Thousands protest immigration proposal

[Libero]

Fitz:

Libero, the Mexican people are not being persecuted or prevented from worshiping in their preferred manor in Mexico. Nor are they starving as in Africa. They are able to earn more money in the US and then they bring it back to Mexico and support their families in a better manor. Many are not even interested in permanent relocation. It is about money in many cases.

In the US, we actually love the Mexicans that work among us. They are very nice people and in most cases law abiding. However, it is true that many are milking our government for services that cost us a bundle. I don’t personally ever ask Mexicans if they are here legally. I am not a snob. If I hire from a legitimate business, then I leave that up to them. I really dont’ think you have a very accurate picture of what is happening here. In my state of Illinois, Illegal immigrants can go to the University paying instate tuition and that is a big deal. I am not in favor of that. In essence every citizen that is legal is paying the way for illegals, or aliens- the word you hate.

You are young and you do have good intenetions. I have a son your age and he is also passionate about certain things in the world. Come back when you have worked 35 years and built up equity in a house and then discuss this issue again.

Oh, I don’t think I shall change, once a ‘leftie’ always a ‘leftie’. Besides that - I am already thinking about the struggle for university fees and I am in a relitavely well off area - it costs like £40 000 to get a Masters!!! Thankfully my grandad said he has saved up…

And as for immigrants, here we cannot afford to make the distinction between immigrants and others for milking the government, you see there are loads of people on the dole when they should be working, and with the NHS everyone takes advantage of the system.

I will admit that I shall have a warped vision of what it is like, and the reasons for immigration, but that is due to the fact that I live in a country where people wish to live for real reasons, not just money.

 

[Fitz]

Libero:

These are people, stop making it sound like you can just ship them anywhere - they are not animals!

Russia is huge though, it could hold them - but you see immigrants wouldn’t want to go to Russia due to the fact it is somewhat corrupt.

No one has suggested that these illegal immigrants are less than human. We are allowing them to march in our streets in protest. Not a one will be in jail tonight. Your wild accusations are silly.

No one wants to go to Russia. The Mexicans are coming here because we are neighbors and they can take their untaxed money (in many instances) home to live a better life. They are making their money stretch. Get it? They would never wait in line to sneak into a depressed country like Russia.

You do realize you are hearing about this now because it is a campaign issue, right?

 

[Libero]

rlg94086:

I apologize for making it sound like animals.

Are you saying that if we made free transcontinental voyages available from Mexico or Central America to Europe, that they would choose not to go?

How terrible of a place is Europe to live in?

I would welcome them, but I don’t know where they could go, I am not exaggerating when I say we have no space in the UK…

Everyone is doing their part - even places like Ireland, my grandad’s town has alot of workers from countries like Taiwan.

You will have seen the problems that France has in dealing with immigrants - it would be impractical to send more immigrants as there are already so many.

 

[Libero]

Geldain:

From where I sit, you want us to open up our borders. We aren’t going to do this, nor should we.

I am fighting a loosing battle… perhaps it is time to make a strategical withdrawl?

 

[Fitz]

Libero:

I will admit that I shall have a warped vision of what it is like, and the reasons for immigration, but that is due to the fact that I live in a country where people wish to live for real reasons, not just money.

So in America we worship money? My converstion with you is done. I will let the moderators handle this.

 

[Libero]

Fitz:

No one has suggested that these illegal immigrants are less than human. We are allowing them to march in our streets in protest. Not a one will be in jail tonight. Your wild accusations are silly.

No one wants to go to Russia. The Mexicans are coming here because we are neighbors and they can take their untaxed money (in many instances) home to live a better life. They are making their money stretch. Get it? They would never wait in line to sneak into a depressed country like Russia.

You do realize you are hearing about this now because it is a campaign issue, right?

But you see I don’t have a problem with people working in another country in order to get more money, I am being passionate on this issue because I believe there are some who have real reasons for breaking the law in immigrating.

Also, how are the Mexican illegal immigrants getting work if they have not got a citizenship or a VISA?

 

[Libero]

Fitz:

So in America we worship money? My converstion with you is done. I will let the moderators handle this.

I am talking about the motives of immigrants moving into a country:

Immigrants move from Mexico to US for money (I am told)

Immigrants move from Europe & Asia to UK for better reasons like saftey, education etc.

 

[LRThunder]

Libero:

I do get where you are coming from, but what about those who are unfortunate to have to leave under the law before the system is modified… tough cookies? That is not very fair…

It might not be fair from the lawbreaker’s point of view, but allowing illegal immigrants to break the law isn’t fair from the law abiding citizens’ point of view either.

 

[rlg94086]

Don’t limit it to Mexicans, though. While that is the largest group, many Central Americans, Filipinos, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc. have come here illegally. It is a major problem. They seem to have no issue deporting illegal aliens in Europe, but some Europeans don’t think it’s fair for us to do the same.

But then we are a bunch of racists here remember

In Europe there is no racism…unless you’re from Jamaica, India, Turkey, or if you are a black footballer.

Fitz:

No one has suggested that these illegal immigrants are less than human. We are allowing them to march in our streets in protest. Not a one will be in jail tonight. Your wild accusations are silly.

No one wants to go to Russia. The Mexicans are coming here because we are neighbors and they can take their untaxed money (in many instances) home to live a better life. They are making their money stretch. Get it? They would never wait in line to sneak into a depressed country like Russia.

You do realize you are hearing about this now because it is a campaign issue, right?

 

[rlg94086]

Libero:

I am talking about the motives of immigrants moving into a country:

Immigrants move from Mexico to US for money (I am told)

Immigrants move from Europe & Asia to UK for better reasons like saftey, education etc.

You have the better class of immigrants? What, what? We don’t have any safety or education here in the US I hope someday we can be like the UK

 

[estesbob]

Fitz:

You are young and you do have good intenetions. I have a son your age and he is also passionate about certain things in the world. Come back when you have worked 35 years and built up equity in a house and then discuss this issue again.

As the saying goes: “those who are not liberal when there are young have no heart , those who remain liberal as they mature have no mind”

In my younger days I made Libeo look like a conservative. Even campaigned and voted for George McGovern. Ones prospective tends of change when they get a job and get married and start raising a family. It’s easy to support illegal immigration when it doesn’t affect you, a little tougher when you’re competing with the illegal alien for a job.

 

[Libero]

rlg94086:

Don’t limit it to Mexicans, though. While that is the largest group, many Central Americans, Filipinos, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc. have come here illegally. It is a major problem. They seem to have no issue deporting illegal aliens in Europe, but some Europeans don’t think it’s fair for us to do the same.

But then we are a bunch of racists here remember

In Europe there is no racism…unless you’re from Jamaica, India, Turkey, or if you are a black footballer.

I never claimed that we were not racist - I live in North England, I am surrounded by the BNP and the NF, I am in a borough whose police force is Greater Manchester - I have seen racism, it is rife among the working class who have been brainwashed, and the upper middle class who remain ignorant. Uneducated youths and stubborn old people surround me with stupid comments like:

“I’m not being racist but all I am saying is Britian for the British” - can you not see me seething at this?

You want my stance: Clarke is making a potentionally good immigration system worse for the UK (he has made it less fair with his points system) I think all countries should work to provide care for those who really need it - The US has the oppertunity now to start a revolution, but it isn’t, this is a little disapointing.

 

[Libero]

You have the better class of immigrants? What, what? We don’t have any safety or education here in the US I hope someday we can be like the UK

I am literally repeating what I have been told here, I was adamment that immigrants to the US sought saftey and shelter and education, but I have been told that they only want to make money - could a proper stance be made please?

 

[Libero]

estesbob:

As the saying goes: “those who are not liberal when there are young have no heart , those who remain liberal as they mature have no mind”

In my younger days I made Libeo look like a conservative. Even campaigned and voted for George McGovern. Ones prospective tends of change when they get a job and get married and start raising a family. It’s easy to support illegal immigration when it doesn’t affect you, a little tougher when you’re competing with the illegal alien for a job.

Depends on your field - how many illegal immigrants are accountants?

I know that not many illegal immigrants shall be pursuing the field of work which I wish to enter…

Let me correct the saying -

“those who are not liberal when they are young have no ming, those who are not liberal when they mature have no heart”

That can be the British correction, from an era of Guardian readers

 

[estesbob]

Libero:

I am talking about the motives of immigrants moving into a country:

Immigrants move from Mexico to US for money (I am told)

Immigrants move from Europe & Asia to UK for better reasons like saftey, education etc.

I thought they moved to the UK to blow up trains?

 

[Fitz]

estesbob:

As the saying goes: “those who are not liberal when there are young have no heart , those who remain liberal as they mature have no mind”

Wasn’t that a famous British leader that said that? I believe it was.

 

[gilliam]

Instapundit writes:

I’VE GENERALLY FAVORED OPEN IMMIGRATION, but I find myself feeling less and less that way in the face of mass rallies by illegal immigrants like this one.
Illegal immigrants as individuals just trying to make a better life are sympathetic. Illegal immigrants as a mass movement making demands on the polity are considerably less so.

I’m not the only one to get this impression, as Mickey Kaus’s report on the rallies in Los Angeles indicates. I think that these marches just made passage of strict immigration laws much more likely.

 

[Libero]

estesbob:

I thought they moved to the UK to blow up trains?

No no no, they are the radical Muslims (in fact the attackers during the 7th July bombings were born in Britain)

We employed an immigrant worker as a cleaner for a while - she was really nice. She came from Slovakia and was incerdibly intelligent (spoke four languages) but needed money to embark on a university course - in the end she returned to Slovakia to work for a telecom company as a linguist.

She was a legal immigrant, and she was really hard working. We cannot always be cynical about the intentions of others.

 

[Philip_P]

rlg94086:

I believe we should be smart about our immigration, like other countries. People with skills and who are financially able to make it should be given preference.

As far as unskilled labor, I like the idea of the Guest Worker program. While I know some don’t agree with me, I think it should have a component included for legal immigration after a certain period of time.

I think that is a sensible approach (and incidentally also the approach of the McCain/Kennedy legislation I cited up thread).

What I am opposed to are those proposals like the Cornyn/Kyl bill (itself an improvement over the House bill), that put in place harsh penalties and offer no route to legal status.

Particularly galling about the House bill is that it seeks to make those who offer any aid to undocumented workers criminally liable. The Gospels don’t ask what language you speak or what your legal status is, yet for giving food to the hungry and comfort to the weary you could be charged with a felony

 

[rlg94086]

It’s all of the above. Of the friends and co-workers I have that are in the process of trying to go from HB1 Visa to Legal Resident Alien (just wanted to clarify for those that think only illegal residents are called aliens) or from the latter to US Citizen; the reasons are all over the map. The countries they are from are Japan, Philippines, Mexico, Romania, Czech Republic, Viet Nam and Malaysia (that’s at my company of only 50 employees).

My Mexican co-worker came here for education and money. My Czech co-worker came here for freedom, safety (Czech Republic isn’t much beter than Russia) and money. My Romanian co-workers came here for money and freedom. My Filipino co-workers come for money…to send back home, but they also emphasize that they want their kids to be educated here.

Of course, all of these examples are people who came legally.

One of my Mexican co-workers has the funniest of situations. He has his HB1 Visa and is working on a Master’s Degree. He just married a Japanese woman who is a Legal Resident Alien. Apparently, in our country’s eyes (certainly not in Japan) he can now try to apply as if he was coming from Japan…apparently the Lottery system is easier than coming from Mexico.

Libero:

I am literally repeating what I have been told here, I was adamment that immigrants to the US sought saftey and shelter and education, but I have been told that they only want to make money - could a proper stance be made please?