they need to be. However, until the laws are changed, we should continue to enforce the current laws.

No, until the system is made effective you have to allow acceptances where it is bad, you cannot punish other people because the system you have made is rubbish…

 

[LRThunder]

Libero:

No, until the system is made effective you have to allow acceptances where it is bad, you cannot punish other people because the system you have made is rubbish…

No. Unless we’re talking about another Holocaust here or slavery, it is mandated that we follow the law. As I said, if it’s necessary to change the law, then work to change it. That’s how it works here in the U.S., or at least it’s supposed to. I have no objections to changing the law, but I do have a problem with defying it or providing arbitrary exceptions to following it.

 

[Libero]

LRThunder:

No. Unless we’re talking about another Holocaust here or slavery, it is mandated that we follow the law. As I said, if it’s necessary to change the law, then work to change it. That’s how it works here in the U.S., or at least it’s supposed to. I have no objections to changing the law, but I do have a problem with defying it or providing arbitrary exceptions to following it.

Would you have a problem with them being leniant with the law if it were you without food, a job and a poor future for your children? To appreciate my points you have to put yourself in the same situations as the immigrants, I still believe that defending a ineffective law wouldn’t seem so logical and just then…

 

[gilliam]

Libero:

I do not know as much about the immigration factors over there (i.e. push/ pull) you see here the majority of our immigrants are fleeing poverty and some even fundamentalist Islamic rule, I have no problem what so ever in these people wanting to benefit from the same education system that I have - it is the only way we shall achieve harmony…

I live in Arizona, so we deal with this every day. Most of the illegal aliens are Mexican. The vast majority still have families down south in Mexico. They are not “fleeing poverty”. They are here because they can make more money than they can at home and they send the money south to their families. Most have no intention of staying here. They are patriotic Mexicans (that is why you see so many Mexican flags). There is even a movement in Calif. to make Southern California a part of Mexico so they would not have to bother with the Boarder Patrol.

This is not the first generation of Mexicans that have done this migration. In fact, it has turned into part of the culture of their caste. You may not be aware of this, but there is a caste system in Mexico and the lower castes have a problem getting the good jobs in Mexico.

IMHO, this is not a political issue, nor a human rights issue. This is an economic issue.

 

[LRThunder]

Libero:

Would you have a problem with them being leniant with the law if it were you without food, a job and a poor future for your children? To appreciate my points you have to put yourself in the same situations as the immigrants, I still believe that defending a ineffective law wouldn’t seem so logical and just then…

I understand, and as I said a couple of times already, I wouldn’t object to changing the law to make legal immigration easier.

BUT…until that happens, the current law is still the law. As such, it must be enforced or followed.

 

[Libero]

gilliam:

I live in Arizona, so we deal with this every day. Most of the illegal aliens are Mexican. The vast majority still have families down south in Mexico. They are not “fleeing poverty”. They are here because they can make more money than they can at home and they send the money south to their families. Most have no intention of staying here. They are patriotic Mexicans (that is why you see so many Mexican flags). There is even a movement in Calif. to make Southern California a part of Mexico so they would not have to bother with the Boarder Patrol.

This is not the first generation of Mexicans that have done this migration. In fact, it has turned into part of the culture of their caste. You may not be aware of this, but there is a caste system in Mexico and the lower castes have a problem getting the good jobs in Mexico.

IMHO, this is not a political issue, nor a human rights issue. This is an economic issue.

Thankyou for giving me some what more of an insight.

I am sure that there are some immigrants that are in America because they are fleeing poverty, and as for the others, would you wish for them to have a lower standard of life simply because they were born in the wrong place… Would you wish them not to prosper under the same system which the founders of America did, - should they not be allowed to engage in the dream, solely because they are not American?

 

[Libero]

LRThunder:

I understand, and as I said a couple of times already, I wouldn’t object to changing the law to make legal immigration easier.

BUT…until that happens, the current law is still the law. As such, it must be enforced or followed.

I do get where you are coming from, but what about those who are unfortunate to have to leave under the law before the system is modified… tough cookies? That is not very fair…

 

[Thekla]

estesbob:

Does anyone else see the irony of Thekla’s post. In CA she constantly posts we are a racist ,sexist warmongering nation. Yet now she tells us that it is “human rights” to allow anyone who wants to to move in. I I would think if of our country was as bad as the LEFT contends it is we would have to build walls to keep people in.

estesbob,
I’m beginning to think that you are obsessed with me. Do you have any evidence to back up your smear against me or are you simply making an unfounded personal attack?
Thekla