Thousands protest immigration proposal

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Libero:
I do get where you are coming from, but what about those who are unfortunate to have to leave under the law before the system is modified… tough cookies? That is not very fair…
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Let me see:
  1. You break the law
  2. You know you are breaking the law
  3. You complain because you just know someday the law will be changed, so you continue to break the law
Sorry, no one in the United States is above the law, not even illegal aliens.
 
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Libero:
Legal immigration systems are very ineffective,
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Evidence please?
and if you do not have food for your malnourished children, you simply cannot wait for months whilst the government consider your application, in many cases to turn it down.
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If you are that bad off, how do you have the strength to make it across the border…or pay, as many illegals do to be brought across the border?
Escaping poverty could be considered fleeing for lives:
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poverty = no food to stay alive
moving to live (get food) = ‘fleeing’ for life
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Escaping poverty does not = permission to break the law and come into the US illegally.
 
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Libero:
Thankyou for giving me some what more of an insight.

I am sure that there are some immigrants that are in America because they are fleeing poverty, and as for the others, would you wish for them to have a lower standard of life simply because they were born in the wrong place… Would you wish them not to prosper under the same system which the founders of America did, - should they not be allowed to engage in the dream, solely because they are not American?
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Do you know that what you are advocating is that nations have no boarders at all? That people just freely come and go as they please? If that were the case, the US would turn into a third world nation in, I would say, 2 years. Because of the number of people who want to come here and who would end up in refugee camps, or the like and on the government dole. We simply can’t afford another 100 million people coming here without jobs.

Not to mention the thousands of terrorists who would come over.

Just think what Europe would look like with half of Italy in Switzerland and much of North Africa in the UK. 😉

You need to think rationally about this.
 
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Libero:
I do not care if you married a legal immigrant, it makes no difference, all of my mothers side are legal immigrants…

Rounding up all the illegal immigrants referring to them as ‘aliens’ despite the fact that often they are fleeing for their lives, wishing to live in any form of ‘peace’ is a slap in the face of those who care about the dignity of all humans, the sanctity of all human life and our duty to ensure that the freedom and basic needs of other humans are preserved.
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They are aliens. In fact before she became a citizen my wife’s official status was as a “resident alien.” The idea the term 'alien" is offensive is complete and utter nonsense.

Quite frankly I could not not care less what your views on immigration in the United States are. It’s easy to pontificate when an ocean separates you from the problems you are lecturing the rest of us about. Given your disdain for the United States I’m surprised you’re not standing at the border begging these people to stay home.
 
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Libero:
Not from where I sit, reffering to people as “aliens” removes their very identity as a human, it diminshes their dignity and makes them seem like a lesser being.
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It’s a legal term. If you don’t like it, take it up with Congress.
Further more, calling somebody an alien has such powerful connotations in todays world, that it does not matter if it once was used in the same context a long time ago…
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Actually, the definition of the term hasn’t changed. If there’s new “connotations” then you might want to not apply them in your thinking when you read/speak the word.
 
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estesbob:
The majority of Americans are descended from legal immigrants. And being lectured by a Brit. About American immigration policy is like being lectured by Madonna about chastity.

BTW-when I married my wife she was a legal immigrant , not yet a US citizen. She waited in line took the test and I stood at her side when she proudly took the oath of citizenship. Opening the borders , as you seem to suggest , is a slap in the face of those who came here legally.
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If by “legal” immigration you mean essentially unlimited immigration, I guess you are in the ballpark. Until the early 1920’s, this nation was an open door except for Asians, lunatics, anarchists, and carriers of infectious disease. We’ll put aside the decendents of enslaved Africans.

But to suggest that most of us are decended from people who waited their time and filled out their paperwork, which is what “legally” suggests, is somewhat misleading. We are, most of us, decended from people who showed up. Period.

Any sort of quota system for this country didn’t even begin until the late 20’s and there were no penalties on employers for hiring illegal immigrants until the mid 80’s.
 
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gilliam:
Do you know that what you are advocating is that nations have no boarders at all? That people just freely come and go as they please? If that were the case, the US would turn into a third world nation in, I would say, 2 years. Because of the number of people who want to come here and who would end up in refugee camps, or the like and on the government dole. We simply can’t afford another 100 million people coming here without jobs.
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He is not advocating that nations have no borders -he is advocating the United States have no borders. Easy for him to say , stuck away in the confines of Britain. He hasn’t a clue what’s going on over here.

Like Thekla he has done an amazing flip-flop -going from from the United States is evil to the United States is evil for not letting people come in and participate in that evil.
 
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Thekla:
If by “legal” immigration you mean essentially unlimited immigration, I guess you are in the ballpark. Until the early 1920’s, this nation was an open door except for Asians, lunatics, anarchists, and carriers of infectious disease. We’ll put aside the decendents of enslaved Africans.

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By legal immigration I mean legal immigration. The majority of Americans are descended from legal immigrants. If that bothers you so be it.
 
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Thekla:
estesbob,
I’m beginning to think that you are obsessed with me.:eek: Do you have any evidence to back up your smear against me or are you simply making an unfounded personal attack?
Thekla
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Reading a random sampling of your 1630 posts made to CA would prove what I say is true.
 
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estesbob:
They are aliens. In fact before she became a citizen my wife’s official status was as a “resident alien.” The idea the term 'alien" is offensive is complete and utter nonsense.

Quite frankly I could not not care less what your views on immigration in the United States are. It’s easy to pontificate when an ocean separates you from the problems you are lecturing the rest of us about. Given your disdain for the United States I’m surprised you’re not standing at the border begging these people to stay home.
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How very rude
 
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Thekla:
estesbob,
I’m beginning to think that you are obsessed with me.:eek: Do you have any evidence to back up your smear against me or are you simply making an unfounded personal attack?
Thekla
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Oh it would appear that these attacks are seemingly “founded” - I think the reason is because you disagree with the other persons view? - Something silly like that…
 
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estesbob:
He is not advocating that nations have no borders -he is advocating the United States have no borders. Easy for him to say , stuck away in the confines of Britain. He hasn’t a clue what’s going on over here.

Like Thekla he has done an amazing flip-flop -going from from the United States is evil to the United States is evil for not letting people come in and participate in that evil.
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I suggest that if you simply cannot say anything nice, just don’t talk, these comments are offensive, and quite frankly if you are trying to make America look civilised, you are going the wrong way about it, lucky for you there are some nice Americans on these forums…
 
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Libero:
I am not in an area represented by a Congressman.
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Then you are in effect, attempting to apply meaning to the term ‘alien’ which doesn’t exist in the US.
 
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Geldain:
Then you are in effect, attempting to apply meaning to the term ‘alien’ which doesn’t exist in the US.
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Don’t quite know what you are getting at here - English was not created in America, in fact it has it’s roots in Latin and German, among an assortment of others…
 
The borders were never “free” in the sense that you did not have to register and you were never free to work illegally. And, yes, lunatics, criminals and those with communicable diseases were excluded, with good reason.

These are all historic precedents, but somehow were supposed to throw all this out the window. Funny, The Mexican government enforces its immigration laws though, pretty forcefully.
 
WARNING

Personal attacks are not tolerated in CAF. If you need to address someone on a personal issue, please use a PM.
 
By “legal”, we mean that the people who “essentially showed up” still had to go through a process at places like Ellis Island. The fact that it was an open door, doesn’t change the fact that most of our ancestors came here legally.

Why should our doors be more open than any other developed country on the planet? Please check the immigration laws of the UK, Canada, Netherlands, etc.
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Thekla:
If by “legal” immigration you mean essentially unlimited immigration, I guess you are in the ballpark. Until the early 1920’s, this nation was an open door except for Asians, lunatics, anarchists, and carriers of infectious disease. We’ll put aside the decendents of enslaved Africans.

But to suggest that most of us are decended from people who waited their time and filled out their paperwork, which is what “legally” suggests, is somewhat misleading. We are, most of us, decended from people who showed up. Period.

Any sort of quota system for this country didn’t even begin until the late 20’s and there were no penalties on employers for hiring illegal immigrants until the mid 80’s.
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Brilliant! We will start sending some needy immigrants via ship to the UK. I’m sure the Home Office would agree with you 100%. 1-2 Million would be a good start.
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Libero:
GOOD!!

If America want’s to be a brilliant western democracy where liberty is rife and people are ‘liberated’ and freed, then attacking foreign countries is not enough, actually helping the immigrants in need is required.

I am slightly concerned by the posts here, I mean referring to these people as “aliens” (I do think that is what Hitler called the Jews) Let us not forget that the majority of Americans were immigrants when the modern country was founded, how many people here can claim to be one of the pure bred WASP’s?..
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