Three Days of Darkness?

[Sir_Knight]

*** Continued from PREVIOUS Post ***

But hermeneutics aside, how do you account for this from the Psalms? “The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness.” The dissonance between the wrathful image of God (which is a tribal warrior deity image) and the image of God in the Psalms as compassionate and gracious is overcome by the person of Christ who shows us who God is.

Consider Origen’s good advice–if we come to an interpretation of scripture that leads us to an image of God which does not match what we know of God in Christ (i.e., if we have in image of God as a psychopath or a grumpy old man in the sky), then our interpretation is at fault.

I see no problem with it. God has waited MANY decades for people to turn from their sinful ways and it hasn’t happen.

We are told that the Sons of God lusted after the daughters of men. Are the demons Sons of God? Does a spiritual creature literally have genetic material to pass on to offspring?

And let’s not forget that matter is a gift to us, our bodies are a gift. God made matter good, and as it has no will of its own, its nature is directed towards the good unless it is perverted by the uses to which it is put. In other words, matter is an instrument of our salvation–that is, more or less, its purpose. Is it so for the demons too? The ones who presumably incarnate? When a demon takes a body, is it possible for that body (in keeping with its nature) to be an instrument for the demon’s salvation? . I doubt it–in other words, matter is foreign to the demons. They have no flesh natural to them–they can only assume it or incarnate.

But how is this incarnation accomplished? Do they inhabit a body? Animate it? Is it accomplished through possession? Or do they, like Jesus Christ become flesh? And how is that possible? How is it that a demon, who has no flesh, can become flesh? Do they share in the nature of the flesh into which they incarnate, like Jesus did? If they don’t, how is it that they incarnate, as the only nature they would inhabit is their own, and as their own nature is fleshless, how is it that they can put on flesh?

I think your more folkloric familiarity with demonology is lacking in practical specifics–and is perhaps informed by watching to many films or TV shows.

It is best to assume that the demons may appear to be material. But that appearance is only that, an appearance.

Then kindly explain who these “Sons of God” were that had sex with the “daughters of man” and gave birth to the “heroes of old”? Every commentary on this matter that I have ever heard has implied that demons mated with women. If you have a different understanding, I would be most interested in hearing it.

Your theology is a mystery to me–are you actually suggesting that God allows demons to tempt us in order that we can be damned and not in order that we can overcome the temptation and live? That is not Christian theology, friend. I suggest you re-read your catechism.

Possession, like any trial or suffering, is an opportunity to offer that suffering to God and thereby draw nearer to him. No, the demon is not an instrument of a better relationship with God–the demon is a thorn, the suffering it produces in us is potentially a gateway to holiness.

And what was the point of Satan tempting Eve? Didn’t God USE Satan to test us by ALLOWING Satan to tempt Eve? If God used Satan for this purpose, which by the way, lead to the fall of mankind where MANY were damned, why could God not use them to cleanse the earth?

But that doesn’t seem to be the understanding of these prophecies which speak of the demons running through streets, knocking on doors (how polite), and “devouring” people who don’t have the proper objects to keep them at bay.

And how did blood on a doorpost save the first born Hebrews in Egypt?

I’m sorry, but I cannot lend much credence to these private prophecies which do indeed look more like perversions of the gospel. The church may see them as useful in some way, but I think her reluctance to accept them as truth speaks volumes with regard to their actual substance.

You don’t have to accept them but the church has declared them WORTHY of belief and those who have brought us these prophecies have been officially declared as saints.

What does that tell you? Were these prophecies from God or from the evil one? If from the evil one, then wouldn’t that mean that the church errored in making them saints? And if from God, then why not believe them?

 

[Jacafamala]

Sir Knight: You don’t have to accept them but the church has declared them WORTHY of belief and those who have brought us these prophecies have been officially declared as saints.

What does that tell you? Were these prophecies from God or from the evil one? If from the evil one, then wouldn’t that mean that the church errored in making them saints? And if from God, then why not believe them?

Please show me where these prophecies of the ‘three days’ come from, because I still don’t see a credible source. Every link I’ve seen on this thread so far is from schismatic sources, as far as I can tell.

I understand that these saints and blessed existed, but how do we know they said what’s been claimed? That’s my problem with all this.
Pax Christi,
Ann

 

[Sir_Knight]

tldm.org/news/darkness-11-13-98.htm … Keep your windows well covered. Do not look out. Light a blessed candle, which will suffice for many days. Pray the rosary. Read spiritual books. Make acts of Spiritual Communion, also acts of love, which are so pleasing to Us. Pray with outstretched arms, or prostrate on the ground, in order that many souls may be saved. Do not go outside the house. Provide yourself with sufficient food. The powers of nature shall be moved and a rain of fire shall make people tremble with fear. Have courage! I am in the midst of you. – Saint Padre Pio.

biblia.com/jesusbible/joel5.htm * … On that day, as soon as complete darkness has set in, no one shall leave the house or look out of the window. The darkness shall last a day and a night, followed by another day and a night, and another day - but on the night following, the starts will shine again, and on the next morning the sun shall rise again, and it will be springtime!’

'My beloved, have confidence. I am in the midst of you. My kingdom shall be glorified and My Name shall be blessed from the rising of the sun unto the setting thereof; and to My Kingdom there shall be no end… 'Those who hope in Me, and believe in my words, have nothing to fear because I will not forsake them, nor those who are in the state of grace and who seek My mother’s protection.

'In the days of darkness, My elect shall not sleep, as did the disciples in the Garden of Olives. They shall pray incessantly, and they shall not be disappointed in Me. I shall gather My elect. Hell will believe itself to be in possession of the entire earth, but I shall reclaim it.*

opusdeialert.com/3daysofdarkness.htm

 

[Michael_Howard]

(…CONTINUED & COMPLETED)

We are told that the Sons of God lusted after the daughters of men. Are the demons Sons of God? Does a spiritual creature literally have genetic material to pass on to offspring?

And let’s not forget that matter is a gift to us, our bodies are a gift. God made matter good, and as it has no will of its own, its nature is directed towards the good unless it is perverted by the uses to which it is put. In other words, matter is an instrument of our salvation–that is, more or less, its purpose. Is it so for the demons too? The ones who presumably incarnate? When a demon takes a body, is it possible for that body (in keeping with its nature) to be an instrument for the demon’s salvation? . I doubt it–in other words, matter is foreign to the demons. They have no flesh natural to them–they can only assume it or incarnate.

But how is this incarnation accomplished? Do they inhabit a body? Animate it? Is it accomplished through possession? Or do they, like Jesus Christ become flesh? And how is that possible? How is it that a demon, who has no flesh, can become flesh? Do they share in the nature of the flesh into which they incarnate, like Jesus did? If they don’t, how is it that they incarnate, as the only nature they would inhabit is their own, and as their own nature is fleshless, how is it that they can put on flesh?

I think your more folkloric familiarity with demonology is lacking in practical specifics–and is perhaps informed by watching to many films or TV shows.

It is best to assume that the demons may appear to be material. But that appearance is only that, an appearance.

Your theology is a mystery to me–are you actually suggesting that God allows demons to tempt us in order that we can be damned and not in order that we can overcome the temptation and live? That is not Christian theology, friend. I suggest you re-read your catechism.

Possession, like any trial or suffering, is an opportunity to offer that suffering to God and thereby draw nearer to him. No, the demon is not an instrument of a better relationship with God–the demon is a thorn, the suffering it produces in us is potentially a gateway to holiness.

But that doesn’t seem to be the understanding of these prophecies which speak of the demons running through streets, knocking on doors (how polite), and “devouring” people who don’t have the proper objects to keep them at bay.

I’m sorry, but I cannot lend much credence to these private prophecies which do indeed look more like perversions of the gospel. The church may see them as useful in some way, but I think her reluctance to accept them as truth speaks volumes with regard to their actual substance.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!

Amen:thumbsup:

 

[Margaret33]

The Church will not speak of things that are not verifiable. The three days of darkness has not been revealed to the Church, it has come through private revelations. The Church would be quite irresponsible to create a panic over such prophecies, especially since no-one can say if they are true or not, and if they are true no-one can say when or how. Rather, the Church’s mission in this area is to teach that everyone is to be ready all the time.

Please help me understand (I truly do wish to know, not being sarcastic) how something such as the concept of the three days of darkness is categorized as private revelation, when it can be found in numerous places in the bible.

link to areas in the bible:
biblia.com/jesusbible/joel5.htm

Is it considered private revelation because it hasn’t been addressed by the Church directly? Or because of where in the bible it is mentioned? (excuse my ignorance please)

 

[Sir_Knight]

The Church’s mission is the teach the message given to it by Christ. Period. Anything else, the church merely declares worthy of belief or not. The “Three Days of Darkness” has been declared worthy of belief and those who have brought us this message have been declared saints by the church (Pio, Faustina, etc.).

That’s a pretty good indication that it is true.

 

[Jennifer_G]

tldm.org/news/darkness-11-13-98.htm … Keep your windows well covered. Do not look out. Light a blessed candle, which will suffice for many days. Pray the rosary. Read spiritual books. Make acts of Spiritual Communion, also acts of love, which are so pleasing to Us. Pray with outstretched arms, or prostrate on the ground, in order that many souls may be saved. Do not go outside the house. Provide yourself with sufficient food. The powers of nature shall be moved and a rain of fire shall make people tremble with fear. Have courage! I am in the midst of you. – Saint Padre Pio.

Isn’t that site through Medjugorje or Garabandal? I remember finding that site through one of the other two apparition’s websites years ago. (I believe it was Garabandal, which is unnaproved, that said there would be a Great Warning, Great Miracle, then the TToD. So, that would be something to watch out for since it comes from an unnaproved site, and walk away from. Quickly.)

 

[Sir_Knight]

It’s also mentioned in Faustina’s writings and she is officially recognized as a Saint.

 

[Mijoy2]

What if I don’t have an candles, can I use flashlights?

 

[djrakowski]

It’s also mentioned in Faustina’s writings and she is officially recognized as a Saint.

Where? My wife went through some of her writings of St. Faustina and found no reference to this phenomenon.

 

[djrakowski]

Isn’t that site through Medjugorje or Garabandal? I remember finding that site through one of the other two apparition’s websites years ago. (I believe it was Garabandal, which is unnaproved, that said there would be a Great Warning, Great Miracle, then the TToD. So, that would be something to watch out for since it comes from an unnaproved site, and walk away from. Quickly.)

Right. This is what my pastor and another apologist-friend have told me recently. Good advice!

Anyone read Magnficat? Yesterday’s scripture meditation, from St. Peter Chrysologus, Doctor of the Church, was all about how we need not live in abject fear of the Lord. I’ll take his advice any day over some alleged vision given to one of the saints (claimed to be in one of her writings but never quoted or sourced), connected to unapproved apparitions like Garabandal and Medjugorje.

 

[djrakowski]

The Church’s mission is the teach the message given to it by Christ. Period. Anything else, the church merely declares worthy of belief or not. The “Three Days of Darkness” has been declared worthy of belief and those who have brought us this message have been declared saints by the church (Pio, Faustina, etc.).

That’s a pretty good indication that it is true.

Where has it been declared worthy of belief? I’ve seen plenty of such claims, but never sourced or directly quoted.

 

[AlexV]

Canonization does not equal a commentary on the veracity of a private revelation.

Private revelations are unnecessary for Catholics. There is absolutely nothing in them that is either necessary for salvation or “extra news” that isn’t in Divine Revelation.

Revelation ended with the Ascension of Christ. The alleged “visions” and “warnings” and “apocalyptic horrors” and Marian itinerary/travel plans are both untraditional and unnecessary.

 

[Tom317]

Canonization does not equal a commentary on the veracity of a private revelation.

Private revelations are unnecessary for Catholics. There is absolutely nothing in them that is either necessary for salvation or “extra news” that isn’t in Divine Revelation.

Revelation ended with the Ascension of Christ. The alleged “visions” and “warnings” and “apocalyptic horrors” and Marian itinerary/travel plans are both untraditional and unnecessary.

So, we can place you on the “no beeswax candles” list, right?

 

[Sir_Knight]

What if I don’t have an candles, can I use flashlights?

Mostlikely not. Intense radiation fields can affect eletromagnetic devices. Thus, anything running on electricity or batteries may not work for that reason.

 

[Jacafamala]

QUOTE=Sir Knight;http://www.tldm.org/news/darkness-11-13-98.htm

… Keep your windows well covered. Do not look out. Light a blessed candle, which will suffice for many days. Pray the rosary. Read spiritual books. Make acts of Spiritual Communion, also acts of love, which are so pleasing to Us. Pray with outstretched arms, or prostrate on the ground, in order that many souls may be saved. Do not go outside the house. Provide yourself with sufficient food. The powers of nature shall be moved and a rain of fire shall make people tremble with fear. Have courage! I am in the midst of you. – Saint Padre Pio.

Sir Knight, if you follow this link above to the home page, ‘Virgin Mary’s End Time Prophecies,’ you’ll see stuff about the Bayside movement, which has been banned by the Church.

It also claims that the third secret from Fatima, which was announced by Cardinal Bertone was forged–are they calling Bertone and JPII liars? Sorry, that’s not a credible link. I don’t trust that. Schism, schism, schism.

biblia.com/jesusbible/joel5.htm * … On that day, as soon as complete darkness has set in, no one shall leave the house or look out of the window. The darkness shall last a day and a night, followed by another day and a night, and another day - but on the night following, the starts will shine again, and on the next morning the sun shall rise again, and it will be springtime!’

'My beloved, have confidence. I am in the midst of you. My kingdom shall be glorified and My Name shall be blessed from the rising of the sun unto the setting thereof; and to My Kingdom there shall be no end… 'Those who hope in Me, and believe in my words, have nothing to fear because I will not forsake them, nor those who are in the state of grace and who seek My mother’s protection.

'In the days of darkness, My elect shall not sleep, as did the disciples in the Garden of Olives. They shall pray incessantly, and they shall not be disappointed in Me. I shall gather My elect. Hell will believe itself to be in possession of the entire earth, but I shall reclaim it.*

This one’s shaky, at best. Because if you follow their links, it’ll take you to pages on Medjegorje and Garabandal–neither of which I give any credence to.

opusdeialert.com/3daysofdarkness.htm

Ok, I went to their home page, and here’s what I found right off the bat:
*“This website is dedicated in reparation for the offenses, outrages and overall misrepresentation of true Catholic devotion to St. Joseph, the worthy spouse of the Most Chaste Virgin, as is advanced and perpetrated by the anti-Catholic Talmudic sect known as Opus Dei.” *

So, Opus Dei is an anti-Catholic Talmudic sect? Say What???!!! Again: not a credible source.

Picky, picky, I know. But I’d just like to see something credible before I buy into this stuff.
Pax Christi,
Ann

 

[bear06]

Yes, somehow the fact that this is an anti-Opus Dei site was overlooked by Shoshana.

 

[AlexV]

Total nonsense, all of it. Capitalizes on the innate fear in fallen man of imminent dissolution of his body. Designed to spread fear, nothing more. Not worth the time or the energy.

 

[djrakowski]

Here’s the text of the scripture meditation I mentioned in an earlier post:

How to Approach Christ’s Passion

I appeal to you by the mercy of God. This appeal is made by Paul, or rather, it is made by God through Paul, because of God’s desire to be loved rather than feared, to be a father rather than a lord. God appeals to us in his mercy to avoid having to punish us in his severity.

Listen to the Lord’s appeal. In me, I want you to see your own body, your emmbers, your heart, your bones, you blood. You may fear what is divine, but why not love what is human? You may run away from me as the Lord, but why not run to me as your father? Perhaps you are filled with shame for causing my bitter passion. Do not be afraid. This cross inflicts a mortal injury, not on me, but on death. These nails no longer pain me, but only deepen your love for me. I do not cry out because of these wounds, but through them I draw you into my heart. My body was stretched out on the cross as a symbol, not of how much I suffered, but of my all-embracing love. I count it no loss to shed my blood: it is the price I have paid for your ransom. Come, then, return to me and learn to know me as your father, who repays good for evil, love for injury, and boundless charity for piercing wounds.

• Saint Peter Chrysologus, Doctor of the Church, quoted in the scripture meditation for May 30, 2007 in Magnificat magazine.

 

[Tom317]

Total nonsense, all of it. Capitalizes on the innate fear in fallen man of imminent dissolution of his body. Designed to spread fear, nothing more. Not worth the time or the energy.

I notice you are taking time on this subject…interesting.