Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

[Monte_RCMS]

I agree with part of what you say. This comment you quote was for the democrats. They are going ahead with 8 recall petitions. All they need are three. It’s a safe bet, they’ll get them. for the record, I’m a staunch pro-life voter. I’m at war with the republicans because they have turned on me. They picked this fight and they should suffer because of it. Then we’ll see how it goes from there.

For the workers, I posted this.
“I’m thinking it’s the looming threat of recall . I just hope they are all sitting at the table soon.”

ATB

Whereas the Democrats even refuse to show up for work, after they were elected to hold those positions, then the Democrat no-shows should also be subject to recall petitions.

 

[lynx]

Whereas the Democrats even refuse to show up for work, after they were elected to hold those positions, then the Democrat no-shows should also be subject to recall petitions.

Sure. Why not? Lets see if the public supports how they’ve been behaving.

 

[a_priori]

What the H E DOUBLE TOOTHPICKS are you talking about? Walker inherited a Balanced budget. The only reason they have a looming deficit. Is because of his tax breaks for business. Can it be any planer?

So everything was fine? Wisconsin voters had an episode of mass psychoses and voted in Republicans who campaigned on budget cutting? This was needless because everything was fine. Then those Republicans did what they said they would do and ruined everything? Plain? Nope. I’m not feelin’ it.

 

[rmartensjr]

The $150,000 Bus Driver

In 2009, the City of Madison’s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009.

“That’s the (drivers’) contract,” said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson.

Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10

 

[lynx]

So everything was fine? Wisconsin voters had an episode of mass psychoses and voted in Republicans who campaigned on budget cutting? This was needless because everything was fine. Then those Republicans did what they said they would do and ruined everything? Plain? Nope. I’m not feelin’ it.

What did cutting collective bargaining have to do with the budget? The WI bill only passed the senate because the WI GOP classified it as non-fiscal, and then rushed it through. So… does this make the bill useless yet? It has been classified as non-fiscal…

 

[lynx]

The $150,000 Bus Driver

In 2009, the City of Madison’s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009.

“That’s the (drivers’) contract,” said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson.

Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10

A contract is a contract is a contract (bonus points for whoever gets the reference w/o google) You can’t do much about those under contract, but what you can do is ask for pay cuts, reductions of benefits, contributions to pensions, etc and if they don’t do it then start firing people. No need to remove collective bargaining.

 

[bbarrick8383]

A contract is a contract is a contract (bonus points for whoever gets the reference w/o google) You can’t do much about those under contract, but what you can do is ask for pay cuts, reductions of benefits, contributions to pensions, etc and if they don’t do it then start firing people. No need to remove collective bargaining.

The fact that this is being done to taxpayers is enough reason to get rid of collective bargaining, if not public unions altogether.

 

[lynx]

The fact that this is being done to taxpayers is enough reason to get rid of collective bargaining, if not public unions altogether.

Who agreed to those contracts? Probably the same people who agreed to the large pensions now contractually obligated in CA. There are bad contracts, no doubt about it. This doesn’t mean you should remove the right that workers have fought for for decades. When the employer has the option to fire you why remove collective bargaining?

 

[bbarrick8383]

Who agreed to those contracts? Probably the same people who agreed to the large pensions now contractually obligated in CA. There are bad contracts, no doubt about it. This doesn’t mean you should remove the right that workers have fought for for decades. When the employer has the option to fire you why remove collective bargaining?

Because it’s a failure in the public sector.

Politicians and unions can be bad, mix them togethor and they can be worse.

 

[lynx]

Because it’s a failure in the public sector.

Politicians and unions can be bad, mix them togethor and they can be worse.

Then remove the power from both equally. If you’re going to remove the tools employees use to negotiate then enforce standards from employers upfront such as no forced furloughs, guaranteed PTO, pay that increases with inflation and according to job performance, no additional forced fees into insurance premiums, etc. Also, you’d need to limit the amount of donations that corporations and unions can donate to politicians (ie influence), if not removing contributions completely.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Then remove the power from both equally. If you’re going to remove the tools employees use to negotiate then enforce standards from employers upfront such as no forced furloughs, guaranteed PTO, pay that increases with inflation and according to job performance, no additional forced fees into insurance premiums, etc. Also, you’d need to limit the amount of donations that corporations and unions can donate to politicians (ie influence), if not removing contributions completely.

What needs to be in place for public employees, and each state should be in control of this, is a standard employee pay scale that would be equal to the average private sector job of comparison for the specific location of that job. The benefits need to mirror the average benefits of the private sector in that state. They should be reviewed by the legislature on a periodical basis with absolutely no union involvement. I have no problem with teacher salaries being higher than what many of them are, I do have a problem with what some of the Principles and Superintendents are making though.

Here in OK, a politician said that our biggest union in the state was the teachers union. We just passed laws to give power back to the school board for firing them. And I don’t know what’s happened in the last 15 to 20 years since I graduated but as salaries went up, education and the diversity of classes went down. And it keeps getting worse.

As far as the private sector, good luck getting politicians to restrict donations from unions. The left will never agree to that. As far as corporations, if they aren’t American or majority American owned then I agree they shouldn’t be contributing to politicians in my opinion. Now they could set up a PAC for their American employees to donate to on their own.

I think it should be illegal and immediately investigated if their are suspicions of individual foreign donors. I know there were some allegations that Obama received some, not sure what happened to it though.

 

[iamrefreshed]

A contract is a contract is a contract (bonus points for whoever gets the reference w/o google) You can’t do much about those under contract, but what you can do is ask for pay cuts, reductions of benefits, contributions to pensions, etc and if they don’t do it then start firing people. No need to remove collective bargaining.

You don’t get it do you?

This is EXACTLY why collective bargaining was removed!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Sorry, I hadn’t realized that collective bargaining was an issue in the recent elections. Must have missed that part…

Well, I don’t live in Wisconsin, so I didn’t follow their local elections.

However, those who want collective bargaining can run their campaigns in the next election, with the promise to return collective bargaining.

If the people want it, they’ll get elected.

Its the difference between totalitarian states and democracies I was pointing to.

Jim

 

[Mickey_Finn]

So everything was fine? Wisconsin voters had an episode of mass psychoses and voted in Republicans who campaigned on budget cutting? This was needless because everything was fine. Then those Republicans did what they said they would do and ruined everything? Plain? Nope. I’m not feelin’ it.

Walker didn’t campaign on any of these things. Further, it’s become a national war on workers rights.

I believe you choose not to see.

ATB

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Walker didn’t campaign on any of these things. ATB

So what if he didn’t?

The next election, challengers can campaign with the promise to return collective bargaining.

See if they get elected should they choose to make this a campaign promise.

Jim

 

[pnewton]

The $150,000 Bus Driver

In 2009, the City of Madison’s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009.

“That’s the (drivers’) contract,” said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson.

Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10

This is an example of economic mismanagement. If unemployment in the Midwest is so bad, then there is a good pool to hire additional non-union drivers at straight time to avoid overtime. This sort of union busting does need to occur in the name of social justice for both union and non-union workers.

 

[pnewton]

Walker didn’t campaign on any of these things. Further, it’s become a national war on workers rights.

I believe you choose not to see.

I believe you are right that there is a movement that transcends state lines to take away **union **workers rights. I do not know if this can be translated to all workers though. In fact, hopefully it will increase the right to work for non-union workers and allow them a little more equality in the job market.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

I believe you are right that there is a movement that transcends state lines to take away **union **workers rights. I do not know if this can be translated to all workers though. In fact, hopefully it will increase the right to work for non-union workers and allow them a little more equality in the job market.

Not likely. The rising tide lifts all boats. The unions are the tide. They improve wages, benefits, job site saftey. These cross over to the non-union workers With out unions raising the tide. The boats will continue to settle to the lowest possible point. This is without a doubt. Class warfare. The pity is that so many choose to remain blind to it.

ATB

 

[Mickey_Finn]

So what if he didn’t?

The next election, challengers can campaign with the promise to return collective bargaining.

See if they get elected should they choose to make this a campaign promise.

Jim

?

 

[pnewton]

Not likely. The rising tide lifts all boats. The unions are the tide. They improve wages, benefits, job site saftey. These cross over to the non-union workers With out unions raising the tide. The boats will continue to settle to the lowest possible point. This is without a doubt. Class warfare. The pity is that so many choose to remain blind to it.

The principle of buoyancy does not apply to economics. One is a physical science and the other a social science. I think the union worker who was laid off so that the older worker with more seniority could displace him in his job would not agree. I know several who have quit unions (fortunately something that is allowed here) because its seniority structure unfair discriminates. The did not rise with the tide but were torpedoed by their own union. In Texas, this type of structure is a pyramid scheme, where those in first benefit from those that are new. Unions can engage in unjust practices toward workers just as much as corporations can.

I will not do you the same disservice of calling you blind because you do not agree. Disagreement is the nature of humanity, not a form of blindness. However, do the unions ever take any actions to help non-union employees directly? Would they assist a worker that does not pay dues and has no interest in joining them?