Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

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JackQ said:
I don’t know what conditions the employees in those states work under, but (1) that some are mistreated doesn’t justify the mistreatment of others, and (2) the Popes have uniformly supported collective bargaining since Rerum Novarum, with no exception for public employees or Chinamen.

Yes many people pay for their own benefits. Many work without benefits at all. Are we aiming for the lowest common denominator here? I used to be a public employee. Only the employee’s coverage was paid for, and you had to pay for your dependent’s coverage yourself. The problem was, the ladies sitting in front of the typewriters, later computer screens, were paid a body effluence I dare not name on these forums. As a result, they couldn’t cover their dependents.

I sat on the County’s Health Insurance Review Committee. One day, the County’s executives raised a hue and cry about these rascal typists signing up for the health insurance just to take their kids to the doctor, then dropping the coverage. They were going to put a stop to it, by George! I thought I was in a room full of demons.

Health care expenses are the biggest reason for bankruptcies in this country. We need more health coverage, not less. Unfortunately, the political climate in our country today is such that many are being led blindly to savage their fellow citizens, indeed, to work against their own best interests in favor of the wealthy. I was hoping that the Catholics, at least, would rise above it, and place people over systems, work over capital. Alas, what has happened, I fear, is that the Party that claims the pro-life position has by that means dragged many Christians into political venality.
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So you think it is wrong to ask someone to pay for 12% of their healh care costs? Perhaps the Union could lower their dues to help offset the increase?
 
So you think it is wrong to ask someone to pay for 12% of their healh care costs? Perhaps the Union could lower their dues to help offset the increase?
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Bob,

Absolutely not…but collective bargaining is non-negotiable to any union. Remember, the state officials agreed to these contracts.

And remember,the unions have agreed to the wage and benefits cuts.

I didn’t see this one coming…regarding the potential violence.

John
 
estesbob said:
So you think it is wrong to ask someone to pay for 12% of their healh care costs? Perhaps the Union could lower their dues to help offset the increase?
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It depends on the circumstances what an appropriate employee contribution would be. There’s no percentage that comes down from Mount Sinai, nor does it come down from Mount Sinai that the employees ought to pay a percentage. What is the cost of living in the area? How much are the employees being compensated in other ways? What does the health insurance cover? What is the co-pay and deductible?

In the example I gave in my previous post, it was reasonable for me to pay for dependent coverage because I was otherwise compensated adequately. There were others, however, for whom the availability of dependent coverage was a farce because of their wages.

This is why we have negotiation and bargaining. Both sides come to the table and hammer these things out. But in Wisconsin the Legislature is trying to all but eliminate the negotiation and bargaining process. They want to dictate benefits, while putting a cap on wage increases, the baseline of which was established under a different set of rules. It’s wrong.
 
estesbob said:
As Barack Obama reminded us so eloquently in 2008 , elections have consequences.
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In that case I’d assume everyone is great with Obamacare and agrees we should not have extended tax cuts for the top 2% at the end of last yr. But in reality I know from time spent here on CAF that is certainly not the case. 🙂
 
CMatt25 said:
In that case I’d assume everyone is great with Obamacare and agrees we should not have extended tax cuts for the top 2% at the end of last yr. But in reality I know from time spent here on CAF that is certainly not the case. 🙂
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You seem to be forgetting the 2010 elections…:,
 
In that case I’d assume everyone is great with Obamacare and agrees we should not have extended tax cuts for the top 2% at the end of last yr. But in reality I know from time spent here on CAF that is certainly not the case.
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You have it in a nutshell…this forum…never-mind.

John
 
LCMS_No_More said:
Wow. The anger. The hatred. The rage. The loathing being directed towards public employees. I feel like I need to take a bath after reading such vitriolic hatred. 😦

I wonder what Christ thinks about such bile and hatred being expressed by those supporting the governor and his desire to write and pass a law impairing the obligations of contracts.
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I don’t hate them, I just think they’re spoiled. Its fair to expect them to pay a little for their benefits just like the rest of us do. If you checked the link to the article I provided, I think you’ll find no hatred or vitriol, just common sense reasoning - from a Democrat! Its easy to accuse those with whom you disagree of being vitriolic haters. Eventually no one will really listen. Here is the link again. Its from Time magazine, that paragon of right wing hatred and vitriol:

swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/

Ishii
 
ishii said:
I don’t hate them, I just think they’re spoiled. Its fair to expect them to pay a little for their benefits just like the rest of us do. If you checked the link to the article I provided, I think you’ll find no hatred or vitriol, just common sense reasoning - from a Democrat! Its easy to accuse those with whom you disagree of being vitriolic haters. Eventually no one will really listen. Here is the link again. Its from Time magazine, that paragon of right wing hatred and vitriol:

swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/18/wisconsin-the-hemlock-revolution/

Ishii
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I was speaking to my father about this a bit earlier. He was talking about the problems that OK is looking at trying to hire new teachers and pay retired teachers almost their full salary.

It sounds like another bubble to me. I believe even private sector companies who are unionized have had similar problems such as GM. Trying to pay a person with a high school diploma 60k a year for 20 to 30 years then retire and trying to pay that retirement and hiring someone to replace them.

I’m happy with what I have and it’s nowhere near what many public or private union employees make. So, I hardly feel any pity for them.
 
TEPO said:
I completely disagree. The purpose of the Union is to provide safe work practices and environment… Not to demand money.
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tepo, unions don’t demand money, they bargain for it and the employer & union come to an agreement what the wages will be.
 
gamewell45 said:
tepo, unions don’t demand money, they bargain for it and the employer & union come to an agreement what the wages will be.
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Yeah, just like they are “bargaining” in Wisconsin. Where I come from we call that coercion.
 
JackQ said:
I don’t know what conditions the employees in those states work under, but (1) that some are mistreated doesn’t justify the mistreatment of others, and (2) the Popes have uniformly supported collective bargaining since Rerum Novarum,
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In the case of Wisconsin, collective bargaining is being limited, not abolished.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
That’s one of the secrets! People there are quite helpful and friendly, but by showing a tough exterior we can keep the riff-raff out. And, it’s the safest large city in the U.S. - with over 40,000 cops.
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It helped that we were staying with a retired NYPD officer who gave us tips on where to go and where not to go. But it really was a nice surprise.
But, don’t think of taking a handgun to New York. NYC doesn’t recognize even New York State carry permits (which are very hard to get in their own right).
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That’s ok. I don’t own a gun.

Peace

Tim
 
bbarrick8383 said:
I was speaking to my father about this a bit earlier. He was talking about the problems that OK is looking at trying to hire new teachers and pay retired teachers almost their full salary.

It sounds like another bubble to me. I believe even private sector companies who are unionized have had similar problems such as GM. Trying to pay a person with a high school diploma 60k a year for 20 to 30 years then retire and trying to pay that retirement and hiring someone to replace them.

I’m happy with what I have and it’s nowhere near what many public or private union employees make. So, I hardly feel any pity for them.
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Each lives according to their means based on their job skills and ability to bargain with their employer for wages they feel that they are worth. Most likely when you interviewed with your employer you bargained for the money you make; likewise with unionized employees they bargained with their employer for their wages. As long as you are happy with your wages and lifestyle, life can’t be too bad.
 
gamewell45 said:
True, but its like having a dog that’s toothless.
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I do not know about that. I just wanted to clarify the point that collective bargaining on wages would still be open, so it is a hard sell to say there is a Catholic position on this.
 
K-McD said:
Yeah, just like they are “bargaining” in Wisconsin. Where I come from we call that coercion.
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The threatened coercion is coming from the Legislature. It is the Legislature that is trying to take away bargaining rights.
 
estesbob said:
You seem to be forgetting the 2010 elections…:,
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No I’m not forgetting Obama wasn’t on the ballot in 2010. He was last on the ballot in 2008 and campaigned for among other things, the things I mentioned to you, healthcare reform, the end of the Bush tax cuts for the weathiest. And was elected in his election too. That was my point.
 
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