Three illegal immigrants shot dead crossing US border: police

[MariaG]

Please don’t misunderstand Maria, I am firm in my position that although illegals receive life saving care…I am not happy about it at all. I might not have such a problem with it if there was decent health care available to all Americans. Many citizens now have to resort to the ER for their only health care…often when they are seriously ill because they have not have had preventative care. So, we have the citizen AND the illegals all jockeying for the SAME health care buck and it is getting stretched pretty darn thin.

:heart:Blyss

No, I understood this from you I understand Ranting against injustice too. It is medical care for hardworking people is atrocious. Let’s give benefits to a limited number of poor, but include the “sex Change” operations as “necessary medical care”.

We always need to make sure though that the injustice of the whole, does not make us lose sight of individuals. I don’t think you did, I am not sure yet about AdvanceAlways, though I do assume it is the media and not his/her opinion that a person should be left to die in the desert if illegal because they should not recieve lifesaving medical care.

 

[Kendy]

Exactly!! I think this is what people want…an immigration policy that will let us know who is entering this country…why they want to come here and make some order of a chaotic situation. BUT…do you really think that even with a reformed immigration policy that all illegals will abide by it? I don’t believe that for a minute. There will always be those who do not want to follow the laws of our land even with a more liberal policy. Why? Because for decades now they have been able to enter this country at will and go where they want and nothing has happened to them. THAT needs to change too. I am for a new immigration policy and one that is fair to everyone concerned. One that is also strong against any illegal immigration…and one with teeth in it.

:heart:Blyss

Please, keep in mind that illegal immigrants are people. People will act in their best interest. It is in their best interest to immigrate legally. First, they can actually enjoy many of the public resources that they are now accused of taking, they can send their kids to college, they can drive legally. They can live without fear of raids. As I stated before, I grew up in a immigrant city, and people were ready to sell a kidne to get legal status.

Now, there might still be people who choose to immigrate illegal, but because that number will be significantly reduced, it will be more manageable for our security forces. It’s a win-win.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

No, I understood this from you I understand Ranting against injustice too. It is medical care for hardworking people is atrocious. Let’s give benefits to a limited number of poor, but include the “sex Change” operations as “necessary medical care”.

Good point!

:heart:Blyss

 

[MariaG]

Maria…my heart goes out to these children. In a small town close to where I live a young Hispanic girl (16) was brought to this country illegally when she was 3 by her mother. The mother became abusive to the girl and to make a long story short…gave up her parental rights. The girl was 9 at the time and she went to live with a family in the neighborhood who took over guardianship of her and who later wanted to adopt her. You would think that would be ok since she had grown up in this country, but NO…when the family went to start legal adoption proceedings they were told the girl would have to go back to Mexico for a certain length of time and then return. She knew no one in Mexico and so the would be adoptive parents went with her and they stayed in a hotel to fulfill the requirements and then they tried to return with her and they faced more complications. I don’t know how the story played out, I think it was going to be finalized sometime last fall but I haven’t heard. This is one situation where immigration is gone awry. This girl was more American than anything else, she had grown up here…knew no one in Mexico and yet she had to go through hoops to remain here. Ridiculous!

:heart:Blyss

Yes, completely ridiculous. These children are being held responsible for the sins of the parents.

But I am praying Bush has been sympathetic to Mexican immigration. He will be leaving office soon and can burn as many bridges as he likes. Maybe like Regan, people will be legal with a stroke of the pen. I pray for this not for the adults so much, for the children.

 

[Kendy]

Kendy…why do you feel that to debate someone who disagrees with you that you must resort to personal attacks? You have previously done that to me and I find you do it to everyone you disagree with. Debate their views…but don’t make it personal.

:heart:Blyss

I have had many civil discussion about many issues on this forum. But I have no tolerance for people who can’t show compassion to others because they happen not to be Americans. I am appalled by this utter lack of love for neighbor.

Kendy

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Please, keep in mind that illegal immigrants are people. People will act in their best interest. It is in their best interest to immigrate legally. First, they can actually enjoy many of the public resources that they are now accused of taking, they can send their kids to college, they can drive legally. They can live without fear of raids. As I stated before, I grew up in a immigrant city, and people were ready to sell a kidne to get legal status.

Now, there might still be people who choose to immigrate illegal, but because that number will be significantly reduced, it will be more manageable for our security forces. It’s a win-win.

I know they are people kendy…but the laws are there and if we don’t like them we need to change them. We need to know who is coming into this country and what “baggage” they bring with them. In many states now…illegals are being given certificates where they can drive legally and obtain insurance…some states are giving in-state tuition to illegals…while kids from a neighboring state have to pay out state tuition and up until just recently people were living without the fear of being found out that they are illegal.It was just recently with the Minutemen and the rallies the illegals were in last spring that has brought so much attention to the illegal immigration problem. You didn’t hear much about illegal immigration, say 2 or 3 years ago. Now, the heat is on.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I have had many civil discussion about many issues on this forum. But I have no tolerance for people who can’t show compassion to others because they happen not to be Americans. I am appalled by this utter lack of love for neighbor.

Kendy

It is one thing to feel that another poster is not being caring and comnpassionate, but I think it crosses the line to bring that to the board. It proves nothing and only enflames the discussion which I think is much more productive when it does not get personal.

:heart:Blyss

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Yes, completely ridiculous. These children are being held responsible for the sins of the parents.

But I am praying Bush has been sympathetic to Mexican immigration. He will be leaving office soon and can burn as many bridges as he likes. Maybe like Regan, people will be legal with a stroke of the pen. I pray for this not for the adults so much, for the children.

I don’t see any other recourse for the millions here now who are illegal. We cannot send them all back…that just isn’t logical. BUT…we need to start anew and with an immigration policy that is fair and just, but that has some strength to it. Those here illegally now, must come forward and let us know who they are and they need to pay a fine or a penalty for coming here against the laws of the land. Then they can go on to live their lives as productive members of society.

BUT…we cannot keep giving amnesties every 20 years or so. We cannot have an immigration policy by default…

:heart:Blyss

 

[dorothy_smith]

I am shocked and appalled at the outright racism that some of you are posting. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Kendy]

I know they are people kendy…but the laws are there and if we don’t like them we need to change them. {/QUOTE]

I wrote a very detailed post as to why the laws have not been changed. I rather your respond to the issues I addressed there rather than pointing out what we all already know which is that the law is there.
BlyssfulDreamer;1900803:

We need to know who is coming into this country and what “baggage” they bring with them.

Which is why we need immigration reform.

In many states now…illegals are being given certificates where they can drive legally and obtain insurance…some states are giving in-state tuition to illegals…while kids from a neighboring state have to pay out state tuition and up until just recently people were living without the fear of being found out that they are illegal.It was just recently with the Minutemen and the rallies the illegals were in last spring that has brought so much attention to the illegal immigration problem. You didn’t hear much about illegal immigration, say 2 or 3 years ago. Now, the heat is on.

:heart:Blyss

I have heard about illegal immigration constantly for the past 15 years. Usually around ellection time.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

It is one thing to feel that another poster is not being caring and comnpassionate, but I think it crosses the line to bring that to the board. It proves nothing and only enflames the discussion which I think is much more productive when it does not get personal.

:heart:Blyss

Oh seriously, how many of these illegal immigrant discussion are actually productive?

I only get involved if something really makes me angry, which is why you think I get “personal”. And this made me really angry. But this is mostly a waste of precious time.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

I don’t see any other recourse for the millions here now who are illegal. We cannot send them all back…that just isn’t logical. BUT…we need to start anew and with an immigration policy that is fair and just, but that has some strength to it. Those here illegally now, must come forward and let us know who they are and they need to pay a fine or a penalty for coming here against the laws of the land. Then they can go on to live their lives as productive members of society.

BUT…we cannot keep giving amnesties every 20 years or so. We cannot have an immigration policy by default…

:heart:Blyss

I actually agree with your policy prescription. But I hope you would realize that it’s the anti-immigrant feelings that you have expressed on this board that keeps this policy from happening. Our officials are not doing this because they are afraid of offending people like you so they do nothing because they figure as long as they don’t do anything they can get in trouble politically. It would help if you took what you just said in your last post and shared it with your congress people . As long as all they hear is angry rhetoric about Mexicans crowding hospitals, they will do nothing.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

In the old testament (someone please help me with citation because I don’t remember) there was a law which allowed the poor to pick from the harvest during certain times.

There were also laws requiring the Israelities to give access to foreigners

Why was this law enacted for the Israelites. I think the reasons are as follows:

1. It recognized that the Land really belonged to God, and that no one person was entitled to it.
2. That it was by chance and grace that you were lucky enough to have this land and therefore you have a responsibility to share it.
3. That God never allows us to ignore the needs of the poor.
4. That people who need to feed their children are going to break the law if they have to so it is better to give them what they need tan to deal with the chaos of them stealing it.

As Americans, we are fortunate to have this bountiful land. We did nothing to deserve it, and have no right to behave as if we are entitled. I am convinced that that kind of arrogance is offensive to God. The only thing we can do is to acknowledge how excessively wealthy we are, and share that with others.

Second, I have heard talk about American poverty. I have lived in one of the poorest ghettos in the US, and I have lived in the poorest country in the Western hemisphere, and I can assure you from personal witness that the poorest American knows nothing about poverty when compared to the deprivation that many face in the world.

We, who consume, a disproportionate amount of the world resources (40%), have a responsibility to stop and think about how our consumption affects other people. We also have a great responsibility to consider how God intends for us to use this bounty. God never blesses anyone so that they can keep it to themselves. And the person who selfishes hoards his blessings will lose it.

Kendy

 

[Ituyu]

Kendy…why do you feel that to debate someone who disagrees with you that you must resort to personal attacks? You have previously done that to me and I find you do it to everyone you disagree with. Debate their views…but don’t make it personal.

:heart:Blyss

Oh PLEASE!!

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Do you have FACTS to support this claim? I don’t believe you do, because when it comes right down to it…we do not know how many Muslim terrorists come through the border till AFTER the fact.

:heart:Blyss

Why do I really think this is simply another attempt to hide from your many poor statements you were asked to document and have not done so???

Of course I can document (see I do not have to make it up) In the 9/11 report if you search on the words “visa” or “passport” it will document the cases one by one. However you can simply look at the recommendations and see the report recommends “imposing tighter controls on student visas” ( Pg 204) 9-11commission.gov/report/index.htm

If you spent have the time documenting your posts as you spend running from your words, you would be a better person.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Kendy…why do you feel that to debate someone who disagrees with you that you must resort to personal attacks? You have previously done that to me and I find you do it to everyone you disagree with. Debate their views…but don’t make it personal.

:heart:Blyss

Actually this is called transference. I noticed it before, what you accuse others of is what someone has previously accused you of. The problem here is their comment is based on your writing how ever your comment is based on your past experience not on the subject at hand thus communication breaks down.

 

[Crumpy]

This is an emotional issue, and I understand the implications of the gospel.

But, in this country, as in many others, theft is not legal. And, these illegal immigrants are stealing quite a bit from the U.S. If there was a plausable argument that we need this source of labor, then legal immigration could solve it, along with the fact that tens of millions of illegals are here already.

These people are here to steal, plain and simple. You or I wouldn’t get away with anything like this in Mexico. Who is kidding who here?

Not only would you not get away with this in Mexico, there would be a tremendous prejudice against you, being from the U.S. And, Mexico does not have an American-like constitution. There is no presumption of innocence – you are assumed guilty until proved otherwise. There is no system of due process. You do not have a right to freedom from abuse or torture in prison. You have to pay for your own keep in jail or in prison. And, on and on.

These people are here to steal, plain and simple. Where does it say that people have the right to steal, in the bible?

We fought a war with Mexico for the western states, fair and square. We won.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Do you advocate law breaking when you don’t like the "failed public policy’? What would be the matter with changing it?

Even the Bible states about obeying the authority of the government…Romans 13:1-7.

:heart:Blyss

umh, was it not the Pharisees accusing Jesus of breaking the law? Healing and harvesting on Sundays?

 

[Kendy]

This is an emotional issue, and I understand the implications of the gospel.

But, in this country, as in many others, theft is not legal. And, these illegal immigrants are stealing quite a bit from the U.S. If there was a plausable argument that we need this source of labor, then legal immigration could solve it, along with the fact that tens of millions of illegals are here already.

These people are here to steal, plain and simple. You or I wouldn’t get away with anything like this in Mexico. Who is kidding who here?

Not only would you not get away with this in Mexico, there would be a tremendous prejudice against you, being from the U.S. And, Mexico does not have an American-like constitution. There is no presumption of innocence – you are assumed guilty until proved otherwise. There is no system of due process. You do not have a right to freedom from abuse or torture in prison. You have to pay for your own keep in jail or in prison. And, on and on.

These people are here to steal, plain and simple. Where does it say that people have the right to steal, in the bible?

We fought a war with Mexico for the western states, fair and square. We won.

I don’t know how fair and square it was but it is what it is. How Mexicans would treat us is besides the point. As Christians, we don’t “do unto others as we are afraid they might do unto us.”

The only real question is what what is good, wise, and just public policy. Right now, our policy does not fit those requirements.

Kendy

 

[Texas_Roofer]

In the old testament (someone please help me with citation because I don’t remember) there was a law which allowed the poor to pick from the harvest during certain times. …Kendy

Well there are so many. How about this one(Leviticus 25 :35) - remember a countrymen was a member of the religion thus any Catholic Hispanic is our countryman as used here. Aliens are other religions and temporaries are travelers.

" *If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. Do not take interest of any kind from him, but fear your God, so that your countryman may continue to live among you. You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God. *

Additionally there are the
(Exodus 23:10-11)(Leviticus 25:1-7)(Deuteronomy 15:1-6)

Exodus 23: "For six years you are to sow your fields and harvest the crops, but during the seventh year let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what they leave. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove.